Christians that "fear" Jesus?!

[quiet dove]

I agree!

OK... I completely agree with you but I have to add a comment. The Body of Christ is MADE up of many parts. Paul speaks very clearly about all this in 1 Cor 12. The problem, no... "A" problem is this fear some parts have in relation to HOW God is using other parts of the Body!

So what is the root cause for Christians to fear walking into another house of God that happens to have a "part" of the Body that is a prophet, or a healer, or a person who has discernment and is thus key in the deliverance of people who do have or are oppressed with a demon? I mean I can drop in examples of any or all the gifts of the Holy Spirit but I used this topic of "deliverance" for this thread because... it does generate the most FEAR in many throughout the entire Body of Christ.

Amen!

So... where or how is satan putting in the stumbling block to prevent this smooth flow of operation, goal reaching and relationship building with Christ and His purpose... through the Body of Christ?

Christ desired how the Apostles would function when they spread the Gospel, then He empowered them. Then Christ desired how the Body would function when they spread the Gospel, and He empowered the 72. THEN He desired how the "rest" of the Body of Christ would function when they spread the Gospel and He not only gave the entire Body of Christ the Great Commission, but He empowered the ENTIRE Body as well when the Holy Spirit came upon the ENTIRE Body of Christ.

SO... how is satan gonna prevent the Body from functioning according to the way the Body... should??!!

We diligently seek..we must diligently discern those whom we choose to follow. And most are not doing that, therefore it all boils down to the individual is not ...so the whole is not. And because this is so, the wheat have allowed the tares, not only to thrive within, but to lead. And the sheep cannot discern their Shepherd's voice from the shepherds of the goats.

Since the false is not discerned, neither is the truth....and so anything beyond a persons understanding is labeled false, and is met with fear.

At this point, Satan has well placed goat leading and they well permeating the sheep and the sheep, not having the discernment they should, are a mess. Confused, fearful...disconnected....for the most part, the sheep live in the world and are not separated from it.

It all comes down to Satan's hindering the Body because the Body is not in submissive obedience...and is lacking discernment..in a big way at this point.

We know that there are false signs and wonders...only walking in the Spirit, submissive obedience and thus discernment can tell the different.

[Slug1]

We diligently seek..we must diligently discern those whom we choose to follow. And most are not doing that, therefore it all boils down to the individual is not ...so the whole is not. And because this is so, the wheat have allowed the tares, not only to thrive within, but to lead. And the sheep cannot discern their Shepherd's voice from the shepherds of the goats.

Strong point that I bet many in the Body of Christ don't consider or even realize. Those "tares" are elevated to position of leadership and they are NOT only limited to those in the pews.

They lead as well as follow and those WHO follow those who are tares, is this as bad as following those who are false prophets?

Hmmmmm....

Since the false is not discerned, neither is the truth....and so anything beyond a persons understanding is labeled false, and is met with fear.

I agree!

Sheep know the sound of God's voice... so sheep who are deceived BY tares in leadership or by false teachers/prophets ONLY hear the voice of the tare or false teaching. So they can't discern the true voice of God and they also won't be able to discern "spiritually" when God is moving in power on a supernatural level.

So this CAN be a reason for some in the Body of Christ to fear when God is moving. Not the "reverent" fear which is spiritual in nature but the "I'm afraid and scared" type of fear that is physical and emotional. We are to "fear" the Lord (which causes submission before God)... but this thread is about being scared (fear) which causes doubt, strife, anger, accusation, etc.

We really have to differentiate between the two for this thread to flow in accordance with the OP

I'll watch the vid later... I still have homework to complete which I need to put priority to.

[Slug1]

Maybe most don't really believe that He that is in them is greater than He that is in the world. Seems most in leadership in the churches etc like to stunt the spiritual growth of those they see as being shepherds over.
Protecting the sheep to their own detriment. Causing them to stumble by lack of experience.

You mean a pastor runs the church his way, and not the way God would lead him too?

Sure... seems this is "a" problem in the Body of Christ also.

So in such a church, a visiting speaker comes and during the course of the service, for the very first time in that church... God heals a person, or the speaker gives a prophetic word as the Holy Spirit leads, or a demon is discerned (by the power of the Holy Spirit) and the speaker casts it out of the person by the authority he has through Christ.

If the people in that congregation react negatively to what God has done through the guest speaker... we know the persecution received is because of Jesus and what "He" just did.

So... is the fear of God evident (they would praise and glorify God for the miracle) or is the fear fleshly and they never want that guest speaker to EVER return because what God just did... scared them (the type of FEAR this thread is all about)?

