Speaking in Tongues & Praying in Tongues

[SuperSonicEvnglst]

In Acts 2 at the feast of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out and the 120 began to speak in other tongues and the people at the feast heard everyman in their own language.

1 Cor. 14 - Paul states whoever prays in the Spirit does not speak to man, but to God. His spirit prays, but his understanding is unfruitful.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the
Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

I know the Bible says that tongues and interpretation are gifts of the Spirit used for edification of the saints, but praying in the Spirit is for the edification of ourselves(Romans 14). Jude also says "building up ourselves on our most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit".


Growing up, it seems like there hasn't been a lot of good teaching on the difference between the two.
Question - What do you think has been the result of a lack of teaching on the difference?

[granpa]

speaking in tongues means to speak in multiple tongues at once.

like this:

[Boo]

The Holy Spirit does not need to pray to God. You and I do.

If my mind does not know what to pray, then I need to be still until I do know what to pray.

I am not to do anything to edify myself, build myself up, or just serve myself. I believe that is what Paul was telling those at Corinth as well. I do know that the gift of tonues is still given in ministry, but as a prayer language - nope.

[SuperSonicEvnglst]

The Holy Spirit does not need to pray to God. You and I do.

If my mind does not know what to pray, then I need to be still until I do know what to pray.

I am not to do anything to edify myself, build myself up, or just serve myself. I believe that is what Paul was telling those at Corinth as well. I do know that the gift of tonues is still given in ministry, but as a prayer language - nope.

Unless this is talking about the spirit of man(which could possibly be)Spirit does make intercession for us:
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Doesn't it appear Paul is saying that he is praying in tongues to edify himself?
1 Corinthians 14: 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Paul and Jude both talk about praying in the Spirit to edify oneself. Paul adds in Cor 14 that if there will be no interpretation, to Worship God in tongues to yourself because it builds oneself up(like charging a battery).

[Slug1]

Unless this is talking about the spirit of man(which could possibly be)Spirit does make intercession for us:
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Doesn't it appear Paul is saying that he is praying in tongues to edify himself?
1 Corinthians 14: 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries.
4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Paul and Jude both talk about praying in the Spirit to edify oneself. Paul adds in Cor 14 that if there will be no interpretation, to Worship God in tongues to yourself because it builds oneself up(like charging a battery).

Tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit. When a person is empowered BY the Holy Spirit to pray this way, it is NOT themselves building THEMSELVES up. God is empowering them to pray this way, He IS THE ONE who is edifying a person who prays to themselves AND TO God... in tongues (1 Cor 14:28).

Anyone who states that WE are not to build ourselves up does NOT understand that it is not the person building THEMSELVES up... God is gifting them with the gift of tongues and empowering them by His Spirit. GOD is the one who is edifying the person who prays in ACCORDANCE with the instruction that Paul gave to the Body of Christ.

Now... those churches full of emotional Christians screaming out in what they believe is tongues... well, we have 2 problems:

1) It's not Holy Spirit empowered tongues and is fake, usually taught to them by peers and they can get in on the lunacy when every single person in the building is screaming out in tongues and the point is... who can holler the loudest.

2) It is Holy Spirit empowered tongues, they found themselves gifted with this gift and in the undisciplined exercising of the gift, they are screaming out likewise.

Both groups are in need of MUCH learning and discipleship!

Now, for that Christian(s) who are discipled and are disciplined in their use and execution of this gift of the Holy Spirit... they are quietly praying in tongues sometimes even at church. They do this under their breath and unless a person is actually eavesdropping, they can't be heard praying in tongues.

A problem I've also witnessed as a problem... those who are gifted with "Interpretation of tongues" are not discipled and when some in a church begin to speak in tongues louder (where the praying/speaking can be heard)... there is no translation because the one who has the gift of Interpretation of Tongues, they don't speak up.

Fear is usually a cause of this problem, fear of "if" they are listening right and what will the church "think" of the message of interpretation? ESPECIALLY if the message is of correction. Correction is STILL edification for a church body because without the correction from God, they may still be doing something AS A church that is not of God's will and purpose for the church. For a person who has NEVER Interpreted before and the first time they are to interpret tongues, the message of edification is correction, while they are prompted to SPEAK the translation, they don't. Maybe they tell the pastor later what was said... this is not the order though. They need to be discipled.

Anyway... anyone who says that tongues is NOT to be spoken because we are not to edify ourselves... well, they need to understand that tongues is from God, so if if a person prays in tongues, it is God PROVIDING the means for edification. The person are simply being OBEDIENT to the move of the Holy Spirit upon them as God edifies them through the gift of tongues.

