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View Poll Results: Is the character of Jesus and God the Father the identical?

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  • Yes, their character is the same.

    18 90.00%
  • No, they are different in character.

    2 10.00%
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Thread: Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

  1. #76
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    Re: Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    But not revealing all his character doesn't mean his character is different. In what way is the character of Christ different than the character of God the Father?
    It doesn't matter if it means that his character isn't different than God's, it matters that it appears to be different. We all know that we are constrained by time, and can not see beyond the "now" of reality. To the mere man constrained by time, God has changed... When in reality it was us who sinned and caused God to react to it. He didn't change his character, at all, not one iota.

    But, for our benefit (and because it isn't time for the judgement, yet) God through Jesus showed us how to live righteously in the NT, whereas in the OT he merely told us how to live by the law.
    John 10 (KJV)
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

  2. #77
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    Re: Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    It doesn't matter if it means that his character isn't different than God's, it matters that it appears to be different. We all know that we are constrained by time, and can not see beyond the "now" of reality. To the mere man constrained by time, God has changed... When in reality it was us who sinned and caused God to react to it. He didn't change his character, at all, not one iota.

    But, for our benefit (and because it isn't time for the judgement, yet) God through Jesus showed us how to live righteously in the NT, whereas in the OT he merely told us how to live by the law.
    Did he only show us how to live or did he also reveal the Father to us?

    What do you make of this verse?

    Heb 1:3
    3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high
    NASU

    and what of this verse?

    John 14:8-9

    8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
    NASU
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  3. #78
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    Re: Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Did he only show us how to live or did he also reveal the Father to us?
    It was both, but the most important part of it was that God changed the law into righteousness through Jesus who was without sin, yet was still murdered. A perfect sacrifice. And if we believe that, if we believe what Jesus said, then we are saved. He shortened the entire law into one concept, one thing: Knowing that Jesus is Messiah, King of kings and Lord of lords.

    Then, once you've accepted that, you're obligated to follow the law and sin no more. That is what "changed". So yes, God's character appeared to change, but only for our benefit. He has ALWAYS had compassion on us, loving us. But because we are subject to time, he wasn't able to forgive us under the law, until Jesus became the perfect passover sacrifice.

    This is really about how God is in relation to where we are along a time line, when God has no time line. Ya see?

    What do you make of this verse?

    Heb 1:3
    3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high
    NASU
    It's an awesome promise in poetry! I love God's promises, they're so beautiful.

    and what of this verse?

    John 14:8-9

    8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
    NASU
    God is reaching out to us, personally, saying "Trust me, I'm real, and I do love you oh so very much. Please just trust me, and LIVE!"

    But those verses, what do they mean to you? I don't understand what you're getting at with this.
    John 10 (KJV)
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

  4. #79
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    Re: Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceegen View Post
    It's an awesome promise in poetry! I love God's promises, they're so beautiful.
    It's more than just a promise. It says something about Jesus that is awesome!

    Heb 1:3-4
    3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
    NASU

    It says that Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of God. Not a little bit like God, but exactly like God.

    That's why Jesus was able to say the following:

    John 14:9
    9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
    NASU

    Jesus is exactly like God in his nature/character. So if one knows Jesus, he will know what the Father is like. If you want to know God, then know and understand Christ. They have the same heart/character/nature.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  5. #80
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    Re: Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    It's more than just a promise. It says something about Jesus that is awesome!

    Heb 1:3-4
    3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
    NASU

    It says that Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of God. Not a little bit like God, but exactly like God.

    That's why Jesus was able to say the following:

    John 14:9
    9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
    NASU

    Jesus is exactly like God in his nature/character. So if one knows Jesus, he will know what the Father is like. If you want to know God, then know and understand Christ. They have the same heart/character/nature.
    I know.

    But you don't see what I mean, I can tell by the way you're trying to tell me something I already know. So slow down just a second, and re-read it. It'll make more sense.

    What I'm trying to say is that, God who is the definition of infinity, isn't limited by time. Therefore, He Does Not Change. But to us, under the burden of time, it seems as though God changed. He loves us and doesn't want to punish us, so provides us with a way out. But this is done in a timeline, and over time God changed the rules of the game from being "follow the law, and live." To "believe me, trust me, and live." God literally stepped into time, just to save us from being punished.

    The real question is, if God who is literally infinity, dwells with us in the flesh... Wouldn't that negate the entire reason for us being here in the first place? If God stepped into the real world without the benefit of being subject to what He created, He'd exist in every time all the time, and things would be totally funky right now. I think the universe would cease to exist. No, God had to do it within a certain frame of time according to His plan of salvation for us. That is what changed, that's it. He came personally to show us why He wrote the law in the first place: To save us from death by sin, from the snares of Satan.

    Does that make more sense, now? Because really, it doesn't make sense at all. Let me make it simpler: Yes and no, God is both the same always, and changes as He sees fit. Just asking the question you did, causes one to question things in the bible, and "Who am I to question God?" If God's character stays the same or changes is irrelevant, because I'm stuck in time at the moment. But I believe the promise, and that's all I need.
    John 10 (KJV)
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

  6. #81
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    Re: Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    It's more than just a promise. It says something about Jesus that is awesome!

    Heb 1:3-4
    3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
    NASU

    It says that Jesus is the exact representation of the nature of God. Not a little bit like God, but exactly like God.

    That's why Jesus was able to say the following:

    John 14:9
    9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
    NASU

    Jesus is exactly like God in his nature/character. So if one knows Jesus, he will know what the Father is like. If you want to know God, then know and understand Christ. They have the same heart/character/nature.
    Good post. If His character was different than the character of the Father than what He said in John 14:9 would not be true.

  7. #82
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    Re: Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ta-An View Post
    Or the underlined can read : very/true/exact Image (figure) of his substance, or the expression of his substance.
    Wycliffe New Testament
    What if character there actually means :Image as in Figure??
    The LORD is my Miracle

    G_d was gracious He has shown favor


    Hope is a seed
    God plants in our hearts
    to remind us
    there are better things ahead.
    -Holley Gerth


  8. #83
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    Re: Is the character of Jesus and the character of God the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ta-An View Post
    What if character there actually means :Image as in Figure??
    It doesn't change the meaning at all, imo. It doesn't just mean "image", it is an image that is an "exact copy".

    Jesus stated it this way

    John 14:9
    9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
    NASU

    If you see and know Jesus, then you see and know God. They are identical in their nature. Jesus is the exact representation of God the Father. How God would act as Judge is how Jesus would act as Judge and so on.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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