Overthrow a dictatorship. Still rebellion against God?

[buster]

Romans 13 says to obey the governing authorities. But what I am sure a lot of people know is that there are a lot of nations in which the government can be downright cruel and discriminatory to certain people.

Nations like North Korea, Cuba, most of Africa, Haiti, Mexico, Venezuela, and possibly China have governments that ruthlessly rob the poor and give to the rich, always continuously widening the gap between rich and poor. They do not serve people with disabilities. People with such ailments as polio, muscular dystrophe, paraplegia, quadriplegia, those in wheelchairs, and not to mention those with learning and/or developmental disabilities like myself get no help whatsoever from those governments. Some of those nations, like North Korea, even punish people for Christianity. I even read that once, 5 Christian leaders in North Korea were publicly executed, just for their religion, by being run over with a steamroller. China has a forced abortion policy for families who have more than 1 child.

Even the USA is not always exactly kind to the poor. Every day, retirees/elderly people, people who are laid off, and such get evicted from their homes and made homeless, the bureaucracies don't allow people with disabilities who receive disability benefits to retain their benefits if they get married. I mean, even if the non disabled spouse is capable of providing for the household, it would still be nice if the disabled spouse could at least provide some financial backup.

Does anyone think that the Bible might provide exceptions for those types of situations in government? Or is it in fact a sin to try to overthrow corruption?

[jesse]

I think, given the New Testament, it is indeed a sin. It would have been a sin for a german christian to rebel against Hitler. In Paul's day they faced death at the hands of the government for being Christian. Despite what some might say, there are currently plenty of reasons to rebel against the American government if Christians were inclined to do so. But they are not inclined to do so. Which in itself says a lot. The apostle Paul, as a roman citizen, could have held public office. He did not go that route, preferring instead to be brought before the authorities in chains. Which says a lot.

[buster]

Very sad and touching. I guess Jesus/Paul may have well just said bluntly; "Even when the Government is wrong, the Government is still right!"

[Colight]

Romans 13 says to obey the governing authorities. But what I am sure a lot of people know is that there are a lot of nations in which the government can be downright cruel and discriminatory to certain people.

Nations like North Korea, Cuba, most of Africa, Haiti, Mexico, Venezuela, and possibly China have governments that ruthlessly rob the poor and give to the rich, always continuously widening the gap between rich and poor. They do not serve people with disabilities. People with such ailments as polio, muscular dystrophe, paraplegia, quadriplegia, those in wheelchairs, and not to mention those with learning and/or developmental disabilities like myself get no help whatsoever from those governments.
Some of those nations, like North Korea, even punish people for Christianity. I even read that once, 5 Christian leaders in North Korea were publicly executed, just for their religion, by being run over with a steamroller. China has a forced abortion policy for families who have more than 1 child.

Do governments exist to cater to the infirm and the poor?
To take away from the productive and give to the lazy with the might of the rifle?
We get the governments we deserve, some of these cruel governments are the judgement of heaven upon a people who have rejected God or even Christians who have rejected truth.
So why exactly should we be involved in lessing Gods judgement upon a wicked people??

Is all mighty God able to bless his flock in the midst of the North Korea or China?

To plot revolution against these governments when you are under them is Crusader Arrogance, the same type of arrogance that spawned the Inquisition. God can not bless such a act. If you live there and dont like it, find a way to leave.

Even the USA is not always exactly kind to the poor. Every day, retirees/elderly people, people who are laid off, and such get evicted from their homes and made homeless, the bureaucracies don't allow people with disabilities who receive disability benefits to retain their benefits if they get married. I mean, even if the non disabled spouse is capable of providing for the household, it would still be nice if the disabled spouse could at least provide some financial backup.

Be nice if the poor looked to Christ rather than government for their support.
How many people put all their eggs in some retirement basket rather than opportunity.
They stick with a job because it give them a retirement package rather than throw off the shackles and go the route of freedom to adapt to the economy as it buckles and flows.
They trade freedom for security and get neither.
America is a nation under Gods judgement.. People have no interest in doctrine and truth, instead they go for FUN-DAY shows rather than day to day intake of bible study.

Does anyone think that the Bible might provide exceptions for those types of situations in government? Or is it in fact a sin to try to overthrow corruption?

It is a sin and one that can lead to capital punishment.

[Boo]

Like it or not, God's Word still stands.

The government became church for non-believers. Therein lies the problem.

We didn't/don't turn to God. We even have some in government who want Christians have a duty to give their money to government to run the government-form of charity; which is grossly inefficient and wasteful.

Because people can depend on government to supply their needs when old or infirm, we gave up on the idea of family and dependence on one another - responsibility for our children and our parents. This destruction of the family is the real problem, and for an answer; we again turn to government.

I don't look for any great blessings from God for our country. If we get one, it will be from his mercy as we do nothing to earn one.

