LGBT lawyers sue American pastor for "crimes agaist humanity" in Uganda

[Vhayes]

You are all correct. Lively had no influence at all on the legislation and is therefore exempt from any and all actions taken by the Ugandan government. His recommendations have no weight in what a foreign government does. This is a frivolous lawsuit and should be thrown out.

THAT'S the Christianity I'm used to seeing! What was I thinking?

God hates fags!!

[Sojourner55]

You are all correct. Lively had no influence at all on the legislation and is therefore exempt from any and all actions taken by the Ugandan government. His recommendations have no weight in what a foreign government does. This is a frivolous lawsuit and should be thrown out.

THAT'S the Christianity I'm used to seeing! What was I thinking?

God hates fags!!

And this is the VHayes I'm used to seeing. I'm having a little problem understanding how someone can justify the charge of "crimes against humanity" against a visiting Pastor for preaching against the sexual sin that is killing millions of people--yet when atrocities are routinely committed in Muslims countries...well that's the just the way they do things, and it's none of our business. And, you get "God hates fags" out of this? Really?

[Revmitchell]

And this is the VHayes I'm used to seeing. I'm having a little problem understanding how someone can justify the charge of "crimes against humanity" against a visiting Pastor for preaching against the sexual sin that is killing millions of people--yet when atrocities are routinely committed in Muslims countries...well that's the just the way theu do things, and it's none of our business. You get "God hates fags" out of this? Really? Whatever.

Some folks try to support things they know they cannot justify through the back door.

[Warrior4God]

You are all correct. Lively had no influence at all on the legislation and is therefore exempt from any and all actions taken by the Ugandan government. His recommendations have no weight in what a foreign government does. This is a frivolous lawsuit and should be thrown out.

THAT'S the Christianity I'm used to seeing! What was I thinking?

God hates fags!!

Do you honestly believe that the Ugandan government only enacted the laws that they did because of what Lively said? Do you really think that if Lively, or any other Christian evangelist, never said a thing against homosexuality that they wouldn't have still come up with those same exact laws on their own? Are you really that naive? Also, you can read "God hates fags" into what we all have said. That's not what any of us have said, nor implied, but that's your prerogative to believe so, I guess.

[Fenris]

Hypothetically speaking, if this pastor converted to Islam, would LGBT drop the lawsuit?

Why or why not?

[Vhayes]

Christians should be preaching Christ and Him crucified and resurrected - not anti-homosexual laws.

Muslims will do what they will do - yet I (and you) are commanded to love them. Does that mean I excuse them for what they do? Nope. They are misguided to say the least. But that doesn't mean that I (we) should tell them how to live their lives - rather, we should show them the love that is Christ. It also doesn't mean that I should give a pass to the "Christians" who preach hate and death.

[Sojourner55]

Most Muslims who preach hate and death feel they are doing so in accordance with their religious beliefs. Professing Christians who engage in that behavior are not truly Christians, but wolves in sheep's clothing. I think we all agree on that. I believe the hottest part of hell is reserved for people who drive away potential converts by falsely representing Christianity. But we need to realize that not everyone who speaks out about the spiritual bondage of homosexuality, and the seducing corrupting, spiritual Trojan Horse it represents to society, is in the same category as the Westboro Baptist people.

[Vhayes]

Well, you're certainly right about one thing - you know you are right and therefore any discussion will be unfruitful. And we can CERTAINLY forget rational.

Oh - here's the smilie to make it all good

Probably time for me to leave again. The "My way or the Highway" gang is about to swoop in.

[Warrior4God]

Well, you're certainly right about one thing - you know you are right and therefore any discussion will be unfruitful. And we can CERTAINLY forget rational.

Oh - here's the smilie to make it all good

Probably time for me to leave again. The "My way or the Highway" gang is about to swoop in.

I'd like to know what kind of supernatural ability Mr. Lively apparently possesses that can make national governments bend to his will, because I can think of all kinds of fun I could have with that "ability" if I could also attain it.

[Warrior4God]

Hypothetically speaking, if this pastor converted to Islam, would LGBT drop the lawsuit?

Why or why not?

I wager the answer is yes. For two reasons: it's the kiss of political correctness death to try to take any kind of stance against Islam nowadays. Also, most people are afraid, wrongly or rightly so, of upsetting Muslims for fear of some sort of retaliation.

[Vhayes]

I'd like to know what kind of supernatural ability Mr. Lively apparently possesses that can make national governments bend to his will, because I can think of all kinds of fun I could have with that "ability" if I could also attain it.

You should try reading to gain information instead of making fun of others to whom you feel morally or intellectually superior.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/wo.../04uganda.html

Published: January 3, 2010
KAMPALA, Uganda — Last March, three American evangelical Christians, whose teachings about “curing” homosexuals have been widely discredited in the United States, arrived here in Uganda’s capital to give a series of talks.

The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was “the gay agenda — that whole hidden and dark agenda” — and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family.

For three days, according to participants and audio recordings, thousands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians, listened raptly to the Americans, who were presented as experts on homosexuality. The visitors discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how “the gay movement is an evil institution” whose goal is “to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.”

Now the three Americans are finding themselves on the defensive, saying they had no intention of helping stoke the kind of anger that could lead to what came next: a bill to impose a death sentence for homosexual behavior.

One month after the conference, a previously unknown Ugandan politician, who boasts of having evangelical friends in the American government, introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009, which threatens to hang homosexuals, and, as a result, has put Uganda on a collision course with Western nations.

Mr. Lively was one of the honored speakers.

[Vhayes]

Some folks try to support things they know they cannot justify through the back door.

Not trying to justify anything. Homosexuality is a sin.

[Warrior4God]

You should try reading to gain information instead of making fun of others to whom you feel morally or intellectually superior.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/wo.../04uganda.html



Mr. Lively was one of the honored speakers.

I really don't care what all Mr. Lively said to the government of Uganda. At the end of it all, the government decided to do what they wanted to do, and they made laws that they fully intended to make, whether Mr. Lively opened his pie hole to them or not. I know you get upset easily, but please try to put things into perspective. I have no moral or intellectual "superiority complex." If I honestly thought I was any better or smarter than you, or anybody else for that matter, I would have no problem saying so. I just happen to disagree with you about some things. Strongly. It doesn't make me better or smarter than you.

[Vhayes]

I really don't care what all Mr. Lively said to the government of Uganda. At the end of it all, the government decided to do what they wanted to do, and they made laws that they fully intended to make, whether Mr. Lively opened his pie hole to them or not. I know you get upset easily, but please try to put things into perspective. I have no moral or intellectual "superiority complex." If I honestly thought I was any better than you, or anybody else for that matter, I would have no problem saying so. I just happen to disagree with you about some things. Strongly. It doesn't make me better or smarter than you.

That's right. It doesn't.

So... why say I'm naive? Or imply that I'm too dense to "get" it? Or ask why people defend homosexuality (when no one has)

[Sojourner55]

V, do you honestly believe Lively is guilty of crimes against humanity? All I can say is, the Ugandan government must be pretty pathetic if they craft legislation based on the opinions of a foreigner who has visited the country twice. If I were among the lawmakers there, I would take offense at the suggestion that Uganda is a body in need of an outsider's brain to formulate decisions and direct the legislative process.