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Thread: Overcometh. When is that determined?

  1. #16
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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I have a greater goal in mind, and that would be, how all of this fits in relation to the 1000 years in Rev 20.


    I'm not trying to argue with you about this but I really don't understand the point you are trying to prove. Are you looking to see if all the letters link to the 1000 years or just these two? And how do you think overcoming as exhorted here in the letters is important? If I understood better I might be able help either confirm your line of reasoning or give you reason that it might not pan out (if you're open to that). The only letter I see that does link to the 1000 years is the one to Thyatira because the whole “to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers” thing. Christ Himself doesn’t begin to reign over the nations until He returns to reign for 1000 years.

    Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
    Rev 19:14-15 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.

    .... ironically tho, some conclude we already have power over the nations, even tho Revelation 2:25-29 seems to indicate otherwise, that this gets fulfilled after Christ has returned.
    What do you mean by power? In what form is it manifested? Is this idea that we currently have power over the nations what you are trying to prove or disprove?
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
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    And through the storm yet I will praise you
    Despite it all yet I will sing
    Through good or bad yet I will worship
    You remain the same, King of Kings

    You are the voice of hope; the anchor of my soul
    Where there seems to be no way, you make it possible
    You are the Prince of Peace amidst adversity
    My lips will shout for joy to you the Most High.
    "The voice of Hope" Lara Martin

  2. #17
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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old man View Post


    I'm not trying to argue with you about this but I really don't understand the point you are trying to prove. Are you looking to see if all the letters link to the 1000 years or just these two? And how do you think overcoming as exhorted here in the letters is important? If I understood better I might be able help either confirm your line of reasoning or give you reason that it might not pan out (if you're open to that). The only letter I see that does link to the 1000 years is the one to Thyatira because the whole “to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers” thing. Christ Himself doesn’t begin to reign over the nations until He returns to reign for 1000 years.

    Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
    Rev 19:14-15 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.


    What do you mean by power? In what form is it manifested? Is this idea that we currently have power over the nations what you are trying to prove or disprove?



    I'm looking for a pattern, plus looking for possible connections to other Scriptures, in order to determine when one has been considered to have overcome.

    Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
    Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
    6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
    7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Looking at verse 7, we see this being connected to Revelation 22:2 and Revelation 22:14. That should then give us the timing as to when one has been fully considered to have overcome. It would be when the new heavens and a new earth are. If this is correct, then the remaining 6 churches should automatically default to this same time period.


    Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
    Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
    11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


    Looking at verse 11, when can one be hurt of the 2nd death?

    Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    First of all, the timing is the return of Christ. How do we know that the overcomer isn't hurt of the 2nd death?

    Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    How then do we know the 2nd death is linked to Revelation 19:20 ?

    Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    This tells us that getting cast into the LOF equals the 2nd death. In Rev 19 we only see the beast and false prophet getting cast into the LOF at the time. The remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh...but are not seen getting cast into the LOF at that time. This would make these the of the rest if the dead in Rev 20:5.


    Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
    Revelation 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
    17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    Speaking of the remnant in Rev 19, notice verse 16...Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. This would have to be of the remnant in Revelation 19 that gets slain in verse 21.

    Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


    Verse 17 states...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    Compare that to the following.

    Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

    This tells us the timing is in relation to the 2nd coming, and that would be when the overcomer is then given a a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    This is a bit difficult to understand properly, but we have to remember that Christ is made up of a body of believers, but not that Christ is not an individual person tho. Of course He is.

    CONTINUE TO NEXT POST....

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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    CONTINUED FROM LAST POST....

    Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
    Revelation 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
    26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
    28 And I will give him the morning star.

    Notice verse 26 and 27...And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    Notice something interesting here...even as I received of my Father. If you look at Psalms 2, you should notice that it is Jesus who is given the heathens(nations) as an inheritance by the Father, and that Jesus is passing this same power on to the overcomers. If we then look at Rev 19, we can then see the timing to Revelation 2:26-27.

    Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


    Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
    Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
    4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
    5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


    Let's focus on verse 5, these parts...He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment...but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    The former is connected to the following.

    Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
    8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

    The latter is connected to the following.

    Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
    27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

    Revelation 3:5 gives us the timing for Luke 9:26-27. Obviously then, these in verse 26 and 27 would not be the overcomers in Revelation 3:5. But this would be when the overcomers are vindicated, and is related to the following in Matt 25.

    Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:


    Verse 30 says this...And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. This equals tasting of death, which is the same thing as the following.

    Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.





    Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
    Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
    12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


    I would think that verse 12 can easily be linked to the timing of the new heavens and a new earth, which can't occur until Christ returns..


    Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
    Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


    Verse 21 seems to be linked to the following.

    Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Which then can be linked to Matthew 25:31 and Revelation 20:4.

