Here's a question I've been chewing on....

[Lily]

Isn't that what this thread/OP is about? Yes I think he would have sinned. He wasn't created under grace and did not fall from grace. He was created under the concept of the law even though the law had not been given yet. Adam transgressed God the one lawgiver. Sin is the transgression of the law.

And yet they had the Tree of Life and, once they transgressed, were cut off from its life sustaining fruit, "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

I hate to get off topic, but this brings a question to mind for me.

Did they need the tree of life while they were in the Garden? The way it's worded, it almost sounds like they had not eaten of it, yet, but would have needed to, even in the Garden.

[percho]

And yet they had the Tree of Life and, once they transgressed, were cut off from its life sustaining fruit, "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

I hate to get off topic, but this brings a question to mind for me.

Did they need the tree of life while they were in the Garden? The way it's worded, it almost sounds like they had not eaten of it, yet, but would have needed to, even in the Garden.

Yes I believe they would had had to eaten of it.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, the tree of life, which bare twelve fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree for the healing of the nations.

I wonder why the leaves and not the fruit?

[MaryFreeman]

Isn't that what this thread/OP is about? Yes I think he would have sinned. He wasn't created under grace and did not fall from grace. He was created under the concept of the law even though the law had not been given yet. Adam transgressed God the one lawgiver. Sin is the transgression of the law.

He was created quite apart from the Law and from Grace.... Neither were needed in his world before he decided God was holding out on him.... The question is would he have done it even without the presence of a tempter....

[MaryFreeman]

And yet they had the Tree of Life and, once they transgressed, were cut off from its life sustaining fruit, "lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

I hate to get off topic, but this brings a question to mind for me.

Did they need the tree of life while they were in the Garden? The way it's worded, it almost sounds like they had not eaten of it, yet, but would have needed to, even in the Garden.

They were only told not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil....

Yes they would have been allowed to eat the fruit of the tree of life.... Had they not eaten of the one they were told not to eat from....

[Lily]

They were only told not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil....

Yes they would have been allowed to eat the fruit of the tree of life.... Had they not eaten of the one they were told not to eat from....

Thanks Mary. I know they were allowed. But did they need to eat of it, for life, even while still in the garden?

As far as the serpent goes, the command (which provides a choice - to obey it or not) not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is what provided opportunity for temptation, whether in serpent form, a cute baby bunny, or a thought in our own mind. Whenever we have a choice to do this or that, one or the other is (more or less) tempting. Aside from the command, there would have been no temptation. So, I guess the real question (for me) is, could they have overcome it?

[EarlyCall]

The answer is obvious and I answered it. The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, before Adam was created and therefore Adam was going to sin. Adam was created able to die for the reason I posted earlier. So God through his only begotten sinless Son of whom Adam was the first type could die and destroy death and Satan by being bestowed with the promise God made before time began, eternal life. The grace of God. Look close and you can see death the result of sin in Gen 1:2. Adam brought death to all men.

I do not chisel anything in stone so correct me where wrong.

While what you say is quite true, your answer does not really answer the OP's question after all, in my opinion. Your answer is what actually is given all circumstances being the same, but the OP's question removed one of the variables from the equation, which you do not address and I did - using speculation of course which is what we are left with given the new variables. Do you see what I am saying?

[John 8:32]

Thanks Mary. I know they were allowed. But did they need to eat of it, for life, even while still in the garden?

As far as the serpent goes, the command (which provides a choice - to obey it or not) not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is what provided opportunity for temptation, whether in serpent form, a cute baby bunny, or a thought in our own mind. Whenever we have a choice to do this or that, one or the other is (more or less) tempting. Aside from the command, there would have been no temptation. So, I guess the real question (for me) is, could they have overcome it?

Do a little research on the word nephesh (and man became a living nephesh). Man was not created with life, but had the opportunity to take of the tree of life. Paraphrasing from an Indiana Jones movie "they chose poorly."

[MaryFreeman]

Thanks Mary. I know they were allowed. But did they need to eat of it, for life, even while still in the garden?

That is my assumption.... Or it wouldn't be there? To my thinking....