[quiet dove]

I'll watch the vid later... I still have homework to complete which I need to put priority to.

Don't worry about the video...I watched it again and it is off topic...I will go back and take it out....it is a good video though.

[quiet dove]

Strong point that I bet many in the Body of Christ don't consider or even realize. Those "tares" are elevated to position of leadership and they are NOT only limited to those in the pews.

They lead as well as follow and those WHO follow those who are tares, is this as bad as following those who are false prophets?

Hmmmmm....

I agree!

Sheep know the sound of God's voice... so sheep who are deceived BY tares in leadership or by false teachers/prophets ONLY hear the voice of the tare or false teaching. So they can't discern the true voice of God and they also won't be able to discern "spiritually" when God is moving in power on a supernatural level.

So this CAN be a reason for some in the Body of Christ to fear when God is moving. Not the "reverent" fear which is spiritual in nature but the "I'm afraid and scared" type of fear that is physical and emotional. We are to "fear" the Lord (which causes submission before God)... but this thread is about being scared (fear) which causes doubt, strife, anger, accusation, etc.

We really have to differentiate between the two for this thread to flow

So you are saying they fear God...sorry, I guess that went by me. I took it as fear of "is it really from God".

I guess it didn't occur to me that being delivered from a demon or being healed from sickness would make professing believers afraid of the one who delivered and healed...lol

I reckon I need to think on it some more...

[Slug1]

So you are saying they fear God...sorry, I guess that went by me. I took it as fear of "is it really from God".

I guess it didn't occur to me that being delivered from a demon or being healed from sickness would make professing believers afraid of the one who delivered and healed...lol

I reckon I need to think on it some more...

You got it right... I can understand a babe in Christ fearing a miraculous move of God due to inexperience. But... 10, 20, 30, 40 years as a Christian and they STILL fear a miraculous movement of God?

Are they STILL a babe?

Is what they are being taught or what they are teaching the cause for the fear when God moves miraculously because it goes against what they are taught or what they are teaching?

[Michelle71]

You mean a pastor runs the church his way, and not the way God would lead him too?

Sure... seems this is "a" problem in the Body of Christ also.

So in such a church, a visiting speaker comes and during the course of the service, for the very first time in that church... God heals a person, or the speaker gives a prophetic word as the Holy Spirit leads, or a demon is discerned (by the power of the Holy Spirit) and the speaker casts it out of the person by the authority he has through Christ.

If the people in that congregation react negatively to what God has done through the guest speaker... we know the persecution received is because of Jesus and what "He" just did.

So... is the fear of God evident (they would praise and glorify God for the miracle) or is the fear fleshly and they never want that guest speaker to EVER return because what God just did... scared them (the type of FEAR this thread is all about)?

It seems this fear comes from being indoctrinated rather than educated in the true workings of God. The amount of religiosity displayed is a sure sign of working from indoctrination rather than the Spirit of God.

Education comes from experience. A person can be a Christian for 2 or 3 years and have more experience with God than someone who has supposedly walked with Him for 20, 30 or 40 years.

[quiet dove]

You got it right... I can understand a babe in Christ fearing a miraculous move of God due to inexperience. But... 10, 20, 30, 40 years as a Christian and they STILL fear a miraculous movement of God?

Are they STILL a babe?

Is what they are being taught or what they are teaching the cause for the fear when God moves miraculously because it goes against what they are taught or what they are teaching?

Yea, I think babe in Christ is it, pretty much. And from the stagnant place they sit, the rest comes into play...lack of understanding and discernment, and a whole bunch of stagnant problems

I was raised Lutheran and totally mind blown with my first experiences with such things...but just from personal experience...and some trial and error...discernment...the Spirit, with your spirit, is lacking because it is in such communication we are able to tell the true from the false...and if we can do that, then fear of such things is necessary with the false, but non-existent with the true...?

I was at reading in Romans 14 this morning, maybe there is some wisdom there in dealing with believers who are yet still babes? Not that we should dispute over it, but that instead of disputing...encourage the growth into being an adult and no longer a babe.......which still being a babe after many years is also being lukewarm...to some extent, maybe not the full definition of lukewarm but...those who are still babes need to be exhorted toward growth, but not stomped on in such a way that would discourage the very growth you would desire them to proceed toward and in?

a first things first thing...got a start at "a" to get to "b"...and without growth first, which requires communication with the Spirit... discernment is out the window. No communication with the Spirit residing within...no understanding can be expected...not real and true understanding.