    In my opin then, it has clearly been shown va the 7 churches, one is rewarded an overcomer at Christ's return, which is the same time as the new heavens and a new earth. I also showed , via the church in Smyrna and via the church in Thyatira, as to why the 1000 years has to follow the return of Christ.

  4. #19
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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I'm looking for a pattern, plus looking for possible connections to other Scriptures, in order to determine when one has been considered to have overcome.

    Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
    Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
    6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
    7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Looking at verse 7, we see this being connected to Revelation 22:2 and Revelation 22:14. That should then give us the timing as to when one has been fully considered to have overcome. It would be when the new heavens and a new earth are. If this is correct, then the remaining 6 churches should automatically default to this same time period.
    Now you are once again trying to say that a person isn't considered to have overcome until the new heavens and new earth are ushered in. That's what I was disagreeing with you on earlier and you didn't understand why for some reason. I explained that the reason I disagreed is because a person is considered to have overcome at least at the time of their death, if not sooner. Then I gave you the example of Paul who considered himself to have overcome even before his death (2 Tim 4:6-8). But what you're saying contradicts that. What basis is there to think that someone is not considered to have overcome until the new heavens and new earth are ushered in? Haven't many believers already overcome? I asked that earlier and you agreed that they had. So, you seem to be contradicting yourself at times in this thread. Do you believe anyone has overcome yet or not? If not, why not?

    Keep in mind that I'm only talking about the timing of when a person has overcome and not necessarily about the timing of people being rewarded for having overcome. I think that's where you are getting confused in all this by assuming that a person is rewarded for overcoming immediately upon overcoming. No. There are still rewards to come for those who have already overcome.

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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    In my opin then, it has clearly been shown va the 7 churches, one is rewarded an overcomer at Christ's return, which is the same time as the new heavens and a new earth.
    I agree that overcomers will be rewarded at Christ's return and that the new heavens and new earth will be ushered in at that time. But is this thread about the timing of rewards for overcomers or is it about determining the point at which a person is considered to have overcome? I thought it was about the latter but all you're talking about in your last couple posts is the former.

  6. #21
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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I'm looking for a pattern, plus looking for possible connections to other Scriptures, in order to determine when one has been considered to have overcome.


    Wow that's quite a lot you put in those two posts. It may take me a day or two to sort through all this and give you my response. I hope you don't mind. I need a little time to think it all through.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    And through the storm yet I will praise you
    Despite it all yet I will sing
    Through good or bad yet I will worship
    You remain the same, King of Kings

    You are the voice of hope; the anchor of my soul
    Where there seems to be no way, you make it possible
    You are the Prince of Peace amidst adversity
    My lips will shout for joy to you the Most High.
    "The voice of Hope" Lara Martin

  7. #22
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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Now you are once again trying to say that a person isn't considered to have overcome until the new heavens and new earth are ushered in. That's what I was disagreeing with you on earlier and you didn't understand why for some reason. I explained that the reason I disagreed is because a person is considered to have overcome at least at the time of their death, if not sooner. Then I gave you the example of Paul who considered himself to have overcome even before his death (2 Tim 4:6-8). But what you're saying contradicts that. What basis is there to think that someone is not considered to have overcome until the new heavens and new earth are ushered in? Haven't many believers already overcome? I asked that earlier and you agreed that they had. So, you seem to be contradicting yourself at times in this thread. Do you believe anyone has overcome yet or not? If not, why not?

    Unfortunately I'm not being very clear. I would conclude that a person gets their rewards when the new heavens and a new earth are here, because they had overcome. So it's the rewards I'm meaning, with one of those rewards being having power over the nations. If that reward comes after Christ has returned, then what's the point if everyone is then immortal saints? That would only make sense if there are mortal nations for all eternity, or if it's meaning a period of time, such as 1000 years. If I had to choose between the two, the latter seems the most logical.


    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Keep in mind that I'm only talking about the timing of when a person has overcome and not necessarily about the timing of people being rewarded for having overcome. I think that's where you are getting confused in all this by assuming that a person is rewarded for overcoming immediately upon overcoming. No. There are still rewards to come for those who have already overcome.
    We would agree here then.

    And since I'm mainly focusing on the 7 churches and the rewards they get for overcoming, then my conclusions would be that they have to continue overcoming until the end, be it the end of their life, or be it the return of Jesus. And if they do that, they will then be rewarded the rewards of an overcomer, as outlined in the 7 churches.

    Just so I'm not misunderstood even further, if these in the 7 churches continue to overcome unto the end, then once they've died, they would be considered overcomers. But their rewards wouldn't come until later, as in when Jesus returns.


    Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

    Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
    28 And I will give him the morning star.


    Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


    Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


    Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


    These would be the rewards I'm referring to. To me, the pattern is the same in all cases. They overcome, continue to overcome, and if they do that to the end, then when Christ returns they are then rewarded with these rewards. That's the point I'm trying to make. If there is not a 1000 years that follows Christ's return, then some of these rewards seem odd, such as Revelation 3:21 for instance. Why does everyone need and get thrones if everyone is supposed to be equal at this point? BTW, I'm not saying the thrones are literal, or that they're not literal.

