Doesn't Luke 17 place the AOD around the time of the 2nd coming?

[Raybob]

Why would a sacrifice be an abomintion if Gods temple resides in mans heart after Jesus's scrifice and the going out of the Helper to His body, the saints?

Ever since the cross, Jesus was and is the only sacrifice that is acceptable to the Lord. The blood of the bulls and offerings were taken away by the blood of Jesus.

For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(Heb 9:13-15)

Wouldnt the abomination then be something else taking place to cause desolation in ones heart?
What does God say happens to those who take the mark of the beast or worship his image? Can they ever be saved? Can God ever reside in His temple if they do? No, doesnt that make it desolate? wouldnt that make the beast, the man of sin, an abomination to God?

Not exactly desolation in one's heart, but more like desolation in one's spirit. When someone lives for Jesus, they have the spirit of God living in them. If they don't live for Jesus, they have total destruction in their spirit, that's doomed to eternal separation from the Lord.

Can they ever be saved, God only knows. I keep sharing where ever I go, just because I hope so.

[Raybob]

You gotta scripture for this I assume.

And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
(Luk 23:45-46)

Adn when were these 1260 days accomplished?

That's 1290 days. It was 7 years for the new covenant. 3.5 years of His ministry plus 3.5 years after = 7 years.

[John 8:32]

And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
(Luk 23:45-46)

And this tells me that animal sacrifices are an abomination how?

That's 1290 days. It was 7 years for the new covenant. 3.5 years of His ministry plus 3.5 years after = 7 years.

Hmmm, 1260, 1290 and 1335. The new covenant and 7 years? What does that mean?

[Raybob]

And this tells me that animal sacrifices are an abomination how?

Sorry, I wasn't sure what you wanted a bible quote for.

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
(Heb 10:1-6)

[John 8:32]

Sorry, I wasn't sure what you wanted a bible quote for.

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
(Heb 10:1-6)

Again, they do not say it is an abomination, it is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, which the Jews cannot do at this time because they are blinded. So they are only able to do what they know. The O.C. is not completely done away yet...

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now thatwhich decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Not past tense.

[warfrog]

Wheres the temple of God? where does He reside on earth? And how?

So if Christ was the sacrifice and we require Him in us through that sacrifice and the Helper is given to a saved, a saint (in fact if you dont recieve the Holy spirit your not saved, stated throughout the N.T in Holy spirit dealing scriptures), if the Helper was ceased and stopped from being given because noone with the mark or worships can recieve the Helper, wouldnt that be ending the sacrifice of Christ? Is that not an abomination to God, one that creates desolation?

Theres a reason is said he exalts himself above God, claiming himself as God standing in the temple of God.
Again so now i ask, since the sacrifice of Christ, where is God's temple on earth? the thing cant stand in heaven exalting himself above God, being in the temple in heaven, so what temple is he standing in.

The temple of 70 A.D was nullified at Christ, it meant nothing to God, how would that be an abomination to Him? Why would that brick and mortar temple be important if He clearly states His place is within man itself being the heart of a man as His temple where He desire to dwell.

no they cant be saved, anyone who has the mark or worships the beast cannot be saved, He states that in Revelation.

[divaD]

Wheres the temple of God? where does He reside on earth? And how?

So if Christ was the sacrifice and we require Him in us through that sacrifice and the Helper is given to a saved, a saint (in fact if you dont recieve the Holy spirit your not saved, stated throughout the N.T in Holy spirit dealing scriptures), if the Helper was ceased and stopped from being given because noone with the mark or worships can recieve the Helper, wouldnt that be ending the sacrifice of Christ? Is that not an abomination to God, one that creates desolation?

Theres a reason is said he exalts himself above God, claiming himself as God standing in the temple of God.
Again so now i ask, since the sacrifice of Christ, where is God's temple on earth? the thing cant stand in heaven exalting himself above God, being in the temple in heaven, so what temple is he standing in.

The temple of 70 A.D was nullified at Christ, it meant nothing to God, how would that be an abomination to Him? Why would that brick and mortar temple be important if He clearly states His place is within man itself being the heart of a man as His temple where He desire to dwell.

no they cant be saved, anyone who has the mark or worships the beast cannot be saved, He states that in Revelation.

Judas was a type for the man of sin. The Wicked one in 2 Thess 2 is not meaning satan, but it meaning Christians who defile the temple of God. Where is the temple of God?

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

This is who I believe the man of sin is....If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy Compare that to this.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


I'm not certain how you see it overall yourself, but this is somewhat the page I'm on. It's a little bit more complicated than this tho.

[warfrog]

Judas was a type for the man of sin. The Wicked one in 2 Thess 2 is not meaning satan, but it meaning Christians who defile the temple of God. Where is the temple of God?

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

This is who I believe the man of sin is....If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy Compare that to this.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


I'm not certain how you see it overall yourself, but this is somewhat the page I'm on. It's a little bit more complicated than this tho.

I see a direct connection of those scriptures you posted to the beast's scriptures in Rev. How everyone not written in the Lambs book of life worships him and takes his mark or worships his image, how he exalts himself above God and claims himself as God.
Since people who are not saved worship him, they beleive him. So in thier hearts, he is God. So he stands in the temple of God as though he is God, he is an abomination that leads to desolation, as anyone who takes his mark or worships his image goes to the fire as the angel proclaims in Revelation.
There is no coming back if you take the mark or worship his image, the sacrifice (Christ) is taken away.

Where all men of sin in the same manner as Judas, Judas bears no difference to anyone else except that it is sealed that he die/died in his sins, thats why he is called a son of perdition.

