some questions that have I have been struggling with

[cantcme2]

hey everyone, first time post. i am Christian but there are some issues/questions that have kind of bothering me. if you could help me with the answers that would be great, sorry if it rambles a bit:

1.do people who never get the chance to know Christ go to hell? the doctrine i have always heard is that only those who believe in Jesus go to heaven. if that is true, what about, for example, the tribal people in Africa who live and die never hearing about Jesus? i started thinking about this because i was talking with people about the whole subject of 'predestination', and it made me think that people who live in those areas are, in a sense, predestined to go to hell since they are born never having a chance to know Christ. if they do go to hell, why would God create some people who literally have no other option than hell? seems unfair

2. is hell really eternal torture? i know its 'torment', but i always viewed it as mental tornment knowing that you ruined your chance for eternal life with God. the images of people in hell being tortured i have a hard time believing - it seems out of God's character to allow us to go there. i know the whole "we send ourselves there" argument, but it still seems out of His character

3. would humans have sinned without satan's temptation in the garden? the reason i ask is the doctrine i was always told is that satan was thrown out of heaven to earth. why did God send satan to where we, his prized creation, were living? if He didnt want us to sin why send satan to where we were? or is satans 'purpose' to provide an alternative to God, similar to the book of Job?

4. i overall struggle with the concept of the trinity. reading through the old testament God clearly says over and over that there is one God and i struggle with the three persons in one God aspect, mainly because it seems so different from anything described in the OT. i sometime think the trinity is God's manifestation in different 'realms' (father - spiritual realm, son - physical realm, holy spirit - inside humans). is there a better way to think of it?


thanks for the responses

[MoreMercy]

Christ said His Father will not send Him to return until every ear has heard the good news in the four corners of the earth. The key to that statement is "every ear hears" not "all four corners of the earth reached".

Think about that and you yourself will possibly come up with the answer to at least one of your own question on this thread.



The answers to your other questions here can be answered by yourself too, by just keep reading His recorded words in our bibles, any version or translation mixed with prayer and thanks giving.



God bless.

[amazzin]

All your questions are worthy of seperate threads. It will get very confusing for you if you don't do that. Just a suggestion

hey everyone, first time post. i am Christian but there are some issues/questions that have kind of bothering me. if you could help me with the answers that would be great, sorry if it rambles a bit:

1.do people who never get the chance to know Christ go to hell? the doctrine i have always heard is that only those who believe in Jesus go to heaven. if that is true, what about, for example, the tribal people in Africa who live and die never hearing about Jesus? i started thinking about this because i was talking with people about the whole subject of 'predestination', and it made me think that people who live in those areas are, in a sense, predestined to go to hell since they are born never having a chance to know Christ. if they do go to hell, why would God create some people who literally have no other option than hell? seems unfair

2. is hell really eternal torture? i know its 'torment', but i always viewed it as mental tornment knowing that you ruined your chance for eternal life with God. the images of people in hell being tortured i have a hard time believing - it seems out of God's character to allow us to go there. i know the whole "we send ourselves there" argument, but it still seems out of His character

3. would humans have sinned without satan's temptation in the garden? the reason i ask is the doctrine i was always told is that satan was thrown out of heaven to earth. why did God send satan to where we, his prized creation, were living? if He didnt want us to sin why send satan to where we were? or is satans 'purpose' to provide an alternative to God, similar to the book of Job?

4. i overall struggle with the concept of the trinity. reading through the old testament God clearly says over and over that there is one God and i struggle with the three persons in one God aspect, mainly because it seems so different from anything described in the OT. i sometime think the trinity is God's manifestation in different 'realms' (father - spiritual realm, son - physical realm, holy spirit - inside humans). is there a better way to think of it?


thanks for the responses

[Kaboose]

1. God is just and fair, I do believe all people will have a chance to accept or deny Christ before final judgement, whether in this life time or after resurrection.

2. Hell isn't exactly what is pictured. Hell is more of a temporary place which will be cast into the lake of fire mentioned toward the end of the book of Revelation. The Lake of Fire is more of what we would think of as hell, and I believe it is made for Satan's and his minions as a final place of eternal torment. I don't believe it was intended for man to go there.

