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Thread: I just don't get this....

  1. #16
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    Re: I just don't get this....

    If you are living in sin and you don't repent then I can say to your face "You're going to hell".

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Roll View Post
    What I am saying is that no bode can say that you are going to hell or that you are going to heaven. God is the ONLY one that can say that. Man can judge on man's work but they can't judge on which way you or any one of us are going. Judgment belongs to God.
    Amazzin

    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!




  2. #17

    Re: I just don't get this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Roll View Post
    What I am saying is that no bode can say that you are going to hell or that you are going to heaven. God is the ONLY one that can say that. Man can judge on man's work but they can't judge on which way you or any one of us are going. Judgment belongs to God.


    I agree and believe ultimately that to be the case. Also, there have been numerous discussions here in the past where that same idea and belief is almost unilaterally shared.

    But what about when someone we know lived a life of sin and rebelled to no end. Do we tell others or give the false hope that just somehow maybe they "got in" so to speak or that God had mercy and they were saved in the last moment or do we boldly, not rudly or in arrogance mind you, but boldly in love say that there is a "big chance" that they have been condemned to hell? And while we may not know 100%, we know by their fruit and lifestyle that they according to what the Word of God teaches did not probably enter into God's rest.


    Think of all the funerals across the world where people are told all the time that so and so are home with the Lord and you knew that person very well and know in your heart that they were not saved. Do you just go with the flow or voice your concerns to others whom you know and begin to tell them that we don't know for sure, but based on the fruit and way this person we knew and loved lived, probably isn't with the Lord? Not maybe voluntarily, but if the discussion arises and your opinion of the matter is asked of.





    I know I've stepped into a mine field, but I hope some will at least see where I'm coming from and can share in the same concerns and discouragement when pondering these things.



    In Christ's Love

  3. #18
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    Re: I just don't get this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Roll View Post
    No, what I am trying to say is that no body can say that I am going to heaven or hell and that it blongs to God only. As I said in my first post, there is a passage that says;

    Deuteronomy 1:17 Do not show partiality in judging; hear both small and great alike. Do not be afraid of any man, for judgment belongs to God. Bring me any case too hard for you, and I will hear it.

    It states that judgment blongs to God not to man.

    What I am concerned about is that this one person is about to become a pastor of a church and I really don't want to attend there because of the judgment of man not God.
    Two things.

    First, my first reply was in response to your question about whether not having a certificate meant you weren't really married and going to hell. As I said, there is no scripture to support that belief.

    Secondly, the Deuteronomy scripture you are using is SOOOOO out of context of your point about God judging a person's eternal resting place. Please read AT LEAST the whole first chapter of Deuteronomy so you can see what that is referring to.

  4. #19

    Re: I just don't get this....

    First of all, try to understand that the couple I am talking about have a disability to where they can not work.

    Second, they are christians.

    Third, a Pastor of a church married them.

    Fourth, in Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

    Fifth, it is not mans place to say who is going to hell or who is going to heaven. Because it states in John 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. [fn] He will come in and go out, and find pasture.

    In other words, John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    I believe that Jesus died on the cross for my Sins and He bought me and set me free.

    If anyone wants to say anything negitive, just remember this question. What Would Jesus Do????

  5. #20
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    Re: I just don't get this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Roll View Post
    No, what I am trying to say is that no body can say that I am going to heaven or hell and that it blongs to God only. As I said in my first post, there is a passage that says;

    Deuteronomy 1:17 Do not show partiality in judging; hear both small and great alike. Do not be afraid of any man, for judgment belongs to God. Bring me any case too hard for you, and I will hear it.

    It states that judgment blongs to God not to man.

    What I am concerned about is that this one person is about to become a pastor of a church and I really don't want to attend there because of the judgment of man not God.
    The one with the disability, living with a woman who is not legally his wife, is about to become a PASTOR?? How can he accept that title, when he is living in deceit and not legally married?