The wicked one in thess is one who does the operations of saan, who recieve everything from satan, satan is worshipped through the man of sin.

Man of sin is the one described in the best of the sea who all will worship, so the dragon, satan, is worshipped by manner of through him just as scripture says.

Man itself individually or together is not the man of sin, we dont worship each other, we may worship ourselves and some their idols ext, but we dont worship one singular person over all else in which all other men do also.
Also those with the mark or worship the image are destined for the LoF, if men itself were the man of sin described in those scriptures, none of us would be able to accept Christ's sacrifice.

[divaD]

I see a direct connection of those scriptures you posted to the beast's scriptures in Rev. How everyone not written in the Lambs book of life worships him and takes his mark or worships his image, how he exalts himself above God and claims himself as God.
Since people who are not saved worship him, they beleive him. So in thier hearts, he is God. So he stands in the temple of God as though he is God, he is an abomination that leads to desolation, as anyone who takes his mark or worships his image goes to the fire as the angel proclaims in Revelation.
There is no coming back if you take the mark or worship his image, the sacrifice (Christ) is taken away.

Where all men of sin in the same manner as Judas, Judas bears no difference to anyone else except that it is sealed that he die/died in his sins, thats why he is called a son of perdition.

The wicked one in thess is one who does the operations of saan, who recieve everything from satan, satan is worshipped through the man of sin.

Man of sin is the one described in the best of the sea who all will worship, so the dragon, satan, is worshipped by manner of through him just as scripture says.

Man itself individually or together is not the man of sin, we dont worship each other, we may worship ourselves and some their idols ext, but we dont worship one singular person over all else in which all other men do also.
Also those with the mark or worship the image are destined for the LoF, if men itself were the man of sin described in those scriptures, none of us would be able to accept Christ's sacrifice.

At least we're somewhat on the same page, tho not entirely of course. I hear where you're coming from tho. You very well could be correct, since this is a little more complicated than the little each of us has said thusfar.

[Raybob]

Again, they do not say it is an abomination, it is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, which the Jews cannot do at this time because they are blinded.

Correction. You can say that about 'most' Jews but not all. I'm 50% Jew, by blood, but 100% Christian by faith. You could say the same thing about 'most' gentlie people as well. So what?

So they are only able to do what they know. The O.C. is not completely done away yet...

The old covenant has gone bye-bye totally, with the new covenant. If you learned that the old covenant still was in effect after the cross, I'd sure question your authority that told you that. You most certainly didn't find that in the bible. Sounds like a good time to study the book of Hebrews.

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(Heb 8:13)

But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(Heb 9:11-12)

[billy-brown 2]

so then i have a couple questions.

why after 2000 years if he was talking to that generation hasent the kingdom of god come? it was supposed to be near after all those thigs took place.

If the kingdom of God has not come, then the Temple of Herod would have never been destroyed to start with:

Matt. 24
30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

And the sign of the Son of Man is the destruction of the Temple of Herod (among other things). Thus, the phrase "SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY" speaks to the rule of the King of the Kingdom of God--and His name is Jesus. I mean, Jesus read the book of Daniel a lot--and He had to have read this part:

Dan. 7
13“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

14“And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Yep.

why has heaven and earth not passed away.

Well, because Jesus' words have not passed away, yes?

what was all the things that took place in 70 a.d or whatever that He said would take place, how do you explain the great amount of events Jesus described before this parable which He stated must take place first for the kingdom to be near?

Well, the Kingdom of God has come--or we are not in that Kingdom NOW; nor do we NOW have redemption or forgiveness of sins. But Paul does not agree; just look at the "past tense" aspect of the passage below:

Col. 1
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

[billy-brown 2]

I always enjoy your supercilious, belittling replies.

Just fellowship . . that's all . . .

=)

[billy-brown 2]

What about people that are not native to Judea, but are in Judaea in that day? Don't they count?

What day is that?

[John 8:32]

What day is that?

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

There are still stones there one on another in the foundation, Christ said there would not be one stone left upon another. Also, when did He come again and whne did the world end? Hasn't yet, these events must be future or else I slept through the end of the world.

[warfrog]

If the kingdom of God has not come, then the Temple of Herod would have never been destroyed to start with:



And the sign of the Son of Man is the destruction of the Temple of Herod (among other things). Thus, the phrase "SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY" speaks to the rule of the King of the Kingdom of God--and His name is Jesus. I mean, Jesus read the book of Daniel a lot--and He had to have read this part:


Yep.



Well, because Jesus' words have not passed away, yes?



Well, the Kingdom of God has come--or we are not in that Kingdom NOW; nor do we NOW have redemption or forgiveness of sins. But Paul does not agree; just look at the "past tense" aspect of the passage below:

Might want to re-look at the parable, heave and earth pass away but His words do not.

The kingdom is here, i dont deny it i just dont leave the unfullfilled prophecy of the finalization out like you are.
To be Christ's, to have the Spirit is being of the kingdom of God as Paul states an as you are saying, but it isnt the kingdom of God, ressurection still needs to occur, mortality must take on immortality, corruption must become incorruptible, Jesus must return, which He will and those prophecies you beleive happened must happened since they occur prior to Christ's return.

Here i have another question for you, why is Paul so excited for the very death and resurrection that he knew was coming upon him at Christ's return if he was already in the kingdom? Paul was an apostle already at that pont indwelled with th Helper being a part of the kingdom, so why then does he look forard to recieving his crown, that you speak as if he already had?