Christians that "fear" Jesus?!

[Watchman]

When a Christian has a relationship with God, through Jesus Christ, as led by the Holy Spirit... when such manifestations happen today, such as a demon being "cast out" of a person, MANY Christians today FEAR this.

SO my question in basically... if a person DOES have a relationship with God, through Jesus Christ, as led by the Holy Spirit... then WHEN the power of God is manifest today, WHY do people and this INCLUDES Christians... FEAR when God glorifies Himself in a miraculous manner? Such as WHEN another Christian uses their authority "in" Christ to cast a demon out of another person.

God wants a very intimate PERSONAL relationship with Christians (with us, with "you"), so that means when He manifests in "power"... shouldn't this produce Praise/Honor/Glory proclaimed? Yet, in some... they fear... why?

Many claim to have a personal relationship with Him; however, the proof of such lies in their walk, not in their talk. Many, who claim relationship with Him actually have just repeated a prayer, or made a statement but don't really know Him. Others rely on the scriptures, but they don't teach us to know Him, they teach us about Him. Should I write my autobiography, then all the readers of it would know a LOT about me...yet wouldn't know me at all. The same thing holds true with those who constantly harp about doctrine. Many of them know a lot about Him, but don't know Him in a personal, experiential, daily-walk with Him sort of way. These, and the group who know Him in name only, tend to fear His manifestations because His power takes them immediately from their comfort zone. If we truly know and trust Him, then we have no need of a comfort zone other than His presence with us. Another group are those who believe that a single doctrinal error damns one to eternal torture. By and large, this group is comprised of cessationists; consequently, God's power on display is, to them, automatically of the enemy. It HAS to be because if they're wrong about it, then they're hell bound. That is neither life nor abundant life...that is a life of cowering behind poor teaching and lack of understanding.

Personally, I love it when God shows up powerfully!

blessings,

Watchman

[Dani H]

Since this is not the age of signs and wonders....

Listen, mate, the rest of us get where you stand, so please drop it already. Your unnecessary comments are really hurting the flow of this thread. Maybe think of other people for a change who are trying to enjoy a conversation about something other than your closed-minded personal pet doctrine?

You've repeatedly been asked to drop it, so it's time to drop it because you're looking mighty rude just about now.

Thanks!

[Toner44]

I would say your answer is yes.

Many fear the supernatural aspect of it. They respond in fear, when it should be strengthening their faith.

Are we really suppose to fear evil?

[Dani H]

How many Christians are in situations right now, that are actually of God and that He is behind and in control of, and they're blaming the devil and asking for prayer, as if any amount of prayer to God will stop God's work in their lives? And, they're actually actively resisting God and maybe don't even realize it?

My answer to your OP and to my above scenario would be the same: False teaching.

[Protective Angel]

Are we really suppose to fear evil?

It is our duty to fear God.

I'm not sure where your question came from, but with the full armor of God, will should fear no evil.

[Dani H]

Ok time for a disclaimer: When I say "false teaching" I don't necessarily just mean within the Church. I've been taught many things throughout my life by many different people, and have been led to believe a lot of things about a lot of things that were flat-out lies.

So I'm also referring to the world's teachings we've picked up over the years and have to unlearn and reject, and embrace God's truth. That's why we're told to test all things. Lies come at us in many forms and from many sources (even loved and respected people), but there is only ever one Truth: God. To embrace truth you have to reject lies, no matter how dearly believed and trusted in.

[Slug1]

One has to be exact in their knowledge and faith when dealing with non-counterfit possessions.

Acts 19
13Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Perhaps there is no real understanding or maturity with in the Church today.
The church is more like a nursery, full of spiritual babies, rather than any sort of higher level understanding.

These spiritual babies would tend to be fearful, for they are not ready for such things..

Are we really suppose to fear evil?

I'll bring in both quotes for this reply.

No, we are not to even "fear" anything of satan. Yet... we find that Christians do fear both satan and God when it comes to "supernatural" occurrences in church.

Colight, you mention that fear may be due to a Christian being a babe in Christ... well, is an ENTIRE church made up of ONLY babes? What about the leadership of the church, surely they are not babes in Christ? So when the pastor is empowered by the Holy Spirit to discern a demon in a person, and then cast it out of that person, the people in the congregation who DO feel fear from suddenly experiencing/witnessing the power of God manifest before them... the leadership of the church will counsel those who are babes and fear due to their lack of understanding?

You do know that in many of your posts you are all about how the church is SO mature that God don't NEED to do anything supernatural BUT now, you say the church is NOT mature and WHEN God does the supernatural, this is why churches fear.

So which is it... is the church mature that God don't have to move supernaturally anymore, or are they immature that when He does... they fear?

(BTW - the scripture is out of context for this topic)

Tone44 - No, we're not to fear evil, thus the reason why when God allows the discernment of a demon, we're to CAST it out.