When Interpretation does occur, then God is PROVIDING edification for the WHOLE church. (1 Cor 14:3-5)

Also by 1 Cor 14:3-5... Paul is telling the Body of Christ that he WISHES we all speak in tongues or better yet, prophesy... far cry from the mindset that we are NOT to speak in tongues. I just don't understand how any Christian can ACCUSE tongues so negatively with a mindset that tongues is for BUILDING up oneself.

They are not building themselves up, God is doing it and doing it supernaturally through that gift and empowerment to exercise that gift of the Holy Spirit.

The only reason I can fathom as to why a Christian would make an accusation AGAINST something that God has PROVIDED for the Body of Christ... is simply they don't WANT to accept these Gifts of the Holy Spirit continue today. Whether this is due to lack of understanding, false teaching, man-made doctrines, or just an actual JUSTIFICATION for the fact their church has NEVER experienced the Holy Spirit move in supernatural power and the need to justify a reason is given... the fact is, SO many churches will NEVER experience this because they simply refuse to be in obedience to the move of the Holy Spirit upon and through the Body of Christ.

In that other thread, a statement was made that explains it all... ANY church with a pastor or any church leadership or any church doctrine that FORBIDS the move of the Holy Spirit and they will not ALLOW tongues to be manifest or prophets to speak, or a word of knowledge to be given... this is the EXPLANATION why MANY churches NEVER experience the move of the Holy Spirit supernaturally in their church.

Man is in charge, not God. The attitude is, this is MY church, MY ministry, MY sheep. If a pastor thinks anything like this... he is not a shepherd and cannot lead as God would have him lead. Yet, many churches are led this way and thus, God is NOT ALLOWED to move supernaturally.

[SuperSonicEvnglst]

Tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit. When a person is empowered BY the Holy Spirit to pray this way, it is NOT themselves building THEMSELVES up. God is empowering them to pray this way, He IS THE ONE who is edifying a person who prays to themselves AND TO God... in tongues (1 Cor 14:28).

Anyone who states that WE are not to build ourselves up does NOT understand that it is not the person building THEMSELVES up... God is gifting them with the gift of tongues and empowering them by His Spirit. GOD is the one who is edifying the person who prays in ACCORDANCE with the instruction that Paul gave to the Body of Christ.

Now... those churches full of emotional Christians screaming out in what they believe is tongues... well, we have 2 problems:

1) It's not Holy Spirit empowered tongues and is fake, usually taught to them by peers and they can get in on the lunacy when every single person in the building is screaming out in tongues and the point is... who can holler the loudest.

2) It is Holy Spirit empowered tongues, they found themselves gifted with this gift and in the undisciplined exercising of the gift, they are screaming out likewise.

Both groups are in need of MUCH learning and discipleship!

Now, for that Christian(s) who are discipled and are disciplined in their use and execution of this gift of the Holy Spirit... they are quietly praying in tongues sometimes even at church. They do this under their breath and unless a person is actually eavesdropping, they can't be heard praying in tongues.

A problem I've also witnessed as a problem... those who are gifted with "Interpretation of tongues" are not discipled and when some in a church begin to speak in tongues louder (where the praying/speaking can be heard)... there is no translation because the one who has the gift of Interpretation of Tongues, they don't speak up.

Fear is usually a cause of this problem, fear of "if" they are listening right and what will the church "think" of the message of interpretation? ESPECIALLY if the message is of correction. Correction is STILL edification for a church body because without the correction from God, they may still be doing something AS A church that is not of God's will and purpose for the church. For a person who has NEVER Interpreted before and the first time they are to interpret tongues, the message of edification is correction, while they are prompted to SPEAK the translation, they don't. Maybe they tell the pastor later what was said... this is not the order though. They need to be discipled.

Anyway... anyone who says that tongues is NOT to be spoken because we are not to edify ourselves... well, they need to understand that tongues is from God, so if if a person prays in tongues, it is God PROVIDING the means for edification. The person are simply being OBEDIENT to the move of the Holy Spirit upon them as God edifies them through the gift of tongues.

When Interpretation does occur, then God is PROVIDING edification for the WHOLE church. (1 Cor 14:3-5)

Also by 1 Cor 14:3-5... Paul is telling the Body of Christ that he WISHES we all speak in tongues or better yet, prophesy... far cry from the mindset that we are NOT to speak in tongues. I just don't understand how any Christian can ACCUSE tongues so negatively with a mindset that tongues is for BUILDING up oneself.

They are not building themselves up, God is doing it and doing it supernaturally through that gift and empowerment to exercise that gift of the Holy Spirit.

This is probably the best breakdown I've ever heard on the gifts of tongues and interpretation. Growing up in pentecostal services(not all like this), i can think of so many services that seemed to be a replica of what Paul describes in this chapter. Its almost as if Paul was there lol What's interesting is that these Churches, though ignorant of how to use the gift of tongues, were used greatly in the gifts of healing and discernment of spirits. I wonder if that's how it was with the Corinthian Church?