[vlad]

dont forget there are plenty of christians who went and burned down other cities murdered women and children the old testement is full of what christians did ,moses escaping from pharho , abraham almost killing his own son ,joshua ordered by god to burn down cities and take nothing with them ,joseph became the kings servernt and told the king how to starve the population until they become christians and then churchers were built to worship god ,solomon,david,etc etc

[tea]

Or is it in fact a sin to try to overthrow corruption?

Anything that is not of love and faith is sin!
If someone thinks they can do a better job than God by killing others, he lacks faith and love.

[tea]

dont forget there are plenty of christians who went and burned down other cities murdered women and children the old testement is full of what christians did

There were only christians in the NEW COVENANT, not the OLD.
No where in the NEW COVENANT are we encouraged to do anything outside of love, which means, not killing people.

[buster]

What about simple protest/advocating, without violence, to replace or improve government?

[Colight]

What about simple protest/advocating, without violence, to replace or improve government?

Any thing to keep out of bible class, huh,,,,

If it is not a spiritual solution, it is not a solution.

[jesse]

dont forget there are plenty of christians who went and burned down other cities murdered women and children the old testement is full of what christians did ,moses escaping from pharho , abraham almost killing his own son ,joshua ordered by god to burn down cities and take nothing with them ,joseph became the kings servernt and told the king how to starve the population until they become christians and then churchers were built to worship god ,solomon,david,etc etc

There were no Christians in the old testament. I guess you are mostly referring to Israel? They still do that. Ask those who live in Palestine about it.

[buster]

Not keep out of bible class. I mean that government occasionally needs correcting, especially when they make laws that go contrary to what the Bible says and prescribes.

Just a few hours ago, I had thoughts that really scared me. In the laws of Moses, and even the New Testament, a court, church, and/or priest was not required specifically by either Moses or Jesus, meaning that the Bible describes a marriage as simply a lifelong commitment, a covenant between a man, a woman, and God. Even the New Testament says, right in Matthew 19:4-6; "And He answered and said unto them, 'Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female', And said, 'For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder'." But apparently, Paul says to obey the Government as well as God. And obviously, in many states in America, a license is required to get married. My mom is 68 years old and my stepdad is 58 or 59. And as my parents are not legally married (by the State, or by priest/ceremonial occasion), that makes me very scared for them, like I have a feeling that they are going to the Lake of Fire when they pass on.

I mean, as far as I know it, they are committed to each other until death do them part, but they don't have a marriage license.

[Colight]

Not keep out of bible class. I mean that government occasionally needs correcting, especially when they make laws that go contrary to what the Bible says and prescribes.

Just a few hours ago, I had thoughts that really scared me. In the laws of Moses, and even the New Testament, a court, church, and/or priest was not required specifically by either Moses or Jesus, meaning that the Bible describes a marriage as simply a lifelong commitment, a covenant between a man, a woman, and God. Even the New Testament says, right in Matthew 19:6; "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." But apparently, Paul says to obey the Government as well as God. And obviously, in many states in America, a license is required to get married. My mom is 68 years old and my stepdad is 58 or 59. And as my parents are not legally married (by the State, or by priest/ceremonial occasion), that makes me very scared for them, like I have a feeling that they are going to the Lake of Fire when they pass on.

I mean, as far as I know it, they are committed to each other until death do them part, but they don't have a marriage license.

Ok.. what does eternal judgement have to do with marriage?
Christ was judged for all sin, so if they believe Christ, then they have savation.
If they reject Christs work, then they have eternal judgement.
On eternal Judgement....
The Issue is Christ, not sin.

John 3:18
¹⁸He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[tango]

Romans 13 says to obey the governing authorities. But what I am sure a lot of people know is that there are a lot of nations in which the government can be downright cruel and discriminatory to certain people.

Nations like North Korea, Cuba, most of Africa, Haiti, Mexico, Venezuela, and possibly China have governments that ruthlessly rob the poor and give to the rich, always continuously widening the gap between rich and poor. They do not serve people with disabilities. People with such ailments as polio, muscular dystrophe, paraplegia, quadriplegia, those in wheelchairs, and not to mention those with learning and/or developmental disabilities like myself get no help whatsoever from those governments. Some of those nations, like North Korea, even punish people for Christianity. I even read that once, 5 Christian leaders in North Korea were publicly executed, just for their religion, by being run over with a steamroller. China has a forced abortion policy for families who have more than 1 child.

Even the USA is not always exactly kind to the poor. Every day, retirees/elderly people, people who are laid off, and such get evicted from their homes and made homeless, the bureaucracies don't allow people with disabilities who receive disability benefits to retain their benefits if they get married. I mean, even if the non disabled spouse is capable of providing for the household, it would still be nice if the disabled spouse could at least provide some financial backup.

Does anyone think that the Bible might provide exceptions for those types of situations in government? Or is it in fact a sin to try to overthrow corruption?

The government in power when Paul wrote his letter weren't the nicest of people to Christians either. I don't see Paul saying "obey the government, as long as you approve of them and they are nice to the people you think are deserving".

[vlad]

jesus rebelled against the lawmakers and tax collectors he never rebelled against god