Christians that "fear" Jesus?!

[ClayInHisHands]

That depends....

What kind of fear are we speaking of?

Because the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom....


Job_28:28 And to man He said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom! And to turn from evil is understanding.
Psa_64:9 And all men shall fear and shall declare the work of God; yea, they shall in wisdom consider His work.
Psa_111:10 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom; all who do them have a good understanding; His praise is standing forever!
Pro_1:7 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pro_9:10 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Pro_15:33 The fear of Jehovah is instruction in wisdom, and before honor is humility.


H3373
ירא
yârê'
yaw-ray'
From H3372; fearing; morally reverent: - afraid, fear (-ful).

As with any definition.... We need to choose which one fits.... Which one is logical.... Why would anyone who walks with the Lord be afraid of Him? Conversely.... Why would one who does not walk with Him reverence Him? So when we use the word fear.... What are we trying to say?

Depends on who we are....

I meant the meaning to apply to those who fear losing control of things in our life, or who may have a subtle fear of simply not wanting anything to happen to our spouses or children and even a wider range of things such as our lifestyles etc. While most of these things are obviously opposed by God for us to fear. I think some fear these things in a more subtle way and deny that they are even a result of fear.

[Slug1]

That depends....

What kind of fear are we speaking of?

Because the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom....


Job_28:28 And to man He said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom! And to turn from evil is understanding.
Psa_64:9 And all men shall fear and shall declare the work of God; yea, they shall in wisdom consider His work.
Psa_111:10 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom; all who do them have a good understanding; His praise is standing forever!
Pro_1:7 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pro_9:10 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Pro_15:33 The fear of Jehovah is instruction in wisdom, and before honor is humility.


H3373
ירא
yârê'
yaw-ray'
From H3372; fearing; morally reverent: - afraid, fear (-ful).

As with any definition.... We need to choose which one fits.... Which one is logical.... Why would anyone who walks with the Lord be afraid of Him? Conversely.... Why would one who does not walk with Him reverence Him? So when we use the word fear.... What are we trying to say?

Depends on who we are....

AMEN... "fear" for this topic is NOT that type of fear that brings people into submission to God's ways and His will, statutes, wisdom, etc.

The fear this topic is about is the type that causes people to be "scared" when God moves in a supernatural manner and the topic's example is when demons are cast out of people by the authority OF and in the name OF Christ.

I've been praying that this has finally been made clear.

[MaryFreeman]

ClayInHisHands....

I have done a word study on the word fear as used in the bible.... And what I found has me going all nondenom.... I am excited and intend to post it all here as soon as I can write up something that brings it all together cohesively....

Mary....

[Slug1]

And anyone who uses the phrase "testing the spirits".... I truly believe that quote from John is widely abused by people who are a) afraid to admit biblical events are happening in this day and age (where we are so educated and enlightened we couldn't possibly believe demons are still in action.... And Jesus doesn't move in polite society anymore....)....

Amen... testing the spirits can only be done AFTER a person is discipled in what testing of spirits... is all about.

And the next day I had huge bruises in the form of a HUGE man's hands on my hips....

I have had hand shaped bruises a few times over the last 4 years while in spiritual battle.

I don't know if my testimony addressed the OP as extensively as I intended it to or not.... But there it is FWIW....

It has in the sense that deliverance is REAL, demons are REAL and the need for the Body of Christ to understand and STOP being afraid (fearing God's supernatural WORK)... is REAL!

[Michelle71]

Yare-fear description in the dictionary not only describes the type of fear that leads to repentance/worship/praise of God. It can also cause a person to run and hide from Him.

Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Maybe those who are fearful of the displays of God, and hide from the authority of Christ shown through His servants are those who are in the most bondage. Those who need the most deliverance.

There seems to be a ladder of progression of fear as well.

Arats - dread
Yare - put in fear
Rakak - be faint
Chathath - dismayed
Chaphaz - tremble


Maybe there are counters to fear that can be found in the scriptures that would be helpful by using the above words and looking them up, and reading in context where they are found.

[Slug1]

Yare-fear description in the dictionary not only describes the type of fear that leads to repentance/worship/praise of God. It can also cause a person to run and hide from Him.




Maybe those who are fearful of the displays of God, and hide from the authority of Christ shown through His servants are those who are in the most bondage. Those who need the most deliverance.

There seems to be a ladder of progression of fear as well.

