Here's a question I've been chewing on....

[MaryFreeman]

Another poster on here asked if there was no serpent would Adam and Eve have sinned?

I honestly don't know....

Do you?

[amazzin]

It wasn't so much the serpent then it was the intent of Satan. Besides it had to happen for God's redemptive plan to come to pass

[BrckBrln]

In the story Adam and Eve are innocent, childlike beings. I don't see any reason to think they would have sinned in the absence of a tempter.

[MaryFreeman]

Well here is what I have been thinking.... I think Adam and Eve would not have sinned if it weren't for the sin of satan.... But I am not quite sure.... I think my thoughts are along the "the devil made me do it" track.... I am wondering if that line of reasoning is realistic?

[amazzin]

Everything points to the cross. Otherwise what we have is a feel good novel

[MoreMercy]

If it can happen, it will happen. (or already has) Until all things be restored.

[claybevan]

Well here is what I have been thinking.... I think Adam and Eve would not have sinned if it weren't for the sin of satan.... But I am not quite sure.... I think my thoughts are along the "the devil made me do it" track.... I am wondering if that line of reasoning is realistic?

I agree with Amazzin, it's all part of Gods plan for our redemption but a non believer listening to the story would say " no temptation, no need for a redemptive plan? The more I understand the more questions arise, then I think of John 16:12 I have more to tell you but you could not bear it ( think he was being polite there) It's all too lofty for me, where have I heard that before?
God grant us more wisdom cos I certainly need it!
Love in Him
mari

[GitRDunn]

This is an interesting question. I will have to chew on it awhile because it leads to some other questions that are just as interesting/difficult. If there was no possibility that they would have sinned without the serpent, did they have free will? If yes, then how was there zero chance they would sin? Was it from a lack of knowledge? If so, then how is this going to work in eternity? Do we still have our free will in eternity? If so, how does it happen that not one person out of the billions or trillions in heaven will ever choose to turn from God? If it was a lack of knowledge that kept Adam and Eve from sinning, will knowledge be stripped away from us? I always thought we would gain knowledge when entering Heaven?

Anyway, as I said, it is a very interesting and nontrivial question (sorry if my ramblings don't make much sense, it was all train of thought).

[Boo]

The only way that Adam and Eve could sin would to first lose their innocence. As long as they remained innocent; they could not be held accountable for sin.

Satan picked the only way available to corrupt God's creation. It matters not if he took the form of a serpent or anything else. It matters only that they gave up their innocence. Satan appealed to the innocent quest for knowledge to the point where they were willing to be disobedient. They only way that they could be disobedient was to be convinced that God was lying to them so therefore disobedience was not such a bad thing. That method of getting us to sin still works today.

We first have to get people to think that the scriptures are lying to them - that they cannot be understood or taken literally. When that is accomplished, finding sin less significant is the end result. It can be amazing to consider how many theologians today seem to be working for Satan. They don't have to be serpents.

[JohnDB]

The serpent is a metaphor for a type of wisdom. Not exactly the same type as God speaks of but similar.

In Egypt at the time the Hebrews gained their freedom Pharaoh wore a serpent on his headress to symbolize his wisdom.

Then we look at the poetic manner in which Genesis was written & we see that most likely it was Adam & Eve's desire to "have more" than what God had given them. That was the train of thought that got them in trouble.

Its called an anthropomorphism. Giving human characteristics to an inanimate thing.

Man centered wisdom has been condemned rightly so by God ever since.

[Love Fountain]

Well here is what I have been thinking.... I think Adam and Eve would not have sinned if it weren't for the sin of satan.... But I am not quite sure.... I think my thoughts are along the "the devil made me do it" track.... I am wondering if that line of reasoning is realistic?

Dear Mary,

We agree, I don't think they would've sinned if there was no satan, devil, old serpent, all the same entity per Revelations 12:9. However "the devil made me do it" is how I see Adam referring to Eve and blaming her. Eve was deceived by the serpent/devil but Adam was not deceived according to what is written. Imho, Adam knew what was going down and let it happen as he was right there the whole time. Seems to me, man is still blaming women to this very day!

Serpent in Genesis 3 is the hebrew Nachash and it means "shining one"! This reminds me of when we are told in the NT that satan will disguise(transform) himself as an angel(messenger) of light in 2Cor 11:14. When he came to Eve in the garden he sure was trying to appear as a messenger of light, all shiny and seeming wise as he calls into guestion God's word.

Have you ever considered the beginning being just like the end? In other words, what happened in the garden is what will happen again at the end. We can learn by what happened in the garden to know how things will come down at the end for those who still remain. Satan will be kicked out of heaven to the earth again, who will he go after first? I'd guess those who don't follow him or who are not deceived by him, like the bride of Christ. Interesting thing in the garden to think about, there was a husband and wife. When I think of a Bridegroom and Bride I think of the Bridegroom as being Christ, the husband and of the bride of Christ, the wife. Eve's husband messed up but the Husband to the bride of Christ won and overcame! The bride of Christ has the examples set forth by her husband Christ of how to beat satan too, what is said and by "It is written"!

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matt 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Matt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Luke 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Hope this helps!

Bless you,
Love Fountain

[Watchman]

Another poster on here asked if there was no serpent would Adam and Eve have sinned?

I honestly don't know....

Do you?

Well, there would have been no deception of Eve, so she would likely have been in the clear. Adam, OTOH, knowingly sinned, so were I alive back then, I'd hafta be very suspicious of him for at least 930 years!

[MaryFreeman]

Well, there would have been no deception of Eve, so she would likely have been in the clear. Adam, OTOH, knowingly sinned, so were I alive back then, I'd hafta be very suspicious of him for at least 930 years!

I guess this is the crux of my question.... I know that people have said it is all part of Gods plan.... But I believe Gods plan is because of His omniscience.... I know He knew what was going to happen when He created man and when He banished satan..... He knew satan was going to meddle.... But Adam was not fooled by satan.... He wasn't deceived into believing God was holding out on him.... Which is proof that more than just satan can cause us to sin.... Isn't it?

[Watchman]

I guess this is the crux of my question.... I know that people have said it is all part of Gods plan.... But I believe Gods plan is because of His omniscience.... I know He knew what was going to happen when He created man and when He banished satan..... He knew satan was going to meddle.... But Adam was not fooled by satan.... He wasn't deceived into believing God was holding out on him.... Which is proof that more than just satan can cause us to sin.... Isn't it?

It could be said that Adam allowed his feelings for Eve to sway him, couldn't it?

[MaryFreeman]

It could be said that Adam allowed his feelings for Eve to sway him, couldn't it?

Pffft!

Actually the bible doesn't give an explanation for Adam.... So I guess he is without excuse lol....