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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Unfortunately I'm not being very clear. I would conclude that a person gets their rewards when the new heavens and a new earth are here, because they had overcome. So it's the rewards I'm meaning, with one of those rewards being having power over the nations. If that reward comes after Christ has returned, then what's the point if everyone is then immortal saints? That would only make sense if there are mortal nations for all eternity, or if it's meaning a period of time, such as 1000 years. If I had to choose between the two, the latter seems the most logical.
    I'm mainly trying to discuss the point in which someone is considered to have overcome since that is what you indicated this thread is about, right? So, can we just focus on that for now rather than future rewards and so on?

    We would agree here then.

    And since I'm mainly focusing on the 7 churches and the rewards they get for overcoming, then my conclusions would be that they have to continue overcoming until the end, be it the end of their life, or be it the return of Jesus. And if they do that, they will then be rewarded the rewards of an overcomer, as outlined in the 7 churches.
    Well, everyone from those 7 churches is dead now so how could they continue overcoming while they're dead? They already have overcome. A person has to overcome while they're still alive or until they're dead so why would you speak in terms of someone still continuing to overcome even after they're dead? Or did you not intend to imply that?

    Just so I'm not misunderstood even further, if these in the 7 churches continue to overcome unto the end, then once they've died, they would be considered overcomers. But their rewards wouldn't come until later, as in when Jesus returns.
    Okay, so you would agree that those who were part of those 7 churches in the first century who overcame unto death already overcame long ago, right?

    Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

    Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

    Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
    27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
    28 And I will give him the morning star.


    Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


    Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


    Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


    These would be the rewards I'm referring to. To me, the pattern is the same in all cases. They overcome, continue to overcome, and if they do that to the end, then when Christ returns they are then rewarded with these rewards. That's the point I'm trying to make. If there is not a 1000 years that follows Christ's return, then some of these rewards seem odd, such as Revelation 3:21 for instance. Why does everyone need and get thrones if everyone is supposed to be equal at this point? BTW, I'm not saying the thrones are literal, or that they're not literal.
    Sorry, but I can't follow your logic here. I can't see how those verses indicate that the thousand years has to follow His return at all.

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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    I'm mainly trying to discuss the point in which someone is considered to have overcome since that is what you indicated this thread is about, right? So, can we just focus on that for now rather than future rewards and so on?

    The way it looks to me, overcoming is a process. One has to continually overcome unto the end. And if they do that, then they have overcome. So when they die, they're judged as overcomers.



    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Well, everyone from those 7 churches is dead now so how could they continue overcoming while they're dead? They already have overcome. A person has to overcome while they're still alive or until they're dead so why would you speak in terms of someone still continuing to overcome even after they're dead? Or did you not intend to imply that?
    Once they've made it to the end as an overcomer, nothing else to overcome after that. So no..of course they don't continue to overcome after they're dead. And as far as the disciples, apostles, etc, they have already overcome. But they haven't been rewarded as of yet, such as with the rewards we see associated with the overcomers of the 7 churches. Let me rephrase that now that I think about it. Maybe they've already received some of the rewards but not all of the rewards. But then again, you have to take the following into consideration as well.

    Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Okay, so you would agree that those who were part of those 7 churches in the first century who overcame unto death already overcame long ago, right?
    Of course. But they haven't received their rewards as of yet tho. But I'm not saying they wouldn't be in heaven tho.


    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Sorry, but I can't follow your logic here. I can't see how those verses indicate that the thousand years has to follow His return at all.

    I'll try and think how to make my point sound more logical then.
    Last edited by divaD; Apr 4th 2012 at 10:21 PM. Reason: added to try and clarify something

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    Re: Overcometh. When is that determined?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    The way it looks to me, overcoming is a process. One has to continually overcome unto the end. And if they do that, then they have overcome. So when they die, they're judged as overcomers.
    Okay. Thanks for clarifying your view. I agree with what you said here, though it does seem like one can potentially be considered to have overcome even before they die, as in the case of Paul (see 2 Tim 4:7-8).

    Once they've made it to the end as an overcomer, nothing else to overcome after that. So no..of course they don't continue to overcome after they're dead. And as far as the disciples, apostles, etc, they have already overcome. But they haven't been rewarded as of yet, such as with the rewards we see associated with the overcomers of the 7 churches. Let me rephrase that now that I think about it. Maybe they've already received some of the rewards but not all of the rewards.
    That's probably the case.

    But then again, you have to take the following into consideration as well.

    Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
    Yeah, this hasn't happened yet.

    Of course. But they haven't received their rewards as of yet tho. But I'm not saying they wouldn't be in heaven tho.
    I agree. I'm not saying they have received their reward yet, either.

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