Where all of Jesus commands for all the people, all the time, throughout the ages?

[John 8:32]

So, are you a sabbath keeping seventh day adventist or a picker and chooser?

This leads to nothing but strife. Over and out.

[Noeb]

Tea, what has been shown is that Jesus said to stop eye for an eye personally. Do you agree?

Do you mean it's for me personally, and not for you?

For everyone that wrongfully used eye for eye in how they treated their neighbor. That's not what eye for eye was about and they were wrong for using that way. Jesus corrected them. We know how to treat our neighbor and that eye for eye was not how the law said to treat our neighbor.

Yes, both measured in miles, but one is 60, the other is 80, that' s remarkably different, don't you agree?

No

Lust wasn't adultery in the O.T. Do you agree?

No

But now in the N.T. it is adultery, can you see the CHANGE?

No

Higher is EXTREMELY DIFFERENT.

No

I really have enjoyed checking these things out with you Noeb, and have grown to like you. It feels like you have a heart after the things of God. Keep it up you special person, I may be away camping in the freezing weather, til God wilingl Fri, but will try connect while I'm up there.

That's not camping......that's torture! I no like cold!

[tea]

Hi Noeb
Back from camping, had a great time, wasn't too cold, but I'm still far from home, and will be for a long time I guess.
You forgot to answer this one

I believe this command is for every disciple who follows Jesus, to obey all the time, and every time, do you agree?

I said

both measured in miles, but one is 60, the other is 80, that' s remarkably different, don't you agree?

You answer

No.

Please explain how 60 and 80 are the same. They are either the same or different, a 6 year old child could tell us that.


I said

Lust wasn't adultery in the O.T. Do you agree? You answer

.You answer

No

Please explain then where in this passage we're discussing where lust was the same in the O.T. as in Matt 5 ?


I said

Higher is EXTREMELY DIFFERENT.

.You answer

No

Now, if higher isn't different, why did you bother to use the word higher, surely you should have said they are the same, but you didn't. [ Post 141 ]

Jesus took the law higher

Please explain your perpetual use of the word No from your answers.

God bless

[Noeb]

Hi Noeb
Back from camping, had a great time,

You forgot to answer this one

I answered.

"For everyone that wrongfully used eye for eye in how they treated their neighbor."

but I see what you mean. It was incomplete. As I said earlier, even the law said not to hold grudges and love our neighbor. The law on our heart says the same. Kinda hard to imagine it saying eye for eye. So of course giving forgiveness is for all, for all time.

Please explain how 60 and 80 are the same. They are either the same or different, a 6 year old child could tell us that.

You said
"Yes, I agree with these words of yours Noeb;'Jesus took the law higher..' much higher, it has been changed, fufilled, higher is of a different hieght, DIFFERENT. I am glad we eventually agree Noeb."

I said
"60mph and 80mph are both measured in mph."

Jesus took one law (for example adultery), and showed what it always meant. He didn't change anything. He could not. He said he didn't come to change it. Adultery was always lust. The one law (measured 60 mph), taken higher (80 mph) is still measured in mph. Doing both makes you guilty of adultery (speeding).

Please explain then where in this passage we're discussing where lust was the same in the O.T. as in Matt 5 ?

Sin is knowing what is right and not doing it. This is measured by The Law on our heart, our understanding, and our action. Lusts for another has always been sin. Doesn't matter if it is in the passage. Your question isn't in the passage. I answered the question based on a holistic understanding of The Law and Sin in Scripture.

Now, if higher isn't different, why did you bother to use the word higher, surely you should have said they are the same, but you didn't. [ Post 141 ]

Hopefully my explanation in mph answers this.

Please explain your perpetual use of the word No from your answers.

What do you mean. You asked yes or no questions.

[tea]

What do you mean. You asked yes or no questions.

Yes, you are right, it's always better to know why someone says yes or no

"For everyone that wrongfully used eye for eye in how they treated their neighbor."

but I see what you mean. It was incomplete. As I said earlier, even the law said not to hold grudges and love our neighbor..

I see what you are saying, but the portion we are discussing says;'If someone strikes you...turn to him the other also', This isn't speaking of a neighbour only, but about anyone, can you see that?

The law on our heart says the same. Kinda hard to imagine it saying eye for eye. So of course giving forgiveness is for all, for all time.

Can you see though, that the O.T. law was different to the N.T. 'law'. In the O.T. one was allowed revenge! So if so, then surley you can't use the words;'for all time.'

You said
"Yes, I agree with these words of yours Noeb;'Jesus took the law higher..' much higher, it has been changed, fufilled, higher is of a different hieght, DIFFERENT. I am glad we eventually agree Noeb."

But then you said you don't agree, you said by answering 'No' above, that there is no difference in the height, but they were both the same. Now, which one is it, higher, or the same?

Jesus took one law (for example adultery), and showed what it always meant .

But if they were the of same meaning,[as you say they have] Jesus didn't need to do this, they already had all the understanding they needed. This is how you make out you believe by answering all those 'No' s above.