3. This is a hard question to answer, man had free will, did God know man would eventually sin? I think so, I believe he had a plan of redemption already before he made mankind. Is Satan just playing his part in this whole plan knowingly or not, it is a good question, and I really can't answer that one for certain. Free will and a choice is needed for there to be love, forcing some one with no other choice wouldn't not be love in a sense so God gave us free will and a choice. If Satan was part of his overall plan, God only knows.

4. Trinity is in the old Testament, in the creation right off the bat, it says "create man in our image", also mentions the Holy Spirit of God.
I kind of think of God as a corporation of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as God. Keep in mind Jesus "the Word", all things were created through him John 1:1. He was around before being manifested in the flesh. In the old Testament most references to "Angel of the Lord" are actually Christ Jesus before he was born on earth as man. Angel means "messenger" which makes sense as Jesus was very much messenger. It difficult to understand, but then again God is so far above and beyond what we know in our limited knowledge.

[Bandit]

hey everyone, first time post. i am Christian but there are some issues/questions that have kind of bothering me. if you could help me with the answers that would be great, sorry if it rambles a bit:

1.do people who never get the chance to know Christ go to hell? the doctrine i have always heard is that only those who believe in Jesus go to heaven. if that is true, what about, for example, the tribal people in Africa who live and die never hearing about Jesus? i started thinking about this because i was talking with people about the whole subject of 'predestination', and it made me think that people who live in those areas are, in a sense, predestined to go to hell since they are born never having a chance to know Christ. if they do go to hell, why would God create some people who literally have no other option than hell? seems unfair

2. is hell really eternal torture? i know its 'torment', but i always viewed it as mental tornment knowing that you ruined your chance for eternal life with God. the images of people in hell being tortured i have a hard time believing - it seems out of God's character to allow us to go there. i know the whole "we send ourselves there" argument, but it still seems out of His character

3. would humans have sinned without satan's temptation in the garden? the reason i ask is the doctrine i was always told is that satan was thrown out of heaven to earth. why did God send satan to where we, his prized creation, were living? if He didnt want us to sin why send satan to where we were? or is satans 'purpose' to provide an alternative to God, similar to the book of Job?

4. i overall struggle with the concept of the trinity. reading through the old testament God clearly says over and over that there is one God and i struggle with the three persons in one God aspect, mainly because it seems so different from anything described in the OT. i sometime think the trinity is God's manifestation in different 'realms' (father - spiritual realm, son - physical realm, holy spirit - inside humans). is there a better way to think of it?


thanks for the responses

Hello cantcme2,

Concerning your first two points, perhaps you could go read one of my replies (# 97) in the Bible Chat forlder (http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...han-Hell/page7)

As far as the 3rd point, who or what can be perfect but God? If only God can be perfect, then we each will surely mess up at some point.

And concerning point 4, I would invite you to read some of the recent Areopagus threads in the Special Forums folder. Even those who accept the concept of the "trinity" have trouble with it. We can not fully understand God.

[boangry]

hey everyone, first time post. i am Christian but there are some issues/questions that have kind of bothering me. if you could help me with the answers that would be great, sorry if it rambles a bit:

1.do people who never get the chance to know Christ go to hell? the doctrine i have always heard is that only those who believe in Jesus go to heaven. if that is true, what about, for example, the tribal people in Africa who live and die never hearing about Jesus? i started thinking about this because i was talking with people about the whole subject of 'predestination', and it made me think that people who live in those areas are, in a sense, predestined to go to hell since they are born never having a chance to know Christ. if they do go to hell, why would God create some people who literally have no other option than hell? seems unfair

People in the old testament did not know Christ, yet by their faith in God they inadvertently proved their faith in Jesus. It is not just believing in God but believing He is a rewarder of those who seek him. The same for the tribal people who supposedly have never heard of Christ. If they have a belief in the creator they inadvertently proved their faith in a redeemer. The natural way of thinking for tribal people would be in a creator and a young earth, they dont have evolutionists brainwashing them. although there will be those that reject God and eventually will be involved in Idols etc... Yet to reject they must have some knowledge?

just to point out I look at it from a totally different perspective for example young people who are beyond making a choice I think all go to heaven then why not those that have never been presented a choice get an automatic pass to heaven why would one presume its an automatic pass to hell especially if God is fair and Just and gracious and merciful!

