Citizen
**
[and they think that they can also provide for that need and they can become as God...or even "gods"...meeting all their own needs and in no need of the Redeemer....for they believe they can redeem themselves...achieving their "righteousness" and "perfection" in and of themselves.]Originally Posted by quiet dove
Q.D; I cannot agree with you more, you are nailing the button on the head!!!
Road less travelled
I believe that Daniel 7/8 is where we learn about these symbols of beasts/horns/heads. In these chapters we can see that beasts represent large regional powers (empires) and horns represent smaller regions or divisions (countries). However we also see a trend that a horn can represent the leader of that country, so its only context that determines whether the country or its leader are being referred to. I believe the same applies to Rev 13 and Rev 17 to the beast, generally a beast represents a large regional empire, but when the context itself starts referring to this beast as a person then we can have the option to see the beast as the leader of that empire. The clue is normally when the text starts referring to the horn/beast being given a "mouth" or "eyes" like a man.
Of course prophecy is a subjective science, not an exact science, but this how the little horn and the beast appear to me, representing countries and often their leaders.
Citizen
**
[Of course prophecy is a subjective science, not an exact science, but this how the little horn and the beast appear to me, representing countries and often their leaders.]
DurbanDude; you are 100% correct in your assessment, i am going to cover the above also.
The ten kings to come falls in this same category as well, but i need to lead you there with a few thing in-between to grasp the total setup which Man-kind has drawn us Christians into.
Veteran
In context of the scripture it is Singular. The lawless one is a single person.
In the context of the scriptures He is plural."but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?"......."He" is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
"he" as in singular or plural? - are we then accepting that "he" is referred to in the singular tense?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Even so, come, Lord Jesus
I don't think that language necessitates that it's speaking of the beast as a man. That would be like saying Daniel 7:5 is speaking of the second beast as being a literal bear because it speaks of it having the mouth of a bear or like saying Rev 13:2 is speaking of the beast as a literal lion because it speaks of it having the mouth of a lion.
Road less travelled
When I read parts of Rev 13, some parts appear to me to be speaking of the empire, and some parts of the leader. It's a sense you get from the wording and context that an actual man is being referred to. Like I often say, interpretation of prophecy is subjective, scientific people like Newton didn't always get a grasp of it, despite their interest. So I am not saying it has to be read the way I read it, it just seems obvious to me that this beast empire is then described with human qualities and is then a man.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus
But it's also described with leopard, bear and lion qualities but that doesn't make it a leopard, bear or lion. That's the point I was trying to get across in my previous post but I don't know if you caught that or not.
Road less travelled
REV 13:2 And the beast (EMPIRE) which I saw was like unto a leopard (SIMILAR TO ALEXANDERS EMPIRE), and his feet were as `the feet' of a bear (INCLUDES IRAN), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (INCLUDES IRAQ): and the dragon gave him his power, and his throne, and great authority.
REV 13:3 And `I saw' one of his heads as though it had been smitten unto death; and his death-stroke was healed (THIS COUNTRY HAD BEEN DESTROYED, YET RE-APPEARED): and the whole earth wondered after the beast;
REV 13:4 and they worshipped the dragon, because he gave his authority unto the beast (EMPIRE); and they worshipped the beast (EMPIRE), saying, Who is like unto the beast? And who is able to war with him?
REV 13:5 and there was given to him a mouth (LEADER) speaking great things and blasphemies; and there was given to him (LEADER) authority to continue forty and two months.
REV 13:6 And he (LEADER) opened his mouth for blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, `even' them that dwell in the heaven.
REV 13:7 And it was given unto him (LEADER) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and there was given to him authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.
REV 13:8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him (LEADER), `every one' whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.
I cannot prove it, but this is the way I see Revelation 13, and I do associate this beast with the man of sin, or "antichrist".
Citizen
**
Revelation 17:1 [AND there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the GREAT WHORE (= HER THE WOMAN) THAT SITTETH UPON MANY WATERS = THE ECONOMY AND SEA TRADE IN BIBLICAL TIMES = NO PLANES NO TRAINS, ONLY SHIPS!!]
Is the Whore refered to in Revelations 17:1 the same Whore as refered to in the Old Testament in ISAIAH 23:14 to 18?