Arats - dread
Yare - put in fear
Rakak - be faint
Chathath - dismayed
Chaphaz - tremble


Maybe there are counters to fear that can be found in the scriptures that would be helpful by using the above words and looking them up, and reading in context where they are found.

These are some good points!

Seems Adam now "knew" he'd done wrong and thus... was afraid?

Your comment "those who need the most deliverance"... you may not realize it but this is a strong statement. I'll point you to Mary's testimony when the pastor (male) named the spirit and she (it) looked at him in anger. I have seen Christians literally AVOID other Christians who exercise the gifts of discernment or prophecy. When they are doing "wrong" behind closed doors... they avoid prophets

Ya ever wonder why a person who "hates" God or says that God doesn't exist AT ALL (an atheist by definition)... how they are "offended" by a Bible you may have sitting on your desk at work? They aren't offended, its the spirit that is oppressing them into "being" an atheist that is offended and their instrument or "puppet" to make the Bible go away is through the words and actions of atheists against the Body of Christ and the Bible.

Anyway, when demons and spirits have SUCH influence over people (Christians and/or non-Christians) ... if you observe them, they will avoid Christians who exercise the gift of discernment. I have a friend who exercises the gift of discernment and due to my position in the church God has me serving, when this person "discerns" a spirit, they tell me. In the course of several altar calls over the years the information this friend has given to me (and I to the senior pastor) and we pray over the person IDed with a spirit... the discernment has never failed to be accurate. People are set free from demonic oppression. This is no matter where we travel also or whatever church or location we are at.

Yet in a church where many would be afraid of this freedom (deliverance) taking place in their churches... what does this show us? Or should I say it this way... what does this show, THEM??

[Saved7]

I'm referring to the same God who used heathen nations in the OT to bring discipline. The same God who gave satan permission to destroy everything in Job's life except for Job himself. We still serve the same God. The devil is God's devil.

I have never, ever ... EVER ... successfully cast a demon out of anybody without there first being repentance and submission to God. Because without that, it's an exercise in futility and that person will just go back to what got them bound to begin with and end up in the same state. Because the power to cast out demons, is God's power, and it can never be used against God's own purposes.

Now, having said that, I've had situations in my own life where I asked specific things of God, to remove everything that is not of Him and to bring me to that place where He alone is sufficient. Well ... all hell broke loose after that. I could have just stood there and cried "the debil is attacking halps!" ... but I knew better. I knew these things were tailored by God to answer my prayers and so in those situations I had to repent and submit. Because, we either believe that God is supreme, or not. We either believe that God hears us, or not. We either believe that God has everything under control, or not. How many times are we rebuking satan without submitting to God (and thereby rebuking God Himself in our ignorance)?

If we really believe that God is in control, then there are no "good" or "bad" things in our lives; there are only God things. That includes hardships and everything we don't like and everything that causes us pain. Because we can't have it both ways. Paul tells us to be thankful for everything. No qualifiers. Everything means everything.

We serve a mighty God, a powerful God, a God who doesn't care about our temporary comfort if it costs us eternal things. He really doesn't. If there is anything between Himself and His child, then He is determined to remove that thing, no matter what. Light affliction, Paul calls that. Now, pain isn't "light" oftentimes, and is painful and hard. BUT ... in comparison to the eternal ... that's when it's light. You have to have a true basis of comparison (the eternal) to correctly judge temporary things for what they are.

Our god deserves worship and submission, in all things, all the time. What He gets instead, is mumbling and grumbling about everything we don't like in our lives, as if He was an awful Pappa who is in control of nothing much at all and who doesn't care about anything.

The miraculous occurs when the eternal kicks the temporary in the shins and puts it in its rightful place. If we want to see the miraculous, then we have to be of the same mindset of Jesus about who our God is, and be 100% submitted to Him in all things. It is from that place we will see the truth about Jesus destroying all the works of the enemy; within us and around us.

Gotta start within first, though ...

It's a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. For our God is a consuming fire! The terror the enemy brings has NOTHING on the terror of the LORD. These days, satan is the least of my worries. Because he is LESS THAN NOTHING compared to our God. That's why Jesus could flick him away like the gnat he is. Because satan may be that powerful lion compared to man's power when we're separated from our Source ... but he is less than a gnat compared to God's power that is available to us when we are completely reconnected to our God and Source of all things and 100% submitted to Him in all things.

To see God's power, we have to understand Whose power it is and what He's actually capable of. He is G O D. So proceed with caution.

