That which is perfect

[Watchman]

Yet why didnt the author of John say Christ?
Instead he used the word - logos... as the essential word or doctrine of God.

God gave his doctrine for us to learn and live by, that doctrine is in effect God.
This doctrine has been with God for eternity past..
Christ is the key stone of that doctrine, for Christ is not only doctrine, but he delivered doctrine.

That doctrine of and from Christ is from eternity past.. It has been recorded in the scriptures... the bible is a letter from God on his doctrine,

If a King gives a letter to be followed.. that letter is in effect the King.
If you disregard his letter ..his wrath will soon follow and one would find their head dangling from the city wall for disobedience..

Now here Christians are bouncing along in 2012 saying "we do not need scripture we gotz the spirits.." .. it is in effect disregarding the letter God went to so much effort to provide. And we are starting to see his wrath upon the client nation of the USA, where this attitude seems to be most prevalent,

You are reading your pov into scripture. We are plainly told in the Revelation of Christ WHO the Word of God is...and it is NOT the scriptures. The scriptures were NOT given to us to use as a 'How to be a Christian' manual. They were given to us to testify of Christ. When you say the scriptures are God, or that their teaching is God, you make scripture an idol. The teachings of the scriptures are not God...and they do not purport to be God. Sheesh.

[Watchman]

We as Christians are to keep the doctrine of Scripture.
Thru that doctrine we hear the spirit and learn how to live the christian life.

Swing and a miss. Jesus said His sheep hear His voice...no wiggle room.

I feel what you call 'the spirit' is actually a excuse to live by emotion.
Why do you allow the weak link of emotions into a otherwise solid life style.
We are to think and breath this doctrine of Christ, which is taught thru scripture.
The mind set you seem to be promoting is one of weakness with out the accountability of scripture.

What you 'feel' is emotion. Jesus' had emotions in their proper place. You have them relegated to the back pews, to silent with the women. The pov I'm promoting comes directly from scripture...something you seem incapable of doing without injecting your own eisegetic preconceived notions. You are the one promoting weakness, because you believe your mind is capable of something which it is not. The same Holy Spirit who breathed out the NT writings also breathed out the OT writings. By your notion, the Jews should have been being led by the Spirit, since they were 'hearing' Him via the scriptures. You neuter God, and do not even realize it.

It can lead to a mind set of .....
"Oh the spirit told me to do this or that, who are you to say that is wrong."
or a mind set
"I dont need scripture I have the spirit"
The doctrine of scripture is solid in its accountability, it is a mirror in which we can judge our spiritual life.

Absolutely not. The scriptures are not a mirror, and we cannot, sans God's help, properly judge ourselves. He is the only ONE who discerns the thoughts and intents of our hearts. You objected to being called fleshly, yet with each post you loudly and proudly proclaim that you have abilities not given to us. The scriptures testify against you.

I am testing your doctrine not your scripture.

Given the method you are using, you can only arrive at incorrect conclusions. Sorry, I didn't make the rules. God did....whether you like them or not. You are spreading heresy.

[Colight]

You are reading your pov into scripture. We are plainly told in the Revelation of Christ WHO the Word of God is...and it is NOT the scriptures. The scriptures were NOT given to us to use as a 'How to be a Christian' manual. They were given to us to testify of Christ. When you say the scriptures are God, or that their teaching is God, you make scripture an idol. The teachings of the scriptures are not God...and they do not purport to be God. Sheesh.

And you are not reading what I am stating.

I have over and over stated the issue is doctrine, doctrine is the thinking of God.

In the OT when Israel strayed for the DOCTRINE Of God they was disciplined.
We are to think this doctrine of God, apply it to our life.

2 John 1
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

The doctrine of Christ is in effect Christ.
We are to keep in the doctrines of Christ.

These doctrines are contained in scripture...

Why is that so troubling to you.

[Watchman]

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[Colight]

. By your notion, the Jews should have been being led by the Spirit, since they were 'hearing' Him via the scriptures. You neuter God, and do not even realize it.

The Jews of the did not have the doctrine we have today, nor was their battle the same spiritual battle we face today.

Absolutely not. The scriptures are not a mirror, and we cannot, sans God's help, properly judge ourselves. He is the only ONE who discerns the thoughts and intents of our hearts. You objected to being called fleshly, yet with each post you loudly and proudly proclaim that you have abilities not given to us. The scriptures testify against you.

Yet James is using the scriptures of his day as a mirror,.

James 1

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Side Note.. notice it says doer of the word, not doer of the spirit...

Hebrews also support the use of the word as if it was a mirror to gauge our self in, for it discerns the thought and intents of our hearts,...

Hebrews 4

12 “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

Paul even used a example of the word as a Mirror, understanding the doctrine for the Church was not complete in its revelation. Therefore he called the mirror dim.


1 Cor 13

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is Complete ( the complete doctrine of the Church, which is contained in scripture) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Even David found delight in the Law of the Lord aka the doctrine of God.
Psalm 1

1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night..
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

David had delight in the use of that doctrine in his thoughts day and night...and found growth and nourishment from it.
We too should bath our self in the doctrine in scriptures day and night, for in those scriptures is the doctrine of God

Psalm 119

105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

The doctrine of Scripture is a guide for us, a light for us in darkness.
Those who say the spirit will guide us, ignore the fact the spirit guides thru the doctrine in scripture.


Now what exactly is the thought and intent of the doctrine you are stating, for it in no way aligns with scripture when it degrades scripture from its proper role

Given the method you are using, you can only arrive at incorrect conclusions. Sorry, I didn't make the rules. God did....whether you like them or not. You are spreading heresy.

Speadin heresy??..
That sounds really legalistic,,

[Watchman]

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[Watchman]

Bump for possible further discussion.

W

[Watchman]

Cliff's Notes (by Andy )

1 Corinthians 13:10; 15:22-24, 51-54 But when that which is perfect (complete) has come, then that which is in part will be done away...For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end (completion), when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power... Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Paul actually defined the perfect for us. Only when all is complete will we know as we are fully known. Only when we are like Him will we see Him face to face.

blessings,

Watchman