2. is hell really eternal torture? i know its 'torment', but i always viewed it as mental tornment knowing that you ruined your chance for eternal life with God. the images of people in hell being tortured i have a hard time believing - it seems out of God's character to allow us to go there. i know the whole "we send ourselves there" argument, but it still seems out of His character

3. would humans have sinned without satan's temptation in the garden? the reason i ask is the doctrine i was always told is that satan was thrown out of heaven to earth. why did God send satan to where we, his prized creation, were living? if He didnt want us to sin why send satan to where we were? or is satans 'purpose' to provide an alternative to God, similar to the book of Job?

Adam and Eve had no sin, therefore the concept of disobedience is non existent. btw Im going to give the shortest answer I possibly can, lol
If you build two robots and program into them thinking capabilities, which is permission for doing whatever they want inside the perimeters of their world, they cannot disobey(sin), If you program into one to do as you tell it like um... not to jump then it will not jump its impossible, then it tells the other robot not to jump then your robots will not jump. The only way to get them to jump is to have another robot with no instruction on jumping, if it tells the robot(the 2nd) it can indeed jump then it can jump, Ok now the problem arises for the first robot, It sees the 2nd jumping and the 2nd robot tells it to jump, now it has a choice! and needless to say after it jumps a nasty virus develops in the first robot and it opens the folder of knowledge in its electronic brain and they are now aware of choice, That is because both robots have now seen the first disobey the builders voice.

I take it you realise my view has God realising Adam was going to sin, but rest assure it is all part of Gods great plan.

4. i overall struggle with the concept of the trinity. reading through the old testament God clearly says over and over that there is one God and i struggle with the three persons in one God aspect, mainly because it seems so different from anything described in the OT. i sometime think the trinity is God's manifestation in different 'realms' (father - spiritual realm, son - physical realm, holy spirit - inside humans). is there a better way to think of it?

The way I view the trinity is sort of like this, Say your name in real life is John, but in bibleforums on the internet your name is cantcme2 now you have two parts I know of, John and cantcme2. you are one and the same person yet 2 distinct persons to me and its important people can distinguish between the two and realise your only one person.

I would elaborate fully on how I think the trinity works or more precisely the HS but its a long version haha Im sure you get the general idea..

I to want answers to question no2 I would only add confusion If I havnt added confusion already

[mailmandan]

hey everyone, first time post. i am Christian but there are some issues/questions that have kind of bothering me. if you could help me with the answers that would be great, sorry if it rambles a bit: 1.do people who never get the chance to know Christ go to hell? the doctrine i have always heard is that only those who believe in Jesus go to heaven. if that is true, what about, for example, the tribal people in Africa who live and die never hearing about Jesus? i started thinking about this because i was talking with people about the whole subject of 'predestination', and it made me think that people who live in those areas are, in a sense, predestined to go to hell since they are born never having a chance to know Christ. if they do go to hell, why would God create some people who literally have no other option than hell? seems unfair

Hello cantcme2,

Romans 1:20 says, For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--His eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Is God really unable to reach tribal people in Africa? If they respond to the light they have been given, will God give them more light? Is God not big enough to reach them?

2. is hell really eternal torture? i know its 'torment', but i always viewed it as mental tornment knowing that you ruined your chance for eternal life with God. the images of people in hell being tortured i have a hard time believing - it seems out of God's character to allow us to go there. i know the whole "we send ourselves there" argument, but it still seems out of His character.

In Matthew 25, Jesus described hell as "eternal fire" (vs. 41) and "eternal punishment" (vs. 46). I'm sure that mental torture would accompany physical torment and knowing that you are eternally separated from God. Here is a video of someone who claims to have went to hell and came back. Very intense!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv8pLUMDVRc

3. would humans have sinned without satan's temptation in the garden? the reason i ask is the doctrine i was always told is that satan was thrown out of heaven to earth. why did God send satan to where we, his prized creation, were living? if He didnt want us to sin why send satan to where we were? or is satans 'purpose' to provide an alternative to God, similar to the book of Job?

