The Antichrist in Biblical perspective became prevalent when?-moved from BC

[Sadok]

[The Antichrist in Biblical perspective became prevalent when?] I have asked this question to many people in the past and the most common answer which came up when asked this question was - when God created mankind "Adam and Eve"

The other part that bothers me a lot when discussing the coming of the Antichrist, is when we start looking for a period; or person to appear with which we can associate such happening.

My perspective on the above is the following, in the case of "anti" abortionists, is it not fact that you would have to have a abortion firstly before you count have a "anti" abortion movement.

Would it then not be correct to draw the conclusion that the term "Antichrist" could have only come prevalent "after" the birth of Jesus Christ, and that we should see the coming of the Antichrists as a 2000yr old happening which is rather a movement than a individual person?

I John 2:
18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
22. Who is a liar "but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?"....... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

How many "people" and "movements" in the world denies Jesus Christ? - are they the Antichrist? - in what period will they arrive, or have they been prevalent for the last 2000yrs, but that we just did not notice them?

[quiet dove]

Hi Sadok, welcome..again

I am going to move this thread over into the End Time Chat forum...

[Sadok]

Hi Sadok, welcome..again

I am going to move this thread over into the End Time Chat forum...

Thank you quite dove!

[Adstars]

[The Antichrist in Biblical perspective became prevalent when?] I have asked this question to many people in the past and the most common answer which came up when asked this question was - when God created mankind "Adam and Eve"

The other part that bothers me a lot when discussing the coming of the Antichrist, is when we start looking for a period; or person to appear with which we can associate such happening.

My perspective on the above is the following, in the case of "anti" abortionists, is it not fact that you would have to have a abortion firstly before you count have a "anti" abortion movement.

Would it then not be correct to draw the conclusion that the term "Antichrist" could have only come prevalent "after" the birth of Jesus Christ, and that we should see the coming of the Antichrists as a 2000yr old happening which is rather a movement than a individual person?

I John 2:
18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
22. Who is a liar "but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?"....... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

How many "people" and "movements" in the world denies Jesus Christ? - are they the Antichrist? - in what period will they arrive, or have they been prevalent for the last 2000yrs, but that we just did not notice them?

You do not eliminate the concept of an end times Anti-chrst by having the concept of an anti-christ spirit. the Lawless One revealed in scripture shall be an Anti-christ and is also known as the Anti-christ.

So there are many anti-christs but there will be a final Anti-christ.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Sadok]

You do not eliminate the concept of an end times Anti-chrst by having the concept of an anti-christ spirit. the Lawless One revealed in scripture shall be an Anti-christ and is also known as the Anti-christ.

So there are many anti-christs but there will be a final Anti-christ.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[the Lawless One revealed in scripture shall be an Anti-christ]

"the lawless One" as in singular or plural?

"but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?"......."He" is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


"he" as in singular or plural? - are we then accepting that "he" is referred to in the singular tense?

[quiet dove]

[The Antichrist in Biblical perspective became prevalent when?] I have asked this question to many people in the past and the most common answer which came up when asked this question was - when God created mankind "Adam and Eve"

The other part that bothers me a lot when discussing the coming of the Antichrist, is when we start looking for a period; or person to appear with which we can associate such happening.

My perspective on the above is the following, in the case of "anti" abortionists, is it not fact that you would have to have a abortion firstly before you count have a "anti" abortion movement.

Would it then not be correct to draw the conclusion that the term "Antichrist" could have only come prevalent "after" the birth of Jesus Christ, and that we should see the coming of the Antichrists as a 2000yr old happening which is rather a movement than a individual person?

I John 2:
18. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
22. Who is a liar "but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?"....... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

How many "people" and "movements" in the world denies Jesus Christ? - are they the Antichrist? - in what period will they arrive, or have they been prevalent for the last 2000yrs, but that we just did not notice them?

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour......22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

we can gather from the above is that:
--There is "the" Antichrist, and there are many antichrists and there is the "spirit" of antichrist.
--The "many" antichrists" and "the" Antichrist, would both be of the antichrist "spirit".
--The antichrist "spirit" refers to "the lie" ...the "spirit" that promotes "the lie"
--And "the lie" of course being defined above:
--------------denial that Christ, (uncreated) God(Deity) the Son came in the flesh
--------------those who deny God the Father and God the Son both existing...and deny Their Truth
--------------those that deny and do not confess Jesus Christ, God the Son... was sent of God the Father

So in one sense, there could not be "antichrists" or a "the" Antichrist, prior to the cross. But, if we factor in to all of this the "spirit" of antichrist...the promoter of "the lie"...then we can see that it did begin in the Garden in that Satan was around and being the father of "the" lie(and lies)...he has been deceiving men to deny God the Father, and thus deny God the Son.