Do you think that, while in the prayer closet, that we should ask God for interpretation while praying in tongues?

[Slug1]

Do you think that, while in the prayer closet, that we should ask God for interpretation while praying in tongues?

Why not?

1 Cor 14:13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

Paul is clearly showing us that we can pray that we "may" interpret. While praying in tongues without interpretation STILL edifies oneself on a spiritual level (1 Cor 14:4). Paul is showing us, actually discipling us in the understanding that WE CAN also be allowed to understand WHEN we pray or even SING in tongues. Based on the verses 13-15, we are encouraged to ask for interpretation so that we may ALSO have understanding which will edify on an emotional/knowledge type of edification level. If no interpretation is given, those who pray in tongues are STILL edified on a spiritual level.

Does God always grant interpretation when those with this gift, pray in their closet?

Nope...

[SuperSonicEvnglst]

If you ever do a thread on Spiritual gifts, please let me know!

[Slug1]

If you ever do a thread on Spiritual gifts, please let me know!

Check my profile and click the: "Find Latest Started Threads" under my face

Somewhere in there are some threads on Spiritual Gifts... some are closed due to "unbelievers" bearing negative fruit against the Holy Spirit.

[MoreMercy]

I can't share what the "gift" of speaking in tongues or praying in tongues is not.
But will share that tongues is human language or a Human language's dialect, but still is a human language.
There is nothing mysterious and nothing need be interpreted to be understood unless you do not speak the language, tongue or dialect that is being spoken by the HUMAN speaking.

If two people who grew up reading two different versions of the bible but both people are near the same level in their knowledge of God's word, if they speak about God they will understand each other.
But, that does not mean that everyone who hear those two people speak will understand them too, even though they have the same God and use the same bible version or even use both version of the bible that the other two people use. unless there is an interpreter who can speak the same human language.

I have been blessed to have lived all over the globe, I have experienced many, many different cultures, languages, and people, from the South Pacific to the Caribbean, to the North Atlantic and Mediterranean and most of the Nations that touch those Oceans and Seas.
But in each of those cultures and Nations there have been several to many different subcultures within each of them.

Even the Nation where I live now there are many, many subcultures. So if I invite to dinner just one friend from each of my current Nation's subcultures, subcultures that I have experienced and learned to communicate effectively in.
If I invite just one friend from each of those many subcultures all on the same day and time, to the same dinner with me.
Even though everyone at the dinner speaks the same language and should understand each other.
If I speak to one of the dinner guest it will probably only be understood by the one I was speaking too, and not understood by the rest of them there at the table with us because they are not familiar with the same Jargon, slang or Argots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argot) as the one who are speaking.


Father bless those who look to you, but have mercy on all of us to glorify your name.

[MaryFreeman]

In Acts 2 at the feast of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was poured out and the 120 began to speak in other tongues and the people at the feast heard everyman in their own language.

Here is something absolutely fantastic and very clarifying.... Watch this....

Act 2:13-15 LITV But ridiculing, others said, They are full of sweet wine. (14) But standing up with the Eleven, Peter lifted up his voice and spoke out to them, Men, Jews, and all those living in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen to my words: (15) For these are not drunk, as you imagine, for it is the third hour of the day.

This passage here shows the theory that those "other languages" were human tongues as just that.... An unproven theory.... Let me ask you this....

Have you ever listened to a person who is "full of sweet wine"?

What comes from their mouths is just gibberish.... It is not an intelligible language easily understood.... Although you may just hear a word you almost recognize.... Here are two points....

The SIGN of tongues is not for believers but for unbelievers....

1Co 14:22 LITV So that tongues are not a sign to those believing, but to those not believing. But prophecy is not to those not believing, but to those believing.

The passage in Acts bears that out.... But remember none can come to belief unless the Spirit draws them.... So in one aspect the assertion that tongues is Spirit induced is true.... The Holy Spirit gives utterance.... The Corinthian passage asserts that those UNBELIEVERS who hear you speaking in tongues will claim you've gone mad.... There is a difference between an unbeliever and an unsaved person.... Those who are Christians but do not believe in speaking (or praying) in tongues are unbelievers in that respect.... The Greek word apistos can mean someone who is actively disbelieving.... Or someone without Christ.... But they aren't necessarily the same.... One can be in Christ but not believe certain doctrines.... OR believe them differently.... And most of them do not believe because they either lack instruction or were taught falsely.... Two such teachings are that tongues is no longer in use by the Spirit.... And that not everyone can speak or pray in tongues.... Hence the claim that if everyone is doing it it must be fake.... Or learned.... Or coached....