Good question. Notice that Adam and Eve did not sin until they were tempted by satan. His purpose is certainly to oppose God and to kill and destroy. Either we choose Christ or else we end up with the alternative.

4. i overall struggle with the concept of the trinity. reading through the old testament God clearly says over and over that there is one God and i struggle with the three persons in one God aspect, mainly because it seems so different from anything described in the OT. i sometime think the trinity is God's manifestation in different 'realms' (father - spiritual realm, son - physical realm, holy spirit - inside humans). is there a better way to think of it?

What helped me to understand the Trinity is the word COEQUAL. Think of three distinct persons who are COEQUAL is essence or nature. You can't say three gods because they are coequal in essence or nature. You can't say one person because they are three distinct persons. Notice in Genesis 1:26, Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.. Hope this helps.

[Walls]

hey everyone, first time post. i am Christian but there are some issues/questions that have kind of bothering me. if you could help me with the answers that would be great, sorry if it rambles a bit:

1.do people who never get the chance to know Christ go to hell? the doctrine i have always heard is that only those who believe in Jesus go to heaven. if that is true, what about, for example, the tribal people in Africa who live and die never hearing about Jesus? i started thinking about this because i was talking with people about the whole subject of 'predestination', and it made me think that people who live in those areas are, in a sense, predestined to go to hell since they are born never having a chance to know Christ. if they do go to hell, why would God create some people who literally have no other option than hell? seems unfair

As one above has recommended, your questions require quite voluminous answers and would be better posed singly. I will answer question 1 this time. When you are satisfied with the answer(s) we can go to question 2.

First of all let’s gets the terminology correct. The word “hell” is a conceptual word used by the translators of 1611 and others, and, if not investigated, can lead to confusion. There are three different words that the 1611 translators bundled as “hell”.

The first is the Greek word “Hades”. Hades is the place under the earth where the souls of dead men go. A man is made of three parts – body soul and spirit (1^st Thess.5:23). At death these three parts are ripped apart. The body goes back to the earthy elements, the spirit returns to God and the soul goes to Hades to wait for the resurrection. The Old Testament Hebrew word for this place is “Sheol”.

The second is the Greek word “Gehenna”. This word comes from the name of the valley to the south of Jerusalem called the Valley of Hinnom. It was the place where the city’s refuse was jumped and burned. It was also the valley where Israel burned their children alive when they worshipped the fire-god Molech. The fires burned day and night and there was just the stench of decay and death. When our Lord Jesus threatens sinners it is this word He uses. Gehenna is the place of refuse and of non-stop fire. It is also called “destruction”, “perdition”, “The Lake of Fire” and “The Second Death.”

The third word is “Tartaroo”. This word only appears once in 2^nd Peter 2:4 and is the place where the angels who mixed with women in the days of Noah are kept in chains and darkness until judgment day. It might be in the region of Hades but does not apply to humans.

Your question only pertains to Gehenna. Now, when Christians say that if you do not believe in our Lord Jesus Christ you go to “hell” they are grossly incorrect. I know that this is a prevailing doctrine but when you ask them to show you this in the bible they are unable to do it. The people who are sent to Gehenna are sent there because of their works. When our Lord Jesus returns to earth to set up His kingdom, one of the first things He does is judge the living. The living are made up of the Jews and Christians who will be resurrected and those that were alive when He came and who are changed into their renewed bodies at rapture (1^st Cor.15:51-52; 1^st Thess.4:13-18), and those of the nations who survive the Great Tribulation. The judgment of each of these three groups is based on their works. The Christians are first so Romans 14:9-13 says,
“For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: ‘As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.’ So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way.”
And 2^nd Corinthians 5:10 says,
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”

You do not need a doctorate in English (or Greek) to see that every Christian will be judged based on what he/she DID. The issue at a Christian's judgment is not the Lake of Fire. He/she cannot go there because he/she accepted the finished work of Christ. The issue is whether they will be kings in Christ's kingdom and whether they enter the joy of the Lord.