Sorry Slug, lemme know if I'm hijacking. Passionate soapbox is passionate.

Couldn't give you reps, gotta spread some around. But reps reps and more reps!!!

God has recently begun to remind me of that part that He is in charge, even in those yucky situations that we don't like. We need to learn to pray in accordance with that knowledge, that He is orchestrating everything for HIS PURPOSES instead of praying like He doesn't see or hear us.

[Saved7]

Instead of saying a "lack" of faith, can it be a lack of "understanding" what faith is all about?

I suppose you could say that too. I mean, to me a lack of understanding creates a lack of faith. As the scriptures say, "my people perish for lack of knowledge".

[Slug1]

I suppose you could say that too. I mean, to me a lack of understanding creates a lack of faith. As the scriptures say, "my people perish for lack of knowledge".

I will say this, some of the most faithful people I know have no clue what faith is... all they do is DO!! No matter what God wants, they JUMP and ask questions on the way UP, NO questions to God before they jumped. They don't HAVE time to understand faith... they are TO BUSY executing FAITHFULLY!!

Experience IS the best teacher!

People can be in FULL understanding of what faith is... however, UNTIL they execute faith, all that education and knowledge amounts to nothing.

[quiet dove]

HOOAH!!

Growth does begin however, with identification of what is causing a "lack" of growth.

In this threads case... "fear" or being scared of God doing the miraculous, is the problem to discuss.

Being afraid of the miraculous...when it is miraculous that we are saved in the first place...

[Scooby_Snacks]

John 4:¹⁷ Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. ¹⁸ There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. ¹⁹ We love Him because He first loved us.


Good scripture... so how would you apply the context of this scripture to this topic?

That scripture fits with my original thought, that the fear is about them not about God so much as Him seeing all of them. They are
afraid that their sins or even hurt pain shame from others will be found out and the thought of that brings them torment. I mean, a person can go to church, be singing or listening to a sermon, and feel relatively safe in regard to their inner stuff..stuff that is hidden and tucked neatly away. But to think there is a powerful God at work in the room, powerful enough to cast out a demon..that safety in hiddeness loses its power to stay hidden. So I said guilt, and I guess that the guilt brings on the desire to push away the light, instead of allowing the light to heal them of it.

This was pertaining to the original scripture concerning the man with a legion scripture.

Now, I would like to be notified when a thread comes up regarding the false manifestations and the real ones. This is one reason I havent been to a charismatic church in ...20 years.

[amazzin]

Having the "Fear of God" and being "Afraid of God" are two different things....Moses had the Fear of God when he saw the supernatural/miraculous. The people of Israel were afraid of God when they saw the supernatural/miraculous

[Slug1]

Having the "Fear of God" and being "Afraid of God" are two different things....Moses had the Fear of God when he saw the supernatural/miraculous. The people of Israel were afraid of God when they saw the supernatural/miraculous

Hey Amazzin, God bless ya!

Today, those who are "afraid," why do they avoid Christians or whole churches where God does manifest supernaturally?

[amazzin]

Hey Amazzin, God bless ya!

Today, those who are "afraid," why do they avoid Christians or whole churches where God does manifest supernaturally?

Because the manifest glory of God is synonymous with the supernatural. Being in the manifest glory of God (supernatural atmosphere) means that nothing is hidden from God and it makes some Christians afraid. If we examine the contrast between the children of Israel and Moses, we will understand the difference between a person in the church that fears God and a person in the church who doesn’t fear God.

All of them got delivered from Egypt right? They are all a type of church, are’t they? We are not talking about someone out there who is sleeping in and doesn’t want a thing to do with church. We are not even talking about the religious ones who think they’re saved. We are talking about the ones who are actually delivered from Egypt.

If we contrast between the life of Moses and the children of Israel we’ll understand the difference between a person who has come out of the world, born again and fears God versus a person, that is….. saved, sort-of-speak, doesn’t fear God. Right?

Moses feared God. And a person who fears God their number one passion is to please the heart of God and to have his presence.

The line we have just drawn is those in the church who have people who serve God for what He can do for them and those in the church who serve God for who He is. Those who serve God for who He is - Fear him. Those who serve God for what He can do-serve Him for something they can get from him. They lack the Fear of God. They are the ones who will continually say, when pressure hits “What is better for me”.

You will serve who you Fear. If you Fear man, you will serve man. If you fear God, you will serve God.