As far as the serpent goes, the command (which provides a choice - to obey it or not) not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, is what provided opportunity for temptation, whether in serpent form, a cute baby bunny, or a thought in our own mind. Whenever we have a choice to do this or that, one or the other is (more or less) tempting. Aside from the command, there would have been no temptation. So, I guess the real question (for me) is, could they have overcome it?

I can overcome tempting thoughts....

But I know how to use my free will.... Question is.... Did they?

[David Taylor]

Yes...and all of these passages were penned after the Fall...which renders them inapplicable.

So what? There are no scriptures written before the Fall.

Likewise, these scriptures that were written 'after' the Fall are applied to all human beings.

I believe Adam was a human being, therefore, these scriptures apply just as much to Adam as they do to everyone else.

No human being was ever created sinless; Adam might have lasted a bit longer than most of us before his first sin, but it was inevidable; because Adam wasn't God; and God alone is sinless.

[MaryFreeman]

No human being was ever created sinless; Adam might have lasted a bit longer than most of us before his first sin, but it was inevidable; because Adam wasn't God; and God alone is sinless.

Um I have a problem with this pov.... And it goes like this:

Jas 1:13-15 KJV Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Stands to reason that if God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He tempt any man.... That He also wouldn't create a sinfull man.... There was a human being (two in fact) that was created sinless.... One fell from that position.... The other died sinless on a cross....

[Lily]

Um I have a problem with this pov.... And it goes like this:

Jas 1:13-15 KJV Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Stands to reason that if God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He tempt any man.... That He also wouldn't create a sinfull man.... There was a human being (two in fact) that was created sinless.... One fell from that position.... The other died sinless on a cross....

God didn't tempt them, in fact He told them not to eat of the tree (of knowledge of good and evil), but He did allow the choice, which provided the opportunity for our lust to tempt us. So, they were drawn away of their own lust, and tempted (whether by the serpant or their own minds as we are). They weren't sinful, yet, but the potential was there. And when lust conceived, it brought forth sin and death (no more access to the tree of life).

They weren't perfect in the sense that they were like God who cannot be tempted by evil (v 14) - He does not lust after unrigteousness, as we might, therefore it can't tempt Him. However, they were innocent... until they knowingly disobeyed a (the) commandment.

[percho]

He was created quite apart from the Law and from Grace.... Neither were needed in his world before he decided God was holding out on him.... The question is would he have done it even without the presence of a tempter....

Mary, I believe he was created because the tempter was already here. God planted a garde3n eastward in Eden and placed the man he had created in it. Guess who was already there?

Was the man created as he was in order that as, the only begotten Son of God, the Son of man, made lower than the angels, partaking of flesh and blood as the first man Adam could die, thus through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;-----Hebrews 2?

[percho]

God didn't tempt them, in fact He told them not to eat of the tree (of knowledge of good and evil), but He did allow the choice, which provided the opportunity for our lust to tempt us. So, they were drawn away of their own lust, and tempted (whether by the serpant or their own minds as we are). They weren't sinful, yet, but the potential was there. And when lust conceived, it brought forth sin and death (no more access to the tree of life).

They weren't perfect in the sense that they were like God who cannot be tempted by evil (v 14) - He does not lust after unrigteousness, as we might, therefore it can't tempt Him. However, they were innocent... until they knowingly disobeyed a (the) commandment.

Now then think about Jesus of whom it was said that he was tempted in all points as we are yet without sin. We know that after fasting for 40 days and 40 nights he was tempted of by the devil Satan, yet without sin. How? How was he able to not sin?

Was it because he was conceived within a virgin by, Spirit the God Holy that enabled him to not succumb to the flesh of which he was?

[Lily]

Yes I believe they would had had to eaten of it.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, the tree of life, which bare twelve fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree for the healing of the nations.

I wonder why the leaves and not the fruit?

Sorry Percho, I just saw this.

I don't know. 12 tribes, 12 tpes of fruit. The leaves are for healing. Perhaps the fruit is nourishment/sustainment of life, as in the garden, then?

[MaryFreeman]

Mary, I believe he was created because the tempter was already here. God planted a garde3n eastward in Eden and placed the man he had created in it. Guess who was already there?

Was the man created as he was in order that as, the only begotten Son of God, the Son of man, made lower than the angels, partaking of flesh and blood as the first man Adam could die, thus through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;-----Hebrews 2?

Can you provide scripture for this?

Doesn't sound like my God....