He didn't change anything. He could not. He said he didn't come to change it. Adultery was always lust. The one law (measured 60 mph), taken higher (80 mph) is still measured in mph. Doing both makes you guilty of adultery (speeding)..

Do you wish to change the 'No's or, you believe the O.T. law is the same as what Jesus taught?

[Noeb]

I see what you are saying, but the portion we are discussing says;'If someone strikes you...turn to him the other also', This isn't speaking of a neighbour only, but about anyone, can you see that?

Neighbor is fellow creature. Mankind. Anyone.

Can you see though, that the O.T. law was different to the N.T. 'law'.

No

In the O.T. one was allowed revenge! So if so, then surley you can't use the words;'for all time.'

No it did not. Show me where a person could take eye for eye. It was governments job for social peace and still is, even in the NT.

But then you said you don't agree, you said by answering 'No' above, that there is no difference in the height, but they were both the same. Now, which one is it, higher, or the same?

Both. The unit of measure is both higher and the same. The written said 60mph and the spirit of the law said 80mph. Just because tradition focused on 60mph doesn't mean it wasn't true for 80mph.

But if they were the of same meaning,[as you say they have] Jesus didn't need to do this, they already had all the understanding they needed.

Just because tradition focused on 60mph doesn't mean it wasn't true for 80mph. Carnal are blind. Meaning they cannot see what is there.

[tea]

Neighbor is fellow creature. Mankind. Anyone.

Well then, obey it, and if someone strikes you, turn the other cheek, and we'll have no issue. Is that ok, will you obey Him?


comentary of mt 5 38 geneva study bible



'Mt5:38 9 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:


(9) He shows ... that we may in no wise render evil for evil, but rather suffer double injury, and do well to them that are our deadly enemies. '

Show me where a person could take eye for eye.

This was a command by God in the O.T. Do you disagree? If you read there, you'll notice it does not say it is for the government.see Lev

[Noeb]

For the tenth time, yes I disagree. I don't see it, which is why I have asked you where.

[John 8:32]

Sin is knowing what is right and not doing it. This is measured by The Law on our heart, our understanding, and our action. Lusts for another has always been sin. Doesn't matter if it is in the passage. Your question isn't in the passage. I answered the question based on a holistic understanding of The Law and Sin in Scripture.

Silly me, I always thought it was...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

[RSouthward]

It has been great reading through the different responses and understanding my own views more clearly as a result. I believe that God sent Jesus, His only begotten son, to be the ULTIMATE sacrifice for our sins. When He died the curtain in the temple separating the Holy of Holies from the Holy area symbolized that we can now have an intimate relationship with God. When Jesus came he taught us the meaning of the law. I believe that Jesus' commands are for people of all times. He gave us the Holy Spirit (part of the Trinity and therefore ONE with God the Father and Jesus) to help us follow the Word and live in holiness. I believe that Jesus' commands may appear to be different than the Old Testament but are not. The law is written upon our hearts. We read the Word, listen to the Holy Spirit, and follow Jesus' ways because ultimately we have chosen and therefore yearn to follow Him. I do not believe that we are free from living the law. If this was the case following God into heaven would not be as hard as a camel walking through the needle of an eye. We are ALL in a state of refining and pruning into holiness. The interpretation of the law can appear murky at times, but when we seek God's Word, are lead by the Holy Spirit the nontruth in us can break free from our lives. This is also why we bring all thoughts captive before the Lord- seeking His council and wisdom through the Word.

I believe that all peoples are responsible for knowing the Truth of God- I believe this is why we are sent to be the light of the world. Even when we as Christ followers do not share God works. I think of the miraculous stories I have heard from our brothers and sisters in the Middle East. Many received dreams of Jesus and decided to follow him! God is at work and we have the privilege of being used by Him for the greater Kingdom.

[Noeb]

You always thought what was what John 8:32?

[MyCoolUsername]

For which one do you vote?

Which ones do you believe we should leave out?

Why were some of His commands different to the Old Covenant?

Is the Old Covenant better than the New?

Just a few interesting points of discussion.

Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever. Hebrews 13:8

The Mosaic law was for the Israelites ONLY. You will see no where in the bible where Gentiles obeyes the law BEFORE Jesus.

Through Jesus, EVERYONE is saved.

[tea]

If you read there, you'll notice it does not say it is for the government.see Lev

For the tenth time, yes I disagree. I don't see it, which is why I have asked you where.

Here Lev 24:18 'Anyone who takes the life of someone's animal must make restitution--life for life. 19 If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he has done must be done to him: 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth.'


Can you see now, it doesn't say the government?

[tea]

God is at work and we have the privilege of being used by Him for the greater Kingdom.

Is that why it is important to obey His commands all the time, everywhere?

[tea]

Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever. Hebrews 13:8

The Mosaic law was for the Israelites ONLY..

Are you saying we do need to obey Him now, and forever, or only sometimes?