As far as when "antichrists" arrive, the above verses tell us they were already present at the time of the writing of the letter.(2:18)There were those who immediately denied Christ and fit the description given in the above passages. But "the" Antichrist" is another matter...he is not yet present and accounted for. ...but will fit the description of "antichrists", and be the grand daddy leader of those who did not have a love of the truth(2Thess 2:10). He will be given his("the" Beast) power by the dragon, who is Satan(Revelation 13:2)

[quiet dove]

[the Lawless One revealed in scripture shall be an Anti-christ]

"the lawless One" as in singular or plural?

"but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?"......."He" is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


"he" as in singular or plural? - are we then accepting that "he" is referred to in the singular tense?

"The" lawless one is singular....however, consider that all who deny Christ and rebel against God are indeed "lawless".

Just like one man "the" Antichrist/Beast(the lawless one) will come, so will there be many who have, are, and will follow the same father of lies(Satan) who are lawless and "antichrists)

[John 8:32]

Antichrist is a description of an attitude and way of life that is "against" Christ. In modern parlance, antichrist is confused with the Man of Sin...

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Rev 13 is also a good read right about here. This guy is called the antichrist, but that is actually a misnomer.

[Sadok]

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour......22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

we can gather from the above is that:
--There is "the" Antichrist, and there are many antichrists and there is the "spirit" of antichrist.
--The "many" antichrists" and "the" Antichrist, would both be of the antichrist "spirit".
--The antichrist "spirit" refers to "the lie" ...the "spirit" that promotes "the lie"
--And "the lie" of course being defined above:
--------------denial that Christ, (uncreated) God(Deity) the Son came in the flesh
--------------those who deny God the Father and God the Son both existing...and deny Their Truth
--------------those that deny and do not confess Jesus Christ, God the Son... was sent of God the Father

So in one sense, there could not be "antichrists" or a "the" Antichrist, prior to the cross. But, if we factor in to all of this the "spirit" of antichrist...the promoter of "the lie"...then we can see that it did begin in the Garden in that Satan was around and being the father of "the" lie(and lies)...he has been deceiving men to deny God the Father, and thus deny God the Son.

As far as when "antichrists" arrive, the above verses tell us they were already present at the time of the writing of the letter.(2:18)There were those who immediately denied Christ and fit the description given in the above passages. But "the" Antichrist" is another matter...he is not yet present and accounted for. ...but will fit the description of "antichrists", and be the grand daddy leader of those who did not have a love of the truth(2Thess 2:10). He will be given his("the" Beast) power by the dragon, who is Satan(Revelation 13:2)

We must not confuse "Satan" with the Antichrist, because the Beast is "not" the Antichrist and neither Satan.

Rev. 13:18 Here is wisdom.
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
for it is the number of a man; (= mankind)
and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (666)

In which context would you describe the simbolism of the Whore in Revelations 17:1; because only after we come to understand the simbolism of the Whore, will we understand the difference between Satan, the Beast and the Antichrist.

[quiet dove]

We must not confuse "Satan" with the Antichrist, because the Beast is "not" the Antichrist and neither Satan.

Rev. 13:18 Here is wisdom.
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast:
for it is the number of a man; (= mankind)
and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (666)

In which context would you describe the simbolism of the Whore in Revelations 17:1; because only after we come to understand the simbolism of the Whore, will we understand the difference between Satan, the Beast and the Antichrist.

I do believe the Antichrist, Lawless one, and Beast are the same entity, a man, possessed of, and loyal to Satan. Satan offered Jesus the kingdoms of the world if Jesus would bow to him...Jesus refused(of course)...However, the man who will be the Antichrist/Lawless one/Beast..will accept.

I do not believe the Whore of Revelation and the Beast are the same entity...The whore is symbolic for the false religion, which would be the religion of those who did not have love of the truth, and the deception they are in...."the lie".

The whore of Revelation = the false religion/lie/deception
The Beast = the Antichrist/Lawless one
There is also the kingdom for which the Beast rules over, the final Gentile world empire.