The judgment of the nations is predicted by the Old Testament prophets in many places and the best description of it is found in Matthew 25:31-46. During the Great Tribulation the least of the Lord’s brethren will be on earth and be subject to certain treatment by the nations. If one of the nations gives a Jew or a Christian who is thirsty a glass of water, he/she will not go to the Lake of Fire. If this same man or woman refuses a glass of water he/she will go to the Lake of Fire. These are works and have nothing to do with believing in Jesus Christ.

Then after the Lord Jesus has reigned on earth for 1’000 years the dead of the nations are resurrected to face their judgment at the Great White Throne of the Lord Jesus. This is found in Revelations 20:7-15. You will notice how many times “works” are said directly and also implied.

So to your question; A person who goes to the Lake of Fire goes there because of their deeds and thoroughly deserves it. Conversely, a child who is murdered either inside or outside its mother's womb cannot go to the Lake of Fire. It did not live long enough to decide for good or for evil works. The African tribesman you spoke of has his future decided by his works.

But the other side of your question must now be: - “what profit does believing in Jesus Christ have?” I cannot impress with any words what this can be, but let me try. Man was made in three ways; (1) In the image of God, (2) as a vessel, and (3) as a social being. The highest enjoyment a man or woman can achieve is to be found in the image of God, to be found full of God, and to be found in the company of God (Eph.3:19; Jude.1:24; Ps.16:11, 17:15, 21:6, 36:8; Act.2:28 etc.). Any man not attaining to one or more of these suffers a terrible loss. Only a born-again Christian can attain to all three of these. Every Jew and every member of the nations will fall far short of this high and joyful position for all eternity.

[SirToady]

1. There is the Gospel of the Kingdom (Jews) and the Gospel of Grace (all). There must be some mechanism for those who are righteous yet have not heard the Word.

2. Hell is not the end - all in Hell are judged in the great white throne judgement and cast into the eternal lake of fire.

3. Without sin there is no choice, and with no choice how could anybody sin. Obviously, Satan and his followers were cast out before Adam was created.

4. Look at the Trinity this way, we all have a mind, a will, and emotion - therefore the Holy Trinity is of God the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit. The Son became incarnate to die for all our sins on the cross, and then was resurrected and seen by over 500 people besides the disciples and the women who attended Christ during His mission including his mother Mary.

[Everyman]

1.do people who never get the chance to know Christ go to hell?

I'm a Catholic, so I'll give you responses from a Catholic perspective. Mind you these are nutshell verions, so if you wish to learn more, there are an abundance of resources you can look at that will do much better than I can do here. But for #1, those who don't know Christ can get to heaven. This includes the mentally ill, infants, and those who by no fault of their own were never introduced to Christ's word and were never in a position to learn anything about Christ. There is a lot to this, and for the most part, we have to trust in God's mercy and kindness, but we have hope for these people. Logically, it wouldn't make sense for God to create people in extremely remote regions or to set up a world in which infants are killed or die before they reach the age of reason, when he sent his Son to die for "all".

2. is hell really eternal torture?

Hell is eternal and I believe it will make the worst form of earthly torture seem quite mild. Separation from God is unbearable and when it is eternal and there is no way out, the result is beyond our understanding.

3. would humans have sinned without satan's temptation in the garden?

Very philosophical. I don't think this is as much a religious question as a philosophical one. I doubt there is a position on this from most faiths. But I'll give you my 2 cents. No. I don't think there is any sin without temptation from satan.

4. The Trinity. Is there a better way to think of it?

One being, three persons. They have always existed, they will always exist. Each are distinct, and each are God. They are co-eternal and co-equal. See Matt 28:18-20, John 1:1-18, John 14:10, John 10:29, 2 Cor 13:13, 1 Cor 12:4-11 for various references to the three divine persons. There are many more in the New Testament, but this is a good start. Early Christian writers dealt with the Trinity, and show us that it has been a significant doctrine of the Church which predates the Bible.

[Withoutfcf]

I tried posting this and it deleted unfortunately so this one might be less detailed but still, Hopefully, Helpful..