14 Howl, ye ships of Tarshish: for your strength is laid waste.
15 And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.
16 Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.
17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the Lord will visit Tyre, and "she" shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.
18 And "her" merchandise and "her" hire shall be holiness to the Lord: it shall not be treasured nor laid up; for "her" merchandise shall be for them that dwell before the Lord, to eat sufficiently, and for durable clothing.
Citizen
**
@quite dove[and they think that they can also provide for that need and they can become as God...or even "gods"...meeting all their own needs and in no need of the Redeemer....for they believe they can redeem themselves...achieving their "righteousness" and "perfection" in and of themselves.]
You mean like this?
THIS WOMAN IS UNDER THE IMPRESSION SHE IS GOD.
GEN 2:2. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Also on that day Hillary Clinton said, "I think it is absolutely clear to say, number one, that it's been American policy..................................
Finally, I believe that my next hundred days will be so successful I will be able to complete them in 72 days. (Laughter.) And on the 73rd day, I will rest."(Laughter.) ABC News
http://endtimesforecaster.blogspot.c...ian-state.html
The above link is where i found "her" statement, but i see it is not possible to find it at the above anymore, as the link will not open:
Citizen
**
@quite doveYou can find some suggestions to the symbolic value of the number 72 at this link:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...s_of_satan.htm
I am not so sure that this passage in Isaiah is applicable toward interpreting the whore of Revelation..God gave more prophecy regarding Tyre in Ezekiel 26:14, has come to pass. I really don't see this prophecy of Tyre being applicable toward supporting the economy being the whore of Babylon. I believe the whore of Revelation will indeed control the economy though....or at least controls(for a time anyway) in cahoots with the Beast empire
I can't get to the other link either, and this one is giving me a warning of bad rating and possibly dangerous....
Citizen
**
[not be treasured nor laid up;]
The similarity although there are two different approaches you will find in the above.
Citizen
**
The link below is a about what Hilary said, but i see they have midified her statement to be now applicable to a joke Obama made about resting on the 73rd day.
http://endtimesforecaster.blogspot.c...ian-state.html
Let me cut and paste the other for you here:
Properties of the number 72
Symbolism
Represent the number of the earth.
According to R. Allendy, it is "the differentiation, 2, in cosmic series, 70, producing the extreme multiplicity of the aspects, moreover interdependent between them (7 + 2 = 9)". It would express also the solidarity in the multiplicity (8 x 9) showing the harmony and the reciprocity in universal relations of things.
Sixty-twelve is considered as harmful in the apocryphal books of the Old Testament that speak about the 72 dead (Will of Abraham) and of the 72 sicknesses (Life of Adam and Eve).
Bible
The 72 disciples sent by Jesus. (Lk 10,1)
The 70 ancients accompanying Moses that received an outpouring of the spirit, plus the 2 absent ones which had remained in the camp, Eldad and Medad. (Nb 11,25-26)
The 72 races resulting from Noah. They are enumerated in chapter 10 of the Genesis. There are fifteen descendants by Japhet, thirty by Cham, twenty-seven by Sem. The list is arbitrary since the descendants of Peleg are not taken into account, and that the fathers are counted at the same time that their sons.
The 72 languages confused to the Tower of Babel.
General
According to the Rule in the Order of Saint-Saviour, given by the Christ to saint Brigitte of Sweden which lived from 1303 to 1373, the number of the members of the convent did not have to exceed 72: there had to be at the most sixty sisters and no more, accompanied by four deacons and eight laity.
In several mystical revelations, it is often question of the twelve Apostles and 72 Disciples of the last times, which will teach, preach and cure and this, in all the parts of the world on all the continents.
The current distribution of the Revelation book is 22 chapters, adopted since the 13th century. But such was not always the case. The oldest known division of the text is that the Greek commentator Andrew of Cesary (6th century) in 72 chapters. Although made with enough accuracy, this structuring could be easily reduced to 70, while putting in the same chapter, the numbers 60, 61 and 62 which constitute a whole, the millennial Reign. Andrew had wanted moreover group these 72 chapters three by three, in order to obtain 24 sections, corresponding to the 24 old mans. These 24 sections were completely arbitrary, and divided the texts at the wrong moment. Let us mention that the Codex Amiatinus and the Codex Fuldensis share the book of the Revelation in 25 chapters, and that some Latin handwritten find some from 22 to 48.