Not sure that came out right.

[Slug1]

Yea, I think babe in Christ is it, pretty much. And from the stagnant place they sit, the rest comes into play...lack of understanding and discernment, and a whole bunch of stagnant problems

I was raised Lutheran and totally mind blown with my first experiences with such things...but just from personal experience...and some trial and error...discernment...the Spirit, with your spirit, is lacking because it is in such communication we are able to tell the true from the false...and if we can do that, then fear of such things is necessary with the false, but non-existent with the true...?

I was at reading in Romans 14 this morning, maybe there is some wisdom there in dealing with believers who are yet still babes? Not that we should dispute over it, but that instead of disputing...encourage the growth into being an adult and no longer a babe.......which still being a babe after many years is also being lukewarm...to some extent, maybe not the full definition of lukewarm but...those who are still babes need to be exhorted toward growth, but not stomped on in such a way that would discourage the very growth you would desire them to proceed toward and in?

a first things first thing...got a start at "a" to get to "b"...and without growth first, which requires communication with the Spirit... discernment is out the window. No communication with the Spirit residing within...no understanding can be expected...not real and true understanding.

Not sure that came out right.

HOOAH!!

Growth does begin however, with identification of what is causing a "lack" of growth.

In this threads case... "fear" or being scared of God doing the miraculous, is the problem to discuss.

[Robert Callow]

Has anyone considered this, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...18&version=ASV

[MaryFreeman]

Luk 8:26-37 LITV And they sailed down to the country of the Gadarenes, which is across from Galilee. (27) And He going out onto the land, a certain man out of the city met Him, who had demons from a long time. (And he put no garment on; and he did not stay in a house, but among the tombs). (28) And seeing Jesus, and crying out, he fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, What to me and to You, Jesus, Son of God the Most High? I beg You, do not torment me. (29) For He charged the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For many times it had seized him, and he was bound with chains and fetters, being guarded. And tearing apart the bonds, he was driven by the demons into the deserted places. (30) And Jesus asked him, saying, What is your name? And he said, Legion (because many demons entered into him). (31) And they begged Him that He not order them to go away into the abyss. (32) And there was a herd of many pigs feeding there in the mount. And they begged Him that He would allow them to enter into those. And He allowed them. (33) And coming out from the man, the demons entered into the pigs; and the herd rushed down the cliff into the lake and was choked. (34) And seeing the thing, those feeding the pigs fled. And leaving, they reported to the city and to the farms. (35) And they went out to see the thing happening, and came to Jesus. And they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed and of sound mind. And they were afraid. (36) And also those who had seen related to them how the one having been demon-possessed was healed. (37) And all the multitude of the neighborhood of the Gadarenes were seized with a great fear. And they asked Him to depart from them. And entering into the boat, He returned.

I don't quite know how to start this any other way than to just plunge in.... I'm kinda that way sooooo....

I don't think I surprised anyone there....

I can't remember much from that day.... But I do know I was with my grandmother at a Womens Aglow meeting.... I had gone up for prayer afterward.... I must admit I wasn't walking with the Lord at that time and so cannot explain why I thought He would heal me.... In hindsight I know now that He had a plan for that all along and had orchestrated the whole thing.... That was the day I rededicated my life to him.... And then the lady (who said she could sense demons around me after the whole thing happened) commanded demons to release me and let me be.... And I heard myself scream.... I don't know if I fell to the floor or just sank.... I think the latter.... The lady tightened her grip on me and I was suddenly surrounded by women screaming "GET OUT!".... Bless them.... They meant well lol.... Womens Aglow meetings had a male overseer.... A man who represented God.... I guess to keep us females from losing control of our flighty imaginations (If you're sensing sarcasm.... You have the feelers of an ANT!).... And when this lady asked what my name was (which was weird because I was almost certain I had told her my name before I hit the floor).... And nothing would come out of my mouth.... He told her "It's Legion".... Ok no.... I never ran around stark naked.... Nor did I have the strength of ten Ugandan warriors.... But I believe demons are much more subtle today than they were when Jesus confronted Legion.... All the better to wreak havoc without detection.... Now a days they are called Schizophrenia.... Bipolar disorder.... Manic Depressive.... Sociopathic... Sadism.... Masochism.... And doctors drug the bodies so they aren't much use to the demons they are hosting.... But it is only temporary....

Yikes! Back on track....