1.God is a perfect just God. No one will go without hearing the name of Christ(In this life or the next) He will not let someone be Unjustly punished. Look more into the Great white throne Judgement.
2.Hell is not Eternal. It is a holding place for sinners until Final judgement. At final Judgement Hades(and all in it) will be thrown into Gehenna(Lake of fire)and they will be DESTROYED. Satan and his minions will be in eternal Torment. Not Humans.
3.This can be a confusing and quite Controversial topic! I'm going to use a fun little analogy to best explain the Trinity.
Look at water. It can be a Gas, a Solid, or a Liquid! If you take a cup of water you can create these three things without adding or exchanging anything else besides its original properties. Water is fully liquid, Fully Solid, and Fully Gas! Now apply the same concept to Jesus, God,The holy spirit. They're Three of the same. God is the solid, Jesus liquid and Holy spirit Gas! fully each without being a separate being.

I hope this helped, I had to shorten it.. Out of impatience but hopefully this will suffice!

Keep thirsty(Get it?...Water?...lol..) for Knowledge, and Christ!!
and remember Doubt is a sign of Spiritual Growth.
Hope this put some light on your questions.
Good luck!

[philer]

hey everyone, first time post. i am Christian but there are some issues/questions that have kind of bothering me. if you could help me with the answers that would be great, sorry if it rambles a bit:

1.do people who never get the chance to know Christ go to hell? the doctrine i have always heard is that only those who believe in Jesus go to heaven. if that is true, what about, for example, the tribal people in Africa who live and die never hearing about Jesus? i started thinking about this because i was talking with people about the whole subject of 'predestination', and it made me think that people who live in those areas are, in a sense, predestined to go to hell since they are born never having a chance to know Christ. if they do go to hell, why would God create some people who literally have no other option than hell? seems unfair

2. is hell really eternal torture? i know its 'torment', but i always viewed it as mental tornment knowing that you ruined your chance for eternal life with God. the images of people in hell being tortured i have a hard time believing - it seems out of God's character to allow us to go there. i know the whole "we send ourselves there" argument, but it still seems out of His character

3. would humans have sinned without satan's temptation in the garden? the reason i ask is the doctrine i was always told is that satan was thrown out of heaven to earth. why did God send satan to where we, his prized creation, were living? if He didnt want us to sin why send satan to where we were? or is satans 'purpose' to provide an alternative to God, similar to the book of Job?

4. i overall struggle with the concept of the trinity. reading through the old testament God clearly says over and over that there is one God and i struggle with the three persons in one God aspect, mainly because it seems so different from anything described in the OT. i sometime think the trinity is God's manifestation in different 'realms' (father - spiritual realm, son - physical realm, holy spirit - inside humans). is there a better way to think of it?


thanks for the responses

hi,great questions. first i would like to point out that we are told not to say who recieves eternal life or not,we don't know who will recieve it,only GOD knows. As far as would GOD create someone who would not have a chance at eternal life, yes we see that with those mentioned in the book of revelations who recieve the mark of the beast,that their names were not written in the book of life from the foundations of the world. Is it fair, i think that is a common misconception of mankind and his view of GOD and his plan and creation, it has never been an issue of being fair and never was implied to us that it is fair, it is a common assumption. Just as no one earned their salvation it is also equal in the sense of no one earned their destruction. As to your question of hell ,it is more likely we will die or be destroyed , as it is called the second death. As to your question of satan, GOD had a plan,and that plan included satan and what happened in the garden, GOD was not unaware of what was happening he could have stopped it, he also put the tree of life in the midst of the garden with the other tree,if satan were really trying to thwart the plan of GOD he knew the implications of each tree, sensibly eating of the tree of life would have been more devistating to GODs plan than the taking from the other, giving us a clear indication this was planned in advance, also the fact christ being crucified from the foundations of the world giving us another hint GOD knew in advance what was to occur. As to your question of trinity, it is not a word used in the bible or scripture, but your view is correct GOD in different forms, FATHER,SON,SPIRIT , many view them as seperate individuals , that is a popular belief, basically in the end all i can say is read the scriptures ,pray to GOD for wisdom and knowledge and trust the word of GOD , and hope that GOD will give you understanding, but don't let men tell you what GOD says , believe GOD only. i hope it helps.

