What is the main reason some DO NOT submit to God?

[Adstars]

David was human, he sinned quite a bit..and was a life spent living in sin.
He was not known for his high morals and ascetic life style.

He married a woman whose husband he murdered on top of having many other wives and concubines.

Yes he married Bathsheba to take responsibility to support her after killing her husband. He was taking responsibility for his actions.

One can not have a house full of concubines and not be living in casual sin with a very cavalier manner.
David never stopped with his women...so much for repenting bitterly and changing his way..
In fact even to his death bed , with the 16 year old bed warmer gained from a beauty contest.

He never had sexual relations with Her.

With one of his wives pleading to make her son the next king, while he was on his death bed with some young babe.
That is being very cavalier..about sin.

Having multiple wives was not considered sin in Davids time.

David strength was not avoiding sin, rather how to handle it and place sin in its proper perspective.

No. Davids strength was to admit he sinned when he was convicted by God through the prophet that he had sinned, He admired his wrong and then moved on.

2 Samuel 12
13 So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

[Adstars]

I'm not getting that from Romans 1. It seems to condemn those who do know God but still sin, which I can agree with. But to say that "all men know God" isn't in the text and doesn't pass the common sense test.

Not if you believe that our conscience is God given and evidence of Him.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

[Fenris]

Not if you believe that our conscience is God given and evidence of Him.

It tells different people different things. So...no, it isn't.

[John 8:32]

Not if you believe that our conscience is God given and evidence of Him.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

I do not believe we can trust our conscience alone...

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

We must continually compare it to God's word and His ways to be sure we are thinking like God.

[MaryFreeman]

It tells different people different things. So...no, it isn't.

Just want to interrupt to say one thing....

Our conscience is the part of us that tells us we are doing something wrong.... And wrong is wrong irregardless of who is wrong or what situation they are in.... So if they have something telling them different.... Like Rossi (Criminal Minds) said.... That's not your conscience speaking.... It's your ego....

[Fenris]

Our conscience is the part of us that tells us we are doing something wrong.... And wrong is wrong irregardless of who is wrong or what situation they are in.... So if they have something telling them different.... Like Rossi (Criminal Minds) said.... That's not your conscience speaking.... It's your ego....

Ah yes. Nothing like a line from a fictional character to prove a theological point.

"Right" and "wrong" is learned behavior. That's why there won't be middle east peace this generation. Palestinian kids are taught to hate from an early age.

[MaryFreeman]

Ah yes. Nothing like a line from a fictional character to prove a theological point.

Fenris! Did you really just go there?

It may be something a fictional character said.... But that doesn't take away from the truth of the statement.... I just didn't want people thinking it was a statement I came up with all by my lonesome LOL....

"Right" and "wrong" is learned behavior. That's why there won't be middle east peace this generation. Palestinian kids are taught to hate from an early age.

And then there is the age of accountability.... Even a Jewish man recognizes that right Fenris?

The age at which you know what you are doing is wrong but do it anyways? The age at which God starts keeping a record.... A conscience is not taught.... Behavior is taught.... A conscience rates a behavior as right or wrong....

[Fenris]

Fenris! Did you really just go there?

Wait, lemme check....Yup, I went there!

It may be something a fictional character said.... But that doesn't take away from the truth of the statement.... I just didn't want people thinking it was a statement I came up with all by my lonesome LOL....

Doesn't make it correct though.

And then there is the age of accountability.... Even a Jewish man recognizes that right Fenris?

It's not something magical that happens when a Jewish boy becomes 13. It presumes that they were actually taught the law. Because "right" and "wrong" are learned, not innate.

[BrianW]

many scientists who know the universe best see it otherwise. This doesn't make them bad people or defiant of God's rule. They simply see the universe as a place of natural laws and not a creation of God.


Who "knew God"? Again, if one is speaking of believers that is one thing, but this verse can't possibly be applied to all humans who ever lived. Understanding it that way goes opposite to Amos 3:2. Or Luke 12:48, if you prefer the NT.

Many scientist attempt to study and define the laws that God put into place yet attempt to deny what's obvious and apparent at the same time. Why? I don't know.

I don't see Amos 3:2 or Luke 12:48 going against or disproving what I stated in my post at all. I don't see how either of these scriptures are even in the same context of I posted?

[MaryFreeman]

Wait, lemme check....Yup, I went there!

Doesn't make it correct though.

No.... But it is.... People make this mistake all the time.... There are a lot of things that we think and we attribute them to conscience.... Like the person who thought they should have been there to save another.... When it is quite clear there was nothing anyone could have done.... That is ego and not conscience.... Then there is the person who slips something they didn't pay for into their pocket and all the way to the door they keep thinking they should put it back.... That is conscience and not ego....

There are people with an ego and no conscience.... We call them reprobates.... They don't have anything telling them they are wrong because they ignored it so much it was "seared"....

It's not something magical that happens when a Jewish boy becomes 13. It presumes that they were actually taught the law. Because "right" and "wrong" are learned, not innate.

Yes but I was speaking of that age in which GOD starts holding a person accountable.... By HIS standards.... Not men.... Not the law.... GOD....

[Fenris]

Many scientist attempt to study and define the laws that God put into place yet attempt to deny what's obvious and apparent at the same time. Why? I don't know.

I'm a religious man and I love to read science. I don't think the connection is obvious or apparent at all.

I don't see Amos 3:2 or Luke 12:48 going against or disproving what I stated in my post at all. I don't see how either of these scriptures are even in the same context of I posted?

Because they both say that one is judged by what one knows.

[Fenris]

No.... But it is.... People make this mistake all the time.... There are a lot of things that we think and we attribute them to conscience.... Like the person who thought they should have been there to save another.... When it is quite clear there was nothing anyone could have done.... That is ego and not conscience....

Meaningless. I'm sorry, but what your saying is, if someone's "inner voice" is telling them to do what you think is right, it's their conscience. If it's telling them to do what you think is wrong, it's their ego. Proving nothing.

Yes but I was speaking of that age in which GOD starts holding a person accountable....

A person who was taught right from wrong, yes. Do you seriously believe that God judges a 13 year old who went to sunday school with the same standards as a 13 year old who grew up in the middle of a jungle?

[Fenris]

Here's a post about a boy who grew up in a North Korean gulag.

He was so indoctrinated that when his mother tried to escape, he turned her in. And he didn't even feel bad about it. He had to learn, years later, why that was wrong.

[MaryFreeman]

Meaningless. I'm sorry, but what your saying is, if someone's "inner voice" is telling them to do what you think is right, it's their conscience. If it's telling them to do what you think is wrong, it's their ego. Proving nothing.

No sir that is not what I am saying.... Last I knew this thread was not about lil ol' me....

A person who was taught right from wrong, yes. Do you seriously believe that God judges a 13 year old who went to sunday school with the same standards as a 13 year old who grew up in the middle of a jungle?

Absolutely not.... This was not my point.... We were speaking on matters of conscience....

[Fenris]

No sir that is not what I am saying.... Last I knew this thread was not about lil ol' me....

Everyone's inner voice does not tell them the same thing.

Absolutely not.... This was not my point.... We were speaking on matters of conscience....

So a kid who grew up in the jungle and a kid who grew up in a religious house in America have the same conscience? Obviously not.