Article: Temple Cleansing "Contradiction"

[Cyberseeker]

You can view the page at http://bibleforums.org/content.php/1...-Contradiction

[Saved7]

Very well done. You did your homework on this one, for sure.

[claybevan]

When did Jesus cleanse the temple?
I suppose, when the cleaner was off sick wasn't the answer you were looking for?
So glad he loves even the simple folk like me too.
I am really enjoying this site, some real thought provoking stuff, thank you again.

[Cyberseeker]

lol, I reckon they would have needed more than one cleaner especially with all those doves and cattle.

[ebed]

What has always Amazed me, is that the very same crowd that claim contradictions in the Gospels, will then turn around and claim the accuracy of gnostic hacks like the "Gospel of Thomas"! I suppose that it should be assumed that the Blind will act blind! The hard part for me, is to see them as "the deceived", and not enemies of Christ, especially when they try to defame our Lords' Name intentionally!

#5of10

[WSGAC]

If John's gospel is historical,
If the Jesus of the synoptics told his disciples to go out and "teach all that I have commanded you",
If John's Jesus indeed made the great "I AM" claims, (ie. I am the gate, I am the bread, I am the way truth life, I am the resurrection...etc),
Why did not one of those Johanine statemements by Jesus make it into any of the other gospels?
If Jesus told his disciples to go into all the world and "teach ALL that I have commanded you", then these omissions are quite striking!
Hence, trying to reconcile John's gospel with the synoptics is Tom Foolery!

[Eyelog]

First, well done. But, of course, you should not proclaim that Jesus cleared the temple twice, but that he did so at least twice. The Gospels are hardly an exhaustive chronology, I am sure you agree.

So far as WSGAC's comment: Use of high fluting adjectives like "Johanine" do more to undermine your position than establish your credibility. But that is just a personal pet peeve, rather than a substantive point. I digress.

Argument from silence is a tricky business, bucko. You oughta support your position with details which justify your sweeping generalization.

For instance, will you say that all the 'i am's' are interpolations in the book of John or would you say the entire book is one big interpolation in the NT?

Moreover, textual criticism aside, would you suggest that the synoptic gospels were not based on eyewitness testimonies, which depend upon what stood out to the particular person whose info was transcribed?

Glib quips filled with inuendo do not edify. They betray wounded pride alone, ... unless they are an invitation to discuss at length. How about starting a thread on the subject?

[pilgrim77]

Very well done. You did your homework on this one, for sure.

Actually, I've always understood that He chased out the moneychangers from the temple every year of His public ministry. Which would mean 3 times, since His public ministry lasted about 3 1/2 years. After all, the Passover was a yearly event and the same moneychangers were there every passover to try and make money off of the poor. And, of course, if that were the case then there's no contradiction since He cleansed the temple once at the beginning of His ministry and another time in the middle and the 3rd time at the end of His public ministry. In other words, the reason there is a discrepency in the time table of when this "cleansing occurred is because the writers of the gospel were referring to different passovers, not the same passover.

[Cyberseeker]

His ministry spanned 4 Passovers - AD27, 28, 29, 30. I think he stayed away from Jerusalem during the AD29 Passover because it was shortly after raising Lazarus and assassination plans were being plotted more seriously than before.

As for the AD28 Passover Im not guessing. Two recorded events are clear tho.

[ScanMan]

I think the simplest answer is best...the writer of John made a chronological error concerning the temple cleansing. To say that there were two temple cleansings is a major stretch...it is such a specific event...it would be like hearing that Jesus raised Lazarus twice. And of course, the big question is, if there were two temple cleansings, then why didn't the writer of John and the other gospel writers mention both events in the same text?

[esper88]

I liked your article, but I personally don't need to figure out the little details of the gospel. God will reveal his meanings when the time is right for me to know them. All these supposed inconsistencies will be explained by God himself in the next life, and I trust he will have a better explanation than any of us.

[12jtartar]

