Where all of Jesus commands for all the people, all the time, throughout the ages?

[Noeb]

No. I think the unregenerate need to speak for themselves, but seems like you and I agree?

I agree 100% with what Brother Mark said in post #26. Do you?

I posted what I did because the poll says "all the people", the unregenerate are part of "all the people" (unless Arrow meant otherwise and didn't clarify), and the unregenerate cannot be expected to do Jesus' commands. So the answer to that part of the poll is no. The unregenerate cannot do the righteousness that is in the law to the level and consistency a Christian can so it is not for them.

[awestruckchild]

I have just read this thread through.
I have a question.
When it says that we have been freed from the law of sin and death, what IS " the law of sin and death?
Isn;t it: whatever soul sins will die?

And HOW have we been freed from: whatever soul sins will die?
By being pardoned.

I don't understand how we get from there to: we are free from the law.
It only says we are free from "the law of sin and death."

[Noeb]

I have just read this thread through.
I have a question.
When it says that we have been freed from the law of sin and death, what IS " the law of sin and death?
Isn;t it: whatever soul sins will die?

Hi again awestruckchild. It is defined a few verses earlier.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

I don't understand how we get from there to: we are free from the law.
It only says we are free from "the law of sin and death."

Right. It never says free from the law and Romans 7 does not say the law died, as some think. Scripture says not under the law, but never says free from the law. It does say free from a law though. The law of sin in our members.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The husband and members are the old man that was crucified with Christ. Since our old man is dead we are free from the law of sin that leads to death.

It also says "died to the law"

Rom 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

The law is no longer death to us if we walk after the Spirit and do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Is that the same as free from? Some argue that, but if it were true you could continue in sin and not die.

Not under the law means we are not under the old, we are under the new, which delivers us from the law in our members, allowing us to fulfill the righteousness in the law.

That's how I see it.

[awestruckchild]

In here, we are talking about one main thing so far.
It's about Jesus commands, I put them in above for you to see what's being said.

Are you saying they are different, or not?

Tea, I'm sorry to intrude on your conversation here, but did you send me an email?
It appears I can neither send you a pm, nor post on your profile page, so I had to ask you here.

[episkopos]

I have just read this thread through.
I have a question.
When it says that we have been freed from the law of sin and death, what IS " the law of sin and death?
Isn;t it: whatever soul sins will die?

And HOW have we been freed from: whatever soul sins will die?
By being pardoned.

I don't understand how we get from there to: we are free from the law.
It only says we are free from "the law of sin and death."

When we walk in the Spirit...we don't sin. The law remains as a gauge to show us whether we are actually walking in the Spirit or not.

[episkopos]

Yes, Jesus' Commands were for all people, and all times, except, as far as I can tell, one.

This command was only meant for the Apostles, and for only that moment in history:

MT 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

This is exactly backwards. Jesus taught His disciples His commands....but the "all" who lift the sword...is for all.

Even though we have it backwards in our day...seeing the masses that claim to be Christians, it was not supposed to be so. True Christians are a very small obscure group that have laid down their lives for God and each other. They have nothing to do with this world except to be beacons of the life to come.

[Lily]

Leviticus 24:20
fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured.

Matt 5:38 'You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.'

Are there any others besides this one?

Those verses, and others like it, in Leviticus were meant to teach us that God is a just God and demands justice.

But He is also patient, kind, loving and merciful, and that was manifested in Jesus. Jesus was telling us to manifest those things in ourselves as well. Christ has come and justice will be meted out, because God is just, but not by us. We're to love others as Jesus loved us that they, too, might come to know him and be spared the wrath of God's justice.

I think those commands in Leviticus (as well as some others) were only for the Israelites of that day, but the intent was to teach them (and us) about God's justice. They, however, had no more business dealing with transgressors in those days (except that God had told them to) than those to whom Jesus had said "You who is without sin may cast the first stone."

So, I think Jesus commands were for all the people, all of the time, througout the ages. And even when they had to deal out justice on commandment from God, I would think He expected them to show mercy and compassion, at least in their hearts, and not be self-righteous about it.

[John 8:32]

Leviticus 24:20
fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured.

Matt 5:38 'You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.'

Are there any others besides this one?

The actual application (and we have the Jews testimony for how it was carried out) was that if you caused someone to lose the use of say, a hand, you were responsible to make up for any losses caused by losing that hand.

The subject of beard trimmings comes up occaisionally and I bring it up as an example of how it was applied compared to how some misinterpret. The command is...

Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

The command was not to round the cutting of your hair in honor of the sun-god as the Egyptians did. Same with the beard. Todays application is do not use symbols of false gods today to honor God. He finds that detestable.

[Arrow]

Jesus didn't do away with eye for an eye.

I agree 100% with what Brother Mark said in post #26. Do you?

I posted what I did because the poll says "all the people", the unregenerate are part of "all the people" (unless Arrow meant otherwise and didn't clarify), and the unregenerate cannot be expected to do Jesus' commands. So the answer to that part of the poll is no. The unregenerate cannot do the righteousness that is in the law to the level and consistency a Christian can so it is not for them.

I will answer here for myself to clarify, and I would have changed it by editing the OP but I am not allowed.

In a sense, Jesus will judge the Christians by His word.

All the people actually means all the Christians, and I know I should have made it clearer in the OP.Does this change your answer?

Do you agree with Mark, that;' Jesus didn't do away with eye for an eye.'? I disagree, I believe He did away with this specific law.

[Arrow]

Commandment. Jesus is correcting misuse of the law and wrong teachers. Leviticus 24 is social, not personal. Jesus shows how to take it to a personal level the right way. In Leviticus 24 it's

Lev 24:15 And speak to the people of Israel, saying, Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin.
Lev 24:16 Whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death. All the congregation shall stone him. The sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.
Lev 24:17 "Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death.
Lev 24:18 Whoever takes an animal's life shall make it good, life for life.
Lev 24:19 If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him,
Lev 24:20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; whatever injury he has given a person shall be given to him.

In Matthew 5 it's

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.

Do you think killing and loss of property can be compared to a slap and sue. The loss of property is completely different than being sued.

Jesus was consistent.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


Are these encouragements?

Are you saying these these words of Jesus are not commandments but rather encouragements? Do we need to obey them?

[Arrow]

"Why were some of His commands different to the Old Covenant?"

Can you give a example ?

I see some examples are given, is this sufficient for now?

[Arrow]

Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

25Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Is this a commandment ?

I say yes, all these are commandments.

My argument is that Jesus did not change not one of God's commandments.

Based on what theory please?

[Arrow]

Who has made an oath and not kept it? The law doesn't say we must make oaths, it says don't do it and not keep it. He's taking is to its conclusion (filling up the law, showing it perfectly)

You indicate then , that it is a commandment?

[Arrow]

Because I am referring to two different things. The regulations are not the standards. For instance, when God said to offer a lamb for sacrifice for worship.

This is not about sacrifice in here.I think you are missing the point. Did Jesus mean those things in Matt 5? Are they for us to obey today?If Jesus said opposite to what the law said an eye for an eye, how can you say they have stayed the same?

[Arrow]

These commandments are for all disciples for all time!

Agree! Except for the one about "love as he did". That was pretty much a new one taught in the new covenant. The rest were taught in principle in the old covenant. Those things are for all time both new and old.

Where were the teachings of Jesus in Matt5 taught in the old covenant?