Maybe the fear is so WE DON'T cast it out

[Slug1]

Many claim to have a personal relationship with Him; however, the proof of such lies in their walk, not in their talk. Many, who claim relationship with Him actually have just repeated a prayer, or made a statement but don't really know Him. Others rely on the scriptures, but they don't teach us to know Him, they teach us about Him. Should I write my autobiography, then all the readers of it would know a LOT about me...yet wouldn't know me at all. The same thing holds true with those who constantly harp about doctrine. Many of them know a lot about Him, but don't know Him in a personal, experiential, daily-walk with Him sort of way. These, and the group who know Him in name only, tend to fear His manifestations because His power takes them immediately from their comfort zone. If we truly know and trust Him, then we have no need of a comfort zone other than His presence with us. Another group are those who believe that a single doctrinal error damns one to eternal torture. By and large, this group is comprised of cessationists; consequently, God's power on display is, to them, automatically of the enemy. It HAS to be because if they're wrong about it, then they're hell bound. That is neither life nor abundant life...that is a life of cowering behind poor teaching and lack of understanding.

Personally, I love it when God shows up powerfully!

blessings,

Watchman

Hooah... well said!!

[Slug1]

Hi Slug1

I've never seen a demon being cast out of a person. I think it depends on the situation as to my reaction? I have no doubt He does this type of deliverance.
In the scripture, the man was known by the community as having this demonic activity. Maybe they did bad things to him, and were now going to be found out themselves. You know, like having guilt might cause you to push God away, so He cant see it. Maybe this kind of fear defends oneself, instead of feeling reverance and awe. Naturally, could be way out there as well.

Well, lets look deeper... Jesus returns to where He's "known" and they "welcome Him" (Luke 8:40). Those who welcome Him are those in v4 and 19.

Hmmmm, is this as it is in the Body of Christ today? Some fear and some don't? As we see in verses 40-56 we see some unbelief, doubts and some fear but not of the severity that caused people to ask Jesus to go away. I mean, in Gadarenes all Jesus did was cast a demon out, in v40-56, He healed and woman and He raised a child from death to life... so why not react in fear?

We see what "faith" can do (v48)... as I asked earlier, maybe people who say they KNOW God REALLY don't understand what FAITH is all about then? So when God does something supernaturally DUE TO FAITH, they FREAK OUT??

[Colight]

I'll bring on both quotes for this reply.

No, we are not to even "fear" anything of satan. Yet... we find that Christians do fear both satan and God when it comes to "supernatural" occurrences in church.

Colight, you mention that fear may be due to a Christian being a babe in Christ... well, is an ENTIRE church made up of ONLY babes? What about the leadership of the church, surely they are not babes in Christ? So when the pastor is empowered by the Holy Spirit to discern a demon in a person, and then cast it out of that person, the people in the congregation who DO feel fear from suddenly experiencing/witnessing the power of God manifest before them... the leadership of the church will counsel those who are babes and fear due to their lack of understanding?

You do know that in many of your posts you are all about how the church is SO mature that God don't NEED to do anything supernatural BUT now, you say the church is NOT mature and WHEN God does the supernatural, this is why churches fear.

So which is it... is the church mature that God don't have to move supernaturally anymore, or are they immature that when He does... they fear?

Yes entire Churches are full of spiritual babies, perhaps even as much as 90% of the Churches with in the nation of the USA are nothing but spiritual nurseries with no hope of ever maturing.
The leadership of these Churches are so caught up in emotionalism they fall apart at the slightest shake or quiver.
They are too busy looking for some sign or emotional high..so much so..that when real things occur they fall to pieces.
I have seen the pastors quit the ministry when life gave them a few knocks.
They screamed how could a loving God let this occur, when one close to them had passed on.

That was not some emotional high, so they had no idea how to handle it... therefore its GODs fault!!
Total lack of any sort of maturity or understanding of who and what God is, and this is in the leadership!!!

To think these type can even think about properly going about casting out some demon is rather laughable.

On the power of God...
God had a pillar of fire by night and a cloud by day lead the Children of Israel...
He even fed them the bread called mana every day...
And they still lacked Faith.

Faith is not gained from signs or witnessing the power of God. Only thru the renewal that occurs thru study and a change in ones thinking.

[Slug1]

Faith is not gained from signs or witnessing the power of God.

I agree with you and since you have stated this about 100 times, that means I've agreed with you about 100 times. Faith comes by hearing God.

Everything you said above the quoted part has nothing to do with this topic. Lets now move on to this topic... OK?

Why would a "faithful" God who does miraculous supernatural events in and through the Body of Christ today... cause fear in those who have accepted Jesus?

You brought up a good point as I understand what you said in a post... maybe they can't "tell" if it's of God or of satan when a supernatural event takes place in their church. Or NO supernatural events have EVER happened in their church and thus when God does supernatural events in other churches or places in general (we prayed for healing over a man last week while at an auction and God healed his injured back)... some fear or so they don't HAVE to fear, doubt and say it's not real.

I just brought up (post #22) the possibility that the fear isn't from God at all:

2 Tim 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

So maybe when people in the Body of Christ DO fear the casting out of a demon, this is satan causing the fear so they DON'T do it anymore or don't want to have ANYTHING to do with the power of God... OVER him? This will then enable him to continue to move freely with no "fear" of Christians casting out demons?