I have not said that Satan is the Antichrist, but that the dragon/Satan, gives his power to the Antichrist, who I agree, is a man...but he is a man under the power of Satan

At first the Beast uses the whore...but later destroys that established system...but that does not mean the lie changes...it means the Beast/Antichrist, will not share his space with this false religious system. There will be himself, who claims to be god...and everyone else who either worships him(receives his mark) or dies....or at least that is the choice he gives them...and though some will indeed survive that time....they still must make the choice, follow the AC or not.

[John146]

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour......22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

we can gather from the above is that:
--There is "the" Antichrist, and there are many antichrists and there is the "spirit" of antichrist.
--The "many" antichrists" and "the" Antichrist, would both be of the antichrist "spirit".
--The antichrist "spirit" refers to "the lie" ...the "spirit" that promotes "the lie"
--And "the lie" of course being defined above:
--------------denial that Christ, (uncreated) God(Deity) the Son came in the flesh
--------------those who deny God the Father and God the Son both existing...and deny Their Truth
--------------those that deny and do not confess Jesus Christ, God the Son... was sent of God the Father

So in one sense, there could not be "antichrists" or a "the" Antichrist, prior to the cross. But, if we factor in to all of this the "spirit" of antichrist...the promoter of "the lie"...then we can see that it did begin in the Garden in that Satan was around and being the father of "the" lie(and lies)...he has been deceiving men to deny God the Father, and thus deny God the Son.

As far as when "antichrists" arrive, the above verses tell us they were already present at the time of the writing of the letter.(2:18)There were those who immediately denied Christ and fit the description given in the above passages. But "the" Antichrist" is another matter...he is not yet present and accounted for. ...but will fit the description of "antichrists", and be the grand daddy leader of those who did not have a love of the truth(2Thess 2:10). He will be given his("the" Beast) power by the dragon, who is Satan(Revelation 13:2)

The word "the" before "antichrist" in 1 John 2:18 and 1 John 4:3 was added by the English translators of some English translations (and some don't have it) and I don't believe it should have been. I also don't believe "antichrist" should have been capitalized there. John went on to describe who antichrist is: anyone "who denies that Jesus is the Christ". And there are many antichrists who deny that Jesus is the Christ. Never does John only speak of one Antichrist in any of the passages that he speaks of antichrists or the spirit of antichrist. What people heard was coming was not an individual Antichrist but the spirit of antichrist and it came already in that time as seen in the many antichrists who had come at that time. The spirit of antichrist does not refer to an evil spirit or spirit of an evil human being but rather refers to an attitude of the heart that was against Christ. And the many antichrists around at that time had that kind of spirit just as many antichrists still do today.

If John was speaking of an individual Antichrist in 1 John 2:18 and 1 John 4:3 then how could his spirit have already been in the world back then? That makes no sense.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The spirit of antichrist, which manifests itself though many antichrists, was already in the world long ago. John never wrote of a future Antichrist who had not yet come.

[John146]

I do believe the Antichrist, Lawless one, and Beast are the same entity, a man, possessed of, and loyal to Satan.

How can the beast be a man when the beast already "was" at the time the book of Revelation was written? How do you interpret the following verse:

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[John146]

"The" lawless one is singular....however, consider that all who deny Christ and rebel against God are indeed "lawless".

Just like one man "the" Antichrist/Beast(the lawless one) will come, so will there be many who have, are, and will follow the same father of lies(Satan) who are lawless and "antichrists)

I think many, including yourself, miss the fact that something can seem to be referring to an individual person but instead is referring to mankind in general or a certain type of people in general. So, when you see a description of "the man of sin" or "the lawless one" you automatically assume that it's speaking of only one person. But that does not have to be the case. Let me give you a couple examples of what I'm talking about.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Is this passage referring to an individual "man of God" or referring to the people of God in general? The people of God in general, right? So, why can't "the man of sin" be understood similarly? Not as referring to the people of God in this case, obviously, but to sinners (unbelievers, the wicked) in general?

1 Cor 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Is "that wicked person" referring to an individual wicked person or wicked people in general? He was referring to anyone who was "a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner", right? Not just an individual wicked person. So, can you see how phrases like "the man of sin" and "the lawless one" can refer to wicked people in general rather than to an individual "man of sin" or "lawless one"?

[Sadok]

I do believe the Antichrist, Lawless one, and Beast are the same entity, a man, possessed of, and loyal to Satan. Satan offered Jesus the kingdoms of the world if Jesus would bow to him...Jesus refused(of course)...However, the man who will be the Antichrist/Lawless one/Beast..will accept.

I do not believe the Whore of Revelation and the Beast are the same entity...The whore is symbolic for the false religion, which would be the religion of those who did not have love of the truth, and the deception they are in...."the lie".