    If this is the one about to become a Pastor, then no...I would not be part of his congregation. Never!
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

  6. #21
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    Re: I just don't get this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggindeeper View Post
    The one with the disability, living with a woman who is not legally his wife, is about to become a PASTOR?? How can he accept that title, when he is living in deceit and not legally married?

    If this is the one about to become a Pastor, then no...I would not be part of his congregation. Never!
    ..and anyone in his congregation accepting this arrangement condemns themselves too by the simply act of accepting
    Amazzin

    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!




  7. #22

    Re: I just don't get this....

    Quote Originally Posted by amazzin View Post
    ..and anyone in his congregation accepting this arrangement condemns themselves too by the simply act of accepting
    Sometimes I can't read you or others for that matter so, are you adding to this statement as in agreement or as a sarcastic addition? Don't take offense, just asking for clarification. Thanks.

  8. #23
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    Re: I just don't get this....

    Nope, I am adding to the statement. Thanks for asking. Sometimes we think our writing style is a given
    Amazzin

    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!




  9. #24

    Re: I just don't get this....

    Quote Originally Posted by amazzin View Post
    Nope, I am adding to the statement. Thanks for asking. Sometimes we think our writing style is a given



  10. #25

    Re: I just don't get this....

    Does anyone in here understands about disabilities? If you do not, then walk a mile in thier shoes. Try to understand that the couple I am talking about is a friend of mine and both of them have disabilities where they can not hold down any jobs. If they get legally married, then they would be on the streets, asking for food, money, and they might be your next door neighbor where they might be comming over all the time begging you for this or that. If you think that they should get legally married, then why don't all of you take a good look at a couple that is in your church that have disabilities and ask them this; "If you and your partner have a disability and both of you make 1,800.00 a month and have insurance. People keep on saing that you should get 'legally married' and loose EVERY THING and live on the street. Would you?"

    There are a lot of people that think a disability is nothing.

    If you can see, try to use a walking stick and read brail. If you han hear, plug your ears and try to listen to TV or the radio or carry a conversation. If you can walk, try to get around by NOT useing your legs. Try all of this BEFORE you put someone else down that has a disability.

  11. #26
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    Re: I just don't get this....

    We must always measure this up to God's standard. What you describe is heart wrenching but It's still wrong. How can God move if unrighteousness is all we care about?. God is willing to show himself worthy and able to exceedingly more but they are hindering that by living willfully in sin
    Amazzin

    Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

    CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!




  12. #27

    Re: I just don't get this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Roll View Post
    If you can walk, try to get around by NOT useing your legs. Try all of this BEFORE you put someone else down that has a disability.

    I would certainly pray for them and would not hold back my own convictions on the matter. I would hope to be bold and pray with them and encourage them to pray ferverently about it.

    _______________________________________________

    The rest here is to everyone and myself in general.

    Doing the right thing is REALLY HARD. Here's a cliche' but truth nevertheless, we are naturally attracted to satisfying the desires of the flesh. When someone wrongs us, we want to become angry and we have feelings of wanting to avenge that...a lot of us may say we don't, but we do. We may not necessarily act on it, but thinking it even temporay is wrong and we should take those thoughts captive and make them obedient to Christ. In other words, trust God at that EXACT moment, not hours later, because we have let it nest and thus we have sinned. Just like forgiveness, if we're wronged, we must forgive right then, not hours, days or weeks later after we have thought about it and stewed over it. Because let's be honest, when we do that, even with very simplistic things, we sin because we are thinking some dreadful things. And even simply being upset with someone and being mad at them, we are sinning....we can't be loving them when we are doing that, right? Who doesn't get upset with people or frustrated? I'm not saying we don't, I'm saying when we do, we have to make those thoughts and feelings obedient to Christ right then so we don't get tempted and sin by remaining angry. It's hard, believe me, I have grieved the Holy Spirit and I am ashamed, I take matters into my own hands and think, if I can just remain ticked off long enough and go over and over in my head that I was right and they were wrong then I can get justice through venting out loud to myself.