However, we can't discern that though based on the original scriptures from Luke 8. They just straight up feared Jesus due to His miraculous casting out of that demon(s) from the man. No way of telling if satan influenced that fear.

How bought that... the scripture in 2 Tim 1:7 says we have the spirit of "power", "love" and "sound mind".

So, what are you saying about Christians not being able to experience and express the "power" of God the same as they experience and express His "love" and "sound mind"?

Or you only accept the love and sound mind from God by ignore the "power"?

Look... as I said, it's not ABOUT the power of God, relationship have nothing to do with power of God. We are to seek God, worship God, serve God, love God because of WHO HE IS, not because of what He can do. I've preached that for a long time.

However, power of God IS about what HE wants to do and WHEN He does something supernaturally... we have people like you denying His power and based on the OP's scripture, we have people FEARING His power.

What's wrong with that entire picture... denying the power of God and also fearing the power of God??

[Watchman]

The question in the OP is kind of perplexing to me. Having been used to cast out demons, and having witnessed others being delivered from demons, and having witnessed the casting out of demons by others...I've NEVER heard anyone present on those occasions express fear, doubt, or anything but praise to the Lord for His workings. It seems to me the folks who are fearful have never seen the Lord working in this manner, or else they've only seen the counterfeit (which all of us know occurs.) Having been witness to both fake and genuine healings, I've never heard anyone present at the real deal do anything but give credit, praise, and glory to God for His work. Having been used to prophesy and having been present when others have prophesied, I've never heard anyone present do anything but praise God for His work, His goodness, and His presence. There is no fear in love. Perhaps the ones who are afraid of His powerful workings in Christ's body are truly either unbelievers or babes? Just my

blessings,

Watchman

[Slug1]

The question in the OP is kind of perplexing to me. Having been used to cast out demons, and having witnessed others being delivered from demons, and having witnessed the casting out of demons by others...I've NEVER heard anyone present on those occasions express fear, doubt, or anything but praise to the Lord for His workings.

AMEN... same here. However, I have had babes in Christ come later and ask MANY questions. Not that they had fear but I was able to discern that the questions were preventing fear as fear was creeping at "the door" so to say? I'm sure if they didn't come to me for answers, then satan would work in them and get them to fear.

So... what about many others who NEVER got counseled or received answers and that fear is upon them so any "future" occurrence of casting out a demon will convince them it's fake and they leave the church in search of one where supernatural occurrences NEVER occur.

Do you SEE the pattern here? Or may I be bold and say... the PURPOSE of this fear?!!

It seems to me the folks who are fearful have never seen the Lord working in this manner, or else they've only seen the counterfeit (which all of us know occurs.)

100% agree... been on both ends myself.

I believe that Colight has ONLY witnessed the counterfeit and his denial of God's power in and through the Body of Christ today... is PART of the result of purpose of counterfeit signs/wonders.

We know that counterfeit signs/wonders are to "lure" people AWAY from God... so, DENIAL and FEAR is a form of LURING people AWAY from God. ONCE lured away, this then prevents Christians from a FULL relationship with Him so that when He wants to move in power through them either when He wants or needs to... He can freely because they DON'T deny nor fear the supernatural.

In the meantime, we have Christians not serving God at all anymore as they WHOOP it up in emotional madness and chaos. OR... we have the other extreme where Christians are DENYING the power of God and ANY supernatural occurrence is false and they point their fingers at those who are WHOOPING it up in emotional madness and they say MATURE Christians don't need God to manifest in power.

In the meantime... there ARE those in the PROPER order and proper maturity where HE DOES manifest in power and when He does... the GLORY is given to Him in JOYFUL jubilation, praise and worship!

Having been witness to both fake and genuine healings, I've never heard anyone present at the real deal do anything but give credit, praise, and glory to God for His work.

Amen.. same here... even out on the street like last week when we ended up praying for the healing of a man who had a back injury and was in the hospital the week prior. Praised God!

Now... as for a demon, when this has happened... if the demon speaks or manifests in a powerful supernatural manner (contorts the flesh, changes the voice of the person, speaks a language no one understands and clearly, the person never knew, etc) this can put babes in Christ... ON EDGE. Specially when the demon is calling out for mercy as the casting out is about to force it from the flesh of the person.

Having been used to prophesy and having been present when others have prophesied, I've never heard anyone present do anything but praise God for His work, His goodness, and His presence.

Hooah, same here!

There is no fear in love. Perhaps the ones who are afraid of His powerful workings in Christ's body are truly either unbelievers or babes? Just my

Which is WHY I always ask for people to define the word... "UNbeliever"!

[Protective Angel]

Faith is not gained from signs or witnessing the power of God. Only thru the renewal that occurs thru study and a change in ones thinking.

My friend I tell you Gods power is great. Have you not experienced that power?

These witnessed and feared long ago.
Mark 4
37 And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full.

38 And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?


39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

41 And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?




They feared even when they should have known he had the power all along to save them.

[MaryFreeman]

Hey Slugger!

I wish to express my intent to answer the OP extensively as one who has suffered possession and deliverance.... Tomorrow..... When I have had sleep and can recall scripture with more clarity.... Hopefully you will be waiting for my post!

Mary....