So, if you fear man, you will serve yourself. That is where all fear and intimidation comes from. Any area of your life you fear, you still haven’t given it to God. You still own it, You haven’t brought it to the cross. When you fear God, you get free from the fear of man. And the worst fear of man is the fear for your own self.

Let me wrap this up. Go to Philippians 2:12. Please read this like God is speaking directly to you.

Phil 2:12
12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with,…….WTH FEAR & TREMBLING !!!!!!!

Oh!! I thought the fear of God was to respect him! That’s what you get for thinking ….. instead of reading!

There is a trembling that is healthy. It draws us to Him. It doesn’t repel us if we fear Him. Moses exceedingly feared God but he drew near to him.

Now, what about the children of Israel? As long as God is doing what they want, when they want it – they’re praising and even being obedient. But when His presence is not manifesting, not doing what they want, when they want it – what are they doing? Complaining!!

The prophet Isaiah says

Isa 11:
2The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.

One of the manifestations of the HS is the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord. It makes you fell all clean inside

But I must end with Psalms 25. Jesus said “God gives His HS to those who obey Him”. I found out that we, as His children, can cry out for the Spirit of the Fear of God

Ps 25:9-12
9The humble He guides in justice,
And the humble He teaches His way.
10All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth,
To such as keep His covenant and His testimonies.
11For Your name's sake, O LORD,
Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.
12Who is the man that fears the LORD?
Him shall He teach in the way He chooses.

The fear of the Lord and humility are synonymous. They’re the same thing.

[Slug1]

Because the manifest glory of God is synonimous with the supernatural. Being in the manifest glory of God (supernatural atmorpohere) means that nothing is hiden from God and it makes some Christians afraid. If we examine the contrast between the children of Israel and Moses, we will understand the difference between a person in the church that fears God and a person in the church who doesn’t fear God.

All of them got delivered from Egypt right? They are all a type of church, aren’t they? We are not talking about someone out there who is sleeping in and doesn’t want a thing to do with church. We are not even talking about the religious ones who think they’re saved. We are talking about the ones who are actually delivered from Egypt.

If we contrast between the life of Moses and the children of Israel we’ll understand the difference between a person who has come out of the world, born again and fears God versus a person, that is….. saved, sort-of-speak, doesn’t fear God. Right?

Moses feared God. And a person who fears God their number one passion is to please the heart of God and to have his presence.

The line we have just drawn is those in the church who have people who serve God for what He can do for them and those in the church who serve God for who He is. Those who serve God for who He is - Fear him. Those who serve God for what He can do-serve Him for something they can get from him. They lack the Fear of God. They are the ones who will continually say, when pressure hits “What is better for me”.

You will serve who you Fear. If you Fear man, you will serve man. If you fear God, you will serve God.

So, if you fear man, you will serve yourself. That is where all fear and intimidation comes from. Any area of your life you fear, you still haven’t given it to God. You still own it, You haven’t brought it to the cross. When you fear God, you get free from the fear of man. And the worst fear of man is the fear for your own self.

Let me wrap this up. Go to Philippians 2:12. Please read this like God is speaking directly to you.

Phil 2:12
12Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with,…….WTH FEAR & TREMBLING !!!!!!!

Oh!! I thought the fear of God was to respect him! That’s what you get for thinking ….. instead of reading!

There is a trembling that is healthy. It draws us to Him. It doesn’t repel us if we fear Him. Moses exceedingly feared God but he drew near to him.

Now, what about the children of Israel? As long as God is doing what they want, when they want it – they’re praising and even being obedient. But when His presence is not manifesting, not doing what they want, when they want it – what are they doing? Complaining!!

The prophet Isaiah says

Isa 11:
2The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.

One of the manifestations of the HS is the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord. It makes you fell all clean inside

But I must end with Psalms 25. Jesus said “God gives His HS to those who obey Him”. I found out that we, as His children, can cry out for the Spirit of the Fear of God

Ps 25:9-12
9The humble He guides in justice,
And the humble He teaches His way.
10All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth,
To such as keep His covenant and His testimonies.
11For Your name's sake, O LORD,
Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.
12Who is the man that fears the LORD?
Him shall He teach in the way He chooses.

The fear of the Lord and humility are synonymous. They’re the same thing.

Somewhere on this message board I posted within this past month that what Israel had to do physically, as Christians today, we do spiritually. This post is a prime example of what I was meaning!

Check your Pm inbox!