    Do what's right and risk the consequences. Would we be too proud to beg for food or money? Probably. And that makes us sinning because we don't swallow are pride and trust God. What's wrong with asking for help? If it's becasue we are lazy and don't want to work or do it ourselves, then it isn't pride, so much as it's guilt because we know we are guilty of being lazy...then we are sinning also in that.


    Should a husband and a wife who are Christians get a divorce because they could get more money a month because of their recent disabilities? I mean if they are committed to each other, then that divorce isn't really a divorce in God's eyes but only according to our laws, right? I don't believe so. If we could justify not getting married to keep income then we should be able to justify getting divorced.

    It's about meekness. Not being a door mat, that's not what meekness is. If someone lies and steals from me, of course they are wrong, BUT, I HAVE NO RIGHT AT ALL to become angry(it's hard, yes) but God wants us to trust HIM ALONE to carry that burden. He wants us to TRUST HIM FULLY in EVERYTHING.


    Jesus was awesome! How can we ever live up to how He carried himself in everything? It's hard, and it doesn't have to be. We fail at it because we, if we're honest, don't trust the way we should. It doesn't mean we are going to be perfect and not be tempted to be weak and possibly succumb to tempation, but it is very possible or God's a liar. We know that's not true because Jesus said Satan is the father of all lies. I pray that I am understood and not misunderstood with what I've posted.




    In Christ's Love

    ClayInHisHands

  13. #28
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    Re: I just don't get this....

    ClayInHisHands, you said this:

    Here's a cliche' but truth nevertheless, we are naturally attracted to satisfying the desires of the flesh. When someone wrongs us, we want to become angry and we have feelings of wanting to avenge that...a lot of us may say we don't, but we do. We may not necessarily act on it, but thinking it even temporay is wrong and we should take those thoughts captive and make them obedient to Christ.
    I can say in all honesty that I don't ever get angry and want to avenge someone who has wronged me. I really don't. I feel hurt and pained that the person has wronged me, but I'm being as honest as I possibly can....I don't want to 'get even'. So to say that is painting all of us with a broad brush and it really is not true, because we DON'T always ALL want revenge. We really don't.

    Just thought you should know that just because you get angry and have thoughts of 'avenging', it does not mean we all do.
    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

  14. #29

    Re: I just don't get this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Diggindeeper View Post
    ClayInHisHands, you said this:



    I can say in all honesty that I don't ever get angry and want to avenge someone who has wronged me. I really don't. I feel hurt and pained that the person has wronged me, but I'm being as honest as I possibly can....I don't want to 'get even'. So to say that is painting all of us with a broad brush and it really is not true, because we DON'T always ALL want revenge. We really don't.

    Just thought you should know that just because you get angry and have thoughts of 'avenging', it does not mean we all do.
    I was misunderstood to a degree.


    When I say avenge I do not mean necessarily in a direct way either. Anger can be directed at someone in a subtle way. I can not, nor do I speak for you or everyone, so let me rephrase and say there 'might be alot of us' that do these things.



    In your opinion, would someone be sinning if they did as I said here....



    I take matters into my own hands and think, if I can just remain ticked off long enough and go over and over in my head that I was right and they were wrong then I can get justice through venting out loud to myself.

    I don't mean I sit there and say I'm going to remain ticked off. I'm merely speaking how I've resolved after the fact in reflection of my actions that I act this way and others may act this way subconciously. And if we do this subconsciously then I believe that it is a sin and it is a deeper matter of what may be in my heart that I'm not aware of and then I am or others have had light shined upon this behavior/way of thinking by the Holy Spirit to show that we are sinning.

  15. #30
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    Re: I just don't get this....

    This is a difficult situation to be sure, but if they are believers then they know that nothing is impossible with God.
    Personally I think they should have been in serious prayer about this, and I also believe that if they do the right thing, and are obedient to God, He will supply their need.

    It's hard, I know, and I don't doubt they truly love one another, but I don't think they should be living together without a legal marriage license.

    That's my opinion.

    Jeanne

    "He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it". ~ Martin Luther King Jr.

    "If we ever forget that we are ONE NATION UNDER GOD, then we will be a nation gone under" ~ Ronald Reagan

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