When the man said "It's Legion" my head turned without any conscious intent on my part.... And when I looked at him I wondered why my face was contorted in such extreme hatred for a man I didn't even know and who was just trying to help me.... If ever I doubted the hatred satan and his demons had for us it went away that day.... Details are sketchy in my mind at this point.... But I know the lady who had hold on me was speaking to Legion and the women were all screaming "GET OUT!" (LoL).... And if anything happened between that and this next event.... I don't remember it.... But I remember being lifted.... About armpit high to an ENORMOUS man (I'm not very big.... So my idea of enormous and yours may vary greatly).... To where my head and my shoulders and arms (which were tucked up next to my shoulders [I think]) were the only things touching the floor.... And then I was being shaken.... Like you do when something was stuck in a cloth sack and you have to shake it real good to get it out.... The angel (who else could it be?) shook and shook me and then gently laid me back down.... And I remember being exhausted....

I went home and apparently my grandmother had told my mother.... And my mother laid into me.... I don't know why.... She swore she was just testing the spirits.... And yet I still remember to this day the look on her face.... It was not christian.... I will just say that.... It was more trying to prove I was faking something.... Which is probably why I have such an aversion to folks who do that a lot.... And anyone who uses the phrase "testing the spirits".... I truly believe that quote from John is widely abused by people who are a) afraid to admit biblical events are happening in this day and age (where we are so educated and enlightened we couldn't possibly believe demons are still in action.... And Jesus doesn't move in polite society anymore....).... Or b) Are oblivious.... Those of us who were desensitized by tv and movies.... Horror films and Scooby Doo (yes I went there).... And now those folks say there are no such things as demons and such.... It's just a movie right?

I saw no cameras....

And the next day I had huge bruises in the form of a HUGE man's hands on my hips....

I don't know if my testimony addressed the OP as extensively as I intended it to or not.... But there it is FWIW....

[Slug1]

Has anyone considered this, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...18&version=ASV

John 4:¹⁷ Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. ¹⁸ There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. ¹⁹ We love Him because He first loved us.


Good scripture... so how would you apply the context of this scripture to this topic?

[ClayInHisHands]

Has anyone considered this, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...18&version=ASV

To Anyone else who wants to comment also, not just Robert.


1 John 4:18

American Standard Version (ASV)


18 There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath punishment; and he that feareth is not made perfect in love.



Would it be correct in interpreting this to mean that There is no fear in love(there's no fear when we have Christ in us) and perfect love(Jesus) casts out fear(removes fear from within those who belong to Him) because fear has punishment(because those who belong to Christ don't have punishment); he(a Christian) that feareth is not made perfect in love(doesn't truly abide in Christ)...and therefore is lost?

[MaryFreeman]

To Anyone else who wants to comment also, not just Robert.


1 John 4:18

American Standard Version (ASV)


18 There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath punishment; and he that feareth is not made perfect in love.



Would it be correct in interpreting this to mean that There is no fear in love(there's no fear when we have Christ in us) and perfect love(Jesus) casts out fear(removes fear from within those who belong to Him) because fear has punishment(because those who belong to Christ don't have punishment); he(a Christian) that feareth is not made perfect in love(doesn't truly abide in Christ)...and therefore is lost?

That depends....

What kind of fear are we speaking of?

Because the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom....


Job_28:28 And to man He said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom! And to turn from evil is understanding.
Psa_64:9 And all men shall fear and shall declare the work of God; yea, they shall in wisdom consider His work.
Psa_111:10 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom; all who do them have a good understanding; His praise is standing forever!
Pro_1:7 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pro_9:10 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Pro_15:33 The fear of Jehovah is instruction in wisdom, and before honor is humility.


H3373
ירא
yârê'
yaw-ray'
From H3372; fearing; morally reverent: - afraid, fear (-ful).

As with any definition.... We need to choose which one fits.... Which one is logical.... Why would anyone who walks with the Lord be afraid of Him? Conversely.... Why would one who does not walk with Him reverence Him? So when we use the word fear.... What are we trying to say?

Depends on who we are....

[MaryFreeman]

Which brings me to a question.... Come to think on it....

Is the christian who fears the miraculous really scared of it?

Or for that matter.... Is everyone who reacts negatively when faced with the supernatural reacting out of fear?

Or are some acting out of ignorance? Or maybe they are like my mother and had other issues clouding their view?

And as pertains to ClayInHisHands....

What if fearing the Lord makes us fearless? I mean as far as everything else goes....

I mean because when you witness the awesome power and glory of God Almighty.... Doesn't everything else seem rather.... Small?