The 72 old men of the synagogue, according to the Zohar.
According to the visions of Ann-Catherine Emmerich, after his temptation in the dessert, Jesus is served by 12 superiors angels and 72 angels of less rank.
The Mahomet Prophet suggests to begin and to finish the meals by the salt because it is a remedy against the 72 sicknesses.
In the Gospel according to Philip and in the Gospel of the childhood of Jesus, it is written that one day, while he was youth, Jesus entered in the dyeing of Levi. He took 72 colors and threw them in the cauldron. Then Levi was in anger, but Jesus "take out them all white and tells: 'It is thus indeed that the Son of the Man is come as dyer'".
Gestation period of Laotseu.
Duration of the seasons according to Tchouangtseu.
The 72 disciples of Confucius.
It is the number of the Immortals Taoism.
The 72 companions of apotheosis of Houang-ti.
According to the Zohar, the degrees of the Jacob's ladder were to the number of 72.
The name of God is composed of 72 letters according to the cabalistic tradition. It comes from the mystical text (called Schemamphorash) of the Exodus, chapter 14 verses 19, 20 and 21 of which each one is composed of 72 letters in the original Hebraic text. It is this ineffable name of God whom murmured the great priest in the middle of the shouts of the crowd. It was replaced later by the sacred named, YHWH, than cabalists pronounce by spelling them one after the other: Yod, He, Waw, He. It is also by extraction and transposition of the three verses of the Schemamphorash that cabalists deduce the names of the 72 spirits (or angels) of the Cabal which they call the "explained divine name".
Lenain mentions the 72 intelligences governing the 72 zodiacal terms according to the Cabal.
The 72 Jewish translators (six of each tribe) that Ptolemy II, king of Egypt (283-246 before J.-C.), asked to Eleazar, great priest of Jerusalem, to send him to translate into Greek the books of Moses, written in Hebrew, for his library in Alexandria. It is the oldest Greek version of the Old Testament written in Hebrew. It is designated under the name of Septuagin because according to a legend these 72 translators would have produced separately the same translation without consulting each other and this in 72 days. This translation is recognized officially by the Church as well as the Vulgate. Note that according to others sources, it would be rather 70 translators, and not 72, from where the term of Septuagin.
Osiris was enclosed in a coffin by 72 disciples and accomplices of Thyphon.
The Chinese astrology has 36 beneficial stars and 72 malevolent stars, their sum constitutes the sacred number 108.
The 72 instruments of charities of Saint Benoit given in his rule on the spiritual art governing the monastic existence.
At the age of the puberty, the young Parsee received the investiture of the sacred cord Kucti made of 72 linens in symbol of the community.
The axis of the earth moves of one degree every 72 years compared to stars and to the vault of heaven.
Maspero mentions a fable of Egyptian origin where Mercury would have, according to the legend, played chess with the Moon and would have earned to him the 72th part of a day. And this 72th part of a day, multiplied by 360 (original number of day in one year) gives 5 days which have been added by the Egyptians and the Peruvians in their calendar.
Since a high antiquity, the Chinese divide the year in 24 parts of 15 days called Tsie-Ki, and each Tsie-Ki, subdivided in three, produces 72 part called Keou.
The Nostradamus prophet gives a precise date to the 72th quatrain of the second century: From the sky will come a great King of effrayor in July 1999.
The second world war lasted 72 months, from the 1st September 1939 when Germany started the war by invading Poland, until the solemn signature of the act of surrender of Japan, September 2, 1945.
The "sent�r" Persian has 72 cords, three by note.
The life duration of the ovule is 72 hours.
The mass of the Moon is the 72th of that the Earth.
The volume of Saturn is 72 times of that the Earth.
It is the average number of cardiac pulsations of the man per minute.
Percentage of water of which the human body is composed.
Gematria
The name of IEVE registered in a triangle gives as numerical value to each line 10, 15, 21 and 26, the sum giving 72:
I
IE
IEV
IEVE
Occurrence
The number 72 is used 4 times in the Bible.
In the Bible, 72 numbers written in their cardinal form are multiple of twelve.
The word curse is used 72 times in the Bible: 66 times in the OT and 6 times in the N
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