[Nick]

Great questions, which I'll expand on the other ones later, but let me address the first one as there are mixed views. Christ commanded us to preach so that everyone would here the gospel. For those who die unreached, that is God’s department, not ours. In fact, the bible clearly states that Jesus won't return until everyone has had a chance to hear the gospel and respond to it.

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

Here Jesus clearly (in my opinion) says that before he returns, the gospel of the kingdom (the message of salvation) would be preached throughout the world. This was the disciples' mission - and it is ours today. What happens in the meantime to those who haven't had a chance to receive the gospel? The Bible says that God will Judge people according to how they lived their life on earth. Christians think that God favors them and will take them to heaven. However, the Bible says that God is the most righteous judge and he is not a respecter of persons. Jews and gentiles or Christians and non-Christians will have equal righteous judgment from God.


Romans 14: 10-12

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God."

God saves those who strive to obey his commandments and he punishes those who do not obey.

Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done."

Here it is clear that "Christians" too will face a judgment. Christians are taught to say that they are saved while they are serving sin. John 8:34-36 tells us otherwise.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."

Paul expands on this by saying in Romans 6:16 "Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?"

Bottom line is that we have to be saved from sin itself. Present day Christians are not saved from the bondage of sin, but are taught to proclaim themselves as saved. This is the subtle deception of the devil. They are taught to say that they have accepted Jesus Christ as the Lord and Saviour, but most do not obey his commandments.

Here's the clincher....Matthew 7:21-23 "21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

What is Jesus saying here? Faith in Christ is what will count. If we continue to sin and are unrepentent for it how can we claim to have faith? I love what James says in James 2:22 "22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says." I can read the bible until I'm blue in the face. I can be involved in several ministries doing service work but unless I apply the Word to my life I am just fooling myself about my faith. Then he goes on to say in James 2:18-24 "But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."

[ChristineES]

1.do people who never get the chance to know Christ go to hell? the doctrine i have always heard is that only those who believe in Jesus go to heaven. if that is true, what about, for example, the tribal people in Africa who live and die never hearing about Jesus? i started thinking about this because i was talking with people about the whole subject of 'predestination', and it made me think that people who live in those areas are, in a sense, predestined to go to hell since they are born never having a chance to know Christ. if they do go to hell, why would God create some people who literally have no other option than hell? seems unfair

I personally believe that those who never heard of Jesus do get a chance, and I believe it is scriptural. I can't remember the verse from the top of my head, but there is one that says that some people have the "Law written in their hearts" or something of that nature.

2. is hell really eternal torture? i know its 'torment', but i always viewed it as mental torment knowing that you ruined your chance for eternal life with God. the images of people in hell being tortured i have a hard time believing - it seems out of God's character to allow us to go there. i know the whole "we send ourselves there" argument, but it still seems out of His character

I don't believe in a literal hell- I believe in the grave. I believe "hell" to be a separation from God.

3. would humans have sinned without Satan's temptation in the garden? the reason i ask is the doctrine i was always told is that Satan was thrown out of heaven to earth. why did God send Satan to where we, his prized creation, were living? if He didn't want us to sin why send Satan to where we were? or is Satan's 'purpose' to provide an alternative to God, similar to the book of Job?

Satan is called many things in the Bible: The accuser in Job. He also might be a tempter, as with Jesus. The serpent in the Adam and Eve story comes across as a tempter, as well. Being of flesh, we have fleshly desires- including a lot of things that are not good for us.

4. i overall struggle with the concept of the trinity. reading through the old testament God clearly says over and over that there is one God and i struggle with the three persons in one God aspect, mainly because it seems so different from anything described in the OT. i sometime think the trinity is God's manifestation in different 'realms' (father - spiritual realm, son - physical realm, holy spirit - inside humans). is there a better way to think of it?

I think of it as the body, mind, and spirit.

[Walls]

Hi ChristineES, welcome to the Forum. Hope you have happy times here and learn a lot.

God Bless