The whore of Revelation = the false religion/lie/deception
The Beast = the Antichrist/Lawless one
There is also the kingdom for which the Beast rules over, the final Gentile world empire.

I have not said that Satan is the Antichrist, but that the dragon/Satan, gives his power to the Antichrist, who I agree, is a man...but he is a man under the power of Satan

At first the Beast uses the whore...but later destroys that established system...but that does not mean the lie changes...it means the Beast/Antichrist, will not share his space with this false religious system. There will be himself, who claims to be god...and everyone else who either worships him(receives his mark) or dies....or at least that is the choice he gives them...and though some will indeed survive that time....they still must make the choice, follow the AC or not.

quite dove; thank you for answering to my question!

Did'nt many of us for many years read our Bible to sooth our conciences, or when we prayed to God we did this out of habbit/guilt and did not really believe that we would receive such blessings we asked for in prayer?

At a certain time in my life (2009) i was confronted to reflect seriously on my "wanabe" Christian life at a time when i really needed some clear answers as to the meaning of the scripture in Revelations.

Through the grace of God i became so blessed in so many ways afterwards and for which i am extremely grateful to Him!

[In which context would you describe the simbolism of the Whore in Revelations 17:1;]

I will keep it as short as possible to get to the point:

It is not possible for the average believer in Christianity to understand the scripture, and less so to understand Revelations unless you find a departure point.

My departure point was the following: Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Read the above thorougly; although there are many laws in the scripture, the above is not a law of God and there is no ultimatum set by Him - it is a choice of "mankind" on which he will be judged at the end of time; i.e. who was your real master on earth, - God or mammon!

On the 27th of April 2009 i asked God in prayer to open Revelations to me in "economic" perspective, and this is what He gave me during that night.

Revelations 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman....................

From the KJB Revelation 17 and 18: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/thebible.htm

There are TWO STAGES which will happen at the same time from a Revelations scriptural perspective: Authorized KJB: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/thebible.htm

FIRSTLY: WE WILL SEE THE ECONOMY GO TO WASTE WHERE EVERY COUNTRY AND ALL OF US WILL BE EFFECTED!!

AND there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the GREAT WHORE (= HER THE WOMAN) THAT SITTETH UPON MANY WATERS = THE ECONOMY AND SEA TRADE IN BIBLICAL TIMES = NO PLANES NO TRAINS, ONLY SHIPS!!
And the angel said unto me, Wherefore DIDST THOU MARVEL? I will TELL THEE the mystery of the WOMAN, and of the beast that carrieth HER, which hath the seven heads and TEN HORNS.
And he saith unto me, The WATERS which thou sawest, where the WHORE SITTETH, ARE PEOPLES, AND MULTITUDES, AND NATIONS, AND TONQUES.
And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with HER, shall bewail HER, and lament for HER, when they shall see the smoke of HER burning,
And the MERCHANTS OF EARTH shall weep and mourn over HER; for no man buyeth their MERCHANDISE any more:
The MERCHANDISE of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner VESSELS of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and SLAVES, and SOULS OF MEN.
The MERCHANTS of these things, which were made rich by HER, shall stand afar off for the fear of HER torment, weeping and wailing,
For in ONE HOUR so great riches is come to nought. And every SHIPMASTER, AND ALL THE COMPANY IN SHIPS, AND SAILORS, AND AS MANY AS TRADE BY SEA, STOOD AFAR OFF,
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy MERCHANTS were the GREAT MEN of the earth; for BY THY SORCERIES WERE ALL NATIONS DECEIVED.
And in HER (THE ECONOMIC EVILS) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
For God HATH PUT IN THEIR HEARTS TO FULFIL HIS WILL, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, UNTIL THE WORDS OF GOD SHALL BE FULFILLED = EARTHQUAKES, FLOODS, TORNADO'S, WINDS, WEATHER ETC.
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

And the WOMAN = ECONOMY which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Second part to follow, which happens in the same hour - the Ten Kings.

"THE WHORE SYMBOLISES THE ECONOMY OF THE WORD = MAMMON"

REVELATIONS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE AND HAS NO BARING ON PAST CIVILIZATIONS!

[quiet dove]

quite dove; thank you for answering to my question!

Did'nt many of us for many years read our Bible to sooth our conciences, or when we prayed to God we did this out of habbit/guilt and did not really believe that we would receive such blessings we asked for in prayer?