Hello,
I am very impressed with your obvious study of the scriptures. I came to the same conclusion you did about the two Temple cleaning.
I have a little difference with you about the time Jesus appeared as the Messiah, the time of his baptism, by John, Matt 3:13-17.
At Like 3:15, we are told that the people were looking for the Messiah. This was about the time that Jesus appeared, that is why they asked John the Baptist if he was the Messiah. The reason that the Jews were looking for the Messiah was because they were familiar with the prophecy at Dan 9:24-27.
Notice that at Dan 9:24, we are told about a seventy week period that had been determined on the Israelites, and their city, in order to terminate transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in righteousness, to imprint, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy, Verse 25 tells us from the going forth of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, UNTIL the MESSIAH, the Prince, there would be 7 weeks and 62 weeks. The street would be rebuilt, and the wall, but in troublesome times.
In other words the Messiah, Jesus would appear in 7 weeks AND 62 weeks.
That makes a period of 69 weeks. As you know, of course, many prophecies cannot be understood unless you were there, a Jew, or you waited until the prophecy was fulfilled to understand it. Since the prophecy was fulfilled, here is the fulfillment. In some prophecies days stood for years, as at Num 14:34, where it was a year for a day. The same principle was used at Eze 4:4-6.
So, we have 7 weeks was 49 years, 7 days in a week times 7 weeks.
This shows us that Jesus the Messiah would appear in 49 years plus 483 years, 62 weeks times 7 is 434. The exact time tthat the Messiah would appear would be 483 years, BUT from what date???
In verse 25 we were told that from the going forth of the command to rebuild and restore, until the Messiah would be 483 years.
If you turn to Nehemiah, Chapter 2:1, we are told about the 20th year of Artaxerxes. If you read the following verses to verse 8, you will see that in the 20th year of Artaxerxes is when the command to rebuild Jerusalem went forth. A close perusal of history will show that the year 455BCE was the 20th year of Artaxerxes.
Now, if you add 483 years to 455BCE you will come to the year 29AD, as there was no ZERO year.
So the Messiah appeared in 29AD, or CE. Of that there can be no doubt, because that is why the Jews were looking for the Messiah at that time, luke 3:15.
In the next verses of Daniel's prophecy 26,27 we are told that after the 62 weeks, meaning both the 7 and the 62 weeks, because these dates are about time. At the 7 weeks the Temple was rebuilt. This is recorded at Ezra chapter 1. This tells about the first full year of Cyrus the Persion who let the Israelites go home to rebuild the Temple in 537BCE. 49 years later it was rebuilt, also in the stream of time.
Notice that Dan 9:27 tells that the Messiah would be cut off in the middles of the week, meaning in the middle of the 70th week, exactly when Jesus was killed, 3 1/2 years into Jesus' ministery.
Notice that it says that God would confirm the Covenant with the MANY, for the ONE WEEK. This was the prophecy about the nation of Israel would have another sex months, before the opportunity for the Gentiles to come into the Christian Congregation and remain uncircumcised. The first uncircumcised Gentile was Cornelius, Acts 10th chapter.
If you look closely you will understand that Peter used the third Key that Jesus gave him, Matt 16:19. The first Key was when the Jews and proselytes were baptized on Pentecost 33CE, and became the first to become, what would be a little later called Christians. he second Key was when Peter went to Samaria and used to second Key to allow the Samaritans to come into the Christian Congregation, Acts 8:14-17. When the third Key was used that marked the end of the Seventy Weeks , 490 years. Peter alluded to him being used to open the Christian Congregation at Acts 15:7-9.
Even though there has benn much disputing about Daniela prophecy, this is the only way that all the parts fit exactly, and this only after the fulfillment, when we could look back and analyze exactly what happened during the seventy weeks time period, from 455BCE to 36AD, 490 years.

[Cyberseeker]

Hello 12jtartar and thank you for your comments. Im not surprised that your study of Daniel led you to the temple cleansing. When we realise how Messiah was to be cut off in the middle of the 'week' the matter of his ministry being 3½ years becomes an issue.

If you would like to discuss the details of Daniels prophecy or things such as Artaxerxes reign you would do well to start a topic in the Eschatology or Bible chat area of this forum. Incidentally, welcome to Bible forums and I hope you like it here.

[Aservantonthemount]

Look what happens when the believers think objectively.

[guero]

You are supported by the Church Fathers in your analysis.

John Chrysostom explained this in his Homily XXIII on the Gospel According to John, written sometime in the latter 4th century (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf114.iv.xxv.html).

"But on going up to Jerusalem, what did He, a deed full of high authority; for He cast out of the Temple those dealers and money changers, and those who sold doves, and oxen, and sheep, and who passed their time there for this purpose. Another Evangelist writes, that as He cast them out, He said, Make not my Father’s house 'a den of thieves,' but this one, ('Make not My Father’s house) an house of merchandise.' They do not in this contradict each other, but show that he did this a second time, and that both these expressions were not used on the same occasion, but that He acted thus once at the beginning of His ministry, and again when He had come to the very time of His Passion. Therefore, (on the latter occasion,) employing more strong expressions, He spoke of it as (being made) 'a den of thieves,' but here at the commencement of His miracles He does not so, but uses a more gentle rebuke"

Besides the use of the scourge, we also see that He quotes Isaiah 56:7 in the Synoptic Gospels. We also see that in the Synoptic Gospels those in the Temple set out to destroy Him afterwards, whereas in John they merely challenge His authority.

They may have been shamefaced because the area of the Temple that was turned into a bazar was the one area where Gentiles were free to worship.