Think on this.... EVERY SINGLE ONE of the 120 people present in that first century fledgling church SPOKE IN TONGUES when the Spirit descended on them....

All of them.... Not just "the special ones"....

Those in the streets whom the Spirit knew would willfully listen and believe heard them in their own human languages.... And the 120 were in an upstairs room.... Not spread out among the people....

Those who chose not to heed this sign heard only gibberish and assumed the 120 to be drunk beyond comprehension....

FWIW I speak and pray in tongues.... My church has prayer sessions where we do so corporately.... It's just us therefore there is no harm in it.... But my pastor has the wisdom to first instruct about what will be happening in case it is not just us.... Like he says.... He recognizes people but does not assume he knows everyone....

I do NOT.... However.... Prophesy in tongues.... I don't even prophesy in english.... I don't have that GIFT.... As a matter of fact I recall only ONE time God used my tongues to speak to another.... But that doesn't make me a prophet.... I am steadily used to minister words of wisdom.... In my church the prophecy in tongues is nearly always done by my pastors wife.... And the interpretation immediately follows and is given by my pastor.... Which leads me to the personal (but not necessarily biblically backed) belief that God partners spirits who work well and intuitively together.... Man and wife being chief.... Aquila and Priscilla come to mind.... My point though is this.... Prophecy is for believers.... And some unbelievers or unsaved folk are moved by the Spirit of conviction to accept this as a sign that God is indeed with these believers.... And that they need whatever these believers have.... Salvation.... The infilling.... Whatever it is that the hearer lacks....

But those who were foreknown by God to choose to reject Christ and remain in sin forever will not hear anything but gibberish.... Because what is the use in moving them? The Spirit only moves those who God knew before time began would choose Him....

Here is an example from my personal life.... My husband has heard me praying in the Spirit (or tongues if you prefer).... Though he does not understand what I am saying.... He does recognize that it is not gibberish.... He will tell you he knows beyond doubt that I am speaking a language that would make sense if he knew it.... In other words.... He knows that there is a meaning to the things I am saying.... He just doesn't know what it is.... And this is biblical.... Watch this:

1Co 14:9-11 KJV So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. (10) There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. (11) Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

Translation?:

1Co 14:9-11 CEV That's how it is when you speak unknown languages. If no one can understand what you are talking about, you will only be talking to the wind. (10) There are many different languages in this world, and all of them make sense. (11) But if I don't understand the language that someone is using, we will be like foreigners to each other.

My husband will tell you that what he hears is indeed a foreign language.... But someone who is not moved by the Spirit will tell you that I am speaking gibberish.... Something that doesn't make any kind of sense.... Some will tell you I am crazy and others will say I am drunk.... But they will not discern that what I am speaking is a language and has a meaning.... So as a sign tongues is given for the benefit of those who can be moved by the Spirit.... Such as my husband (who is growing every day in the things of God HALLELUJAH!).... NOT those who have not and will never choose Jesus....

Speaking and praying in the Spirit are personal.... Prophecy is corporate.... I am not sure there is a difference between speaking and praying in tongues.... They both do the same thing though.... They recharge the speakers batteries.... Prophecy (in english or angels) recharges the churches batteries....

I hope I have answered some questions....

[MoreMercy]

I apologize the link in my post was invalid, but has been corrected now.

I can't share what the "gift" of speaking in tongues or praying in tongues is not.
But will share that tongues is human language or a Human language's dialect, but still is a human language.
There is nothing mysterious and nothing need be interpreted to be understood unless you do not speak the language, tongue or dialect that is being spoken by the HUMAN speaking.

If two people who grew up reading two different versions of the bible but both people are near the same level in their knowledge of God's word, if they speak about God they will understand each other.
But, that does not mean that everyone who hears those two people speak will understand then even though they have the same God and use the same bible version or even use both of the versions of the bible that the other two people use unless there is an interpreter who can speak the same human language.

I have been blessed to have lived all over the globe, I have experienced many, many different cultures, languages, and people, from the South Pacific to the Caribbean, to the North Atlantic and Mediterranean and most of the Nations that touch those Oceans and Seas.
But in each of those cultures and Nations there have been several to many different subcultures within each of them.

Even the Nation where I live now there are many, many subcultures. So if I invite to dinner just one friend from each of my current Nation's subcultures, subcultures that I have experienced and learned to communicate effectively in.
If I invite just one friend from each of those many subcultures all on the same day and time, to the same dinner with me.
Even though everyone at the dinner speaks the same language and should understand each other.
If I speak to one of the dinner guest it will probably only be understood by the one I was speaking too, and not understood by the rest of them there at the table with us because they are not familiar with the same jargon, slang or Argots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArgotArgot) as the ones who are speaking.


Father bless those who look to you, but have mercy on all of us to glorify your name.

God bless these forums.