At a certain time in my life (2009) i was confronted to reflect seriously on my "wanabe" Christian life at a time when i really needed some clear answers as to the meaning of the scripture in Revelations.

Through the grace of God i became so blessed in so many ways afterwards and for which i am extremely grateful to Him!

[In which context would you describe the simbolism of the Whore in Revelations 17:1;]

I will keep it as short as possible to get to the point:

It is not possible for the average believer in Christianity to understand the scripture, and less so to understand Revelations unless you find a departure point.

My departure point was the following: Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Read the above thorougly; although there are many laws in the scripture, the above is not a law of God and there is no ultimatum set by Him - it is a choice of "mankind" on which he will be judged at the end of time; i.e. who was your real master on earth, - God or mammon!

On the 27th of April 2009 i asked God in prayer to open Revelations to me in "economic" perspective, and this is what He gave me during that night.

Revelations 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman....................

From the KJB Revelation 17 and 18: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/thebible.htm

There are TWO STAGES which will happen at the same time from a Revelations scriptural perspective: Authorized KJB: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/thebible.htm

FIRSTLY: WE WILL SEE THE ECONOMY GO TO WASTE WHERE EVERY COUNTRY AND ALL OF US WILL BE EFFECTED!!

AND there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the GREAT WHORE (= HER THE WOMAN) THAT SITTETH UPON MANY WATERS = THE ECONOMY AND SEA TRADE IN BIBLICAL TIMES = NO PLANES NO TRAINS, ONLY SHIPS!!
And the angel said unto me, Wherefore DIDST THOU MARVEL? I will TELL THEE the mystery of the WOMAN, and of the beast that carrieth HER, which hath the seven heads and TEN HORNS.
And he saith unto me, The WATERS which thou sawest, where the WHORE SITTETH, ARE PEOPLES, AND MULTITUDES, AND NATIONS, AND TONQUES.
And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with HER, shall bewail HER, and lament for HER, when they shall see the smoke of HER burning,
And the MERCHANTS OF EARTH shall weep and mourn over HER; for no man buyeth their MERCHANDISE any more:
The MERCHANDISE of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner VESSELS of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and SLAVES, and SOULS OF MEN.
The MERCHANTS of these things, which were made rich by HER, shall stand afar off for the fear of HER torment, weeping and wailing,
For in ONE HOUR so great riches is come to nought. And every SHIPMASTER, AND ALL THE COMPANY IN SHIPS, AND SAILORS, AND AS MANY AS TRADE BY SEA, STOOD AFAR OFF,
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy MERCHANTS were the GREAT MEN of the earth; for BY THY SORCERIES WERE ALL NATIONS DECEIVED.
And in HER (THE ECONOMIC EVILS) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
For God HATH PUT IN THEIR HEARTS TO FULFIL HIS WILL, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, UNTIL THE WORDS OF GOD SHALL BE FULFILLED = EARTHQUAKES, FLOODS, TORNADO'S, WINDS, WEATHER ETC.
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

And the WOMAN = ECONOMY which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Second part to follow, which happens in the same hour - the Ten Kings.

"THE WHORE SYMBOLISES THE ECONOMY OF THE WORD = MAMMON"

REVELATIONS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE AND HAS NO BARING ON PAST CIVILIZATIONS!

I would agree that there will be economic chaos and collapse...and many will no doubt die due to the consequences and result of collapsing nations...And I agree that we cannot serve God and mammon.

If we dig into mammon we find, as you know, that is treasure, or riches, and I think we would agree then that when your treasure is your riches your riches is your god, which would mean then that "serving" mammon" is fornication, or idolatry.

And fornication being used to mean idolatry.. isn't "serving mammon" and "committing fornication" basically the same thing, idolatry? Serving something other than God so thus serving a false god..putting belief, trust, and faith in other means than Jesus.

I really do believe that the fornication spoken of in Revelation, combined with the man empowered by Satan, because that man believed Satan's lies and accepted his offer, the fornication spoken of can be found all the say back in Genesis in Satan's lie to Eve..."you can be as God". The lie that knowledge leads to righteousness and than men can provide their own means.

But that is not to say that the idea of mammon is lost because men think that they can provide their own means/needs, which would include the riches to meet their mortal needs...but consider adding into that the spiritual aspect of what men seek, and that the fornication of Revelation involves that need of men, and they think that they can also provide for that need and they can become as God...or even "gods"...meeting all their own needs and in no need of the Redeemer....for they believe they can redeem themselves...achieving their "righteousness" and "perfection" in and of themselves.