The "Second Advent".....

[MaryFreeman]

I think I put this in the right spot....

Can't think of a better place to put it....

I have an issue with the term "Second coming".... Or "Second Advent" if you'd rather....

I search and search all through my bible and simply cannot find the term anywhere....

And besides that.... Christ came to earth and spoke to quite a few OT people.... Though they didn't know who He was.... Called Him the Angel of the Lord....

And besides that.... People use this unbiblical term to say that Jesus will only come back one time.... They use it to discredit the Rapture of the church.... Jesus couldn't possibly come back more than once or it wouldn't be called the second coming right? But the bible never says He will only come back once.... Never....

Do a word search.... You won't find that term....

Ok so that is more than one issue....

But still.... Could someone explain why Jesus is being put in a box that limits His return to just one showing?

Makes about as much sense as "sinner saved by grace"

[jeffweeder]

How many comings did Jesus refer to? He promised to come back and the faithful look forward to it.

Mockers refer to the promise of his coming, and the believing know what kind of people they ought to be before it does happen.

This led the writer of Hebrews to say that he will appear a second time to judge.
His reward will be with him when he comes.
When he appears we will be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

I dont believe Jesus spoke about himself coming multiple times, but he did mention something about this all happening on the last day.

[Traveler]

Well here are a few thoughts

When Jesus comes at the rapture we are to meet him in the clouds, in other words his feet are not going to be on the ground.

But when he returns at the battle of Armageddon for the setting up of his millennial reign, which happens quite a bit later, he returns to stay here.

[John 8:32]

Well here are a few thoughts

When Jesus comes at the rapture we are to meet him in the clouds, in other words his feet are not going to be on the ground.

But when he returns at the battle of Armageddon for the setting up of his millennial reign, which happens quite a bit later, he returns to stay here.

Interesting, your "rapture" theory has Christ returning twice. That kinda makes it a third coming, now doesn't it?

[billy-brown 2]

I think I put this in the right spot....

Can't think of a better place to put it....

I have an issue with the term "Second coming".... Or "Second Advent" if you'd rather....

I search and search all through my bible and simply cannot find the term anywhere....

And besides that.... Christ came to earth and spoke to quite a few OT people.... Though they didn't know who He was.... Called Him the Angel of the Lord....

And besides that.... People use this unbiblical term to say that Jesus will only come back one time.... They use it to discredit the Rapture of the church.... Jesus couldn't possibly come back more than once or it wouldn't be called the second coming right? But the bible never says He will only come back once.... Never....

Do a word search.... You won't find that term....

Ok so that is more than one issue....

But still.... Could someone explain why Jesus is being put in a box that limits His return to just one showing?

Makes about as much sense as "sinner saved by grace"

Mary,

The parable below indicates that Jesus will have angels assist Him in gathering all at the end of the age.

And the parable indicates that there are only two kinds of "fish"--good and bad; the "fish" in that parable represents ALL PEOPLE separated into righteous and wicked.

Matt. 13
47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Now, how many times will all of this happen?

[John 8:32]

Mary,

The parable below indicates that Jesus will have angels assist Him in gathering all at the end of the age.

And the parable indicates that there are only two kinds of "fish"--good and bad; the "fish" in that parable represents ALL PEOPLE separated into righteous and wicked.

Matt. 13
47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Now, how many times will all of this happen?

I believe the correct question here is what is the time frame and how long will it take for all to come to fruition.

[billy-brown 2]

I believe the correct question here is what is the time frame and how long will it take for all to come to fruition.

John,

The parable of Matt. 13 covers all humanity divided into 2 groups: the righteous (Good fish) and wicked (Bad fish).

That's ALL the fish in "the sea", yes?

And the parable indicates that this will occur at the end of the age; when is the end of the age?

Here's Jesus on this (again):

Matt. 13 (from Jesus . . .)
47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[quiet dove]

I think I put this in the right spot....

Can't think of a better place to put it....

I have an issue with the term "Second coming".... Or "Second Advent" if you'd rather....

I search and search all through my bible and simply cannot find the term anywhere....

And besides that.... Christ came to earth and spoke to quite a few OT people.... Though they didn't know who He was.... Called Him the Angel of the Lord....

And besides that.... People use this unbiblical term to say that Jesus will only come back one time.... They use it to discredit the Rapture of the church.... Jesus couldn't possibly come back more than once or it wouldn't be called the second coming right? But the bible never says He will only come back once.... Never....

Do a word search.... You won't find that term....

Ok so that is more than one issue....

But still.... Could someone explain why Jesus is being put in a box that limits His return to just one showing?

Makes about as much sense as "sinner saved by grace"

I don't know why Jesus or God are put into a box...don't really think that is the intent though either.

The term Second Advent may not be found in the Bible, but that does not make what it defines unbiblical. In other words, First Advent isn't in there either but refers to His coming in humility, as a man, and paying for our sins. The Second Advent refers to what we have described in Matthew 24 and Revelation 19, plus other places, His returning in all glory.

The word Trinity, nor Rapture are in there either...but many believe that the the terms define truths taught in the Bible...thus the term is not unbiblical.

The term Rapture and the term Second Advent describing two different events, depending on ones views

And a "sinner saved by grace"...same thing

Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they."

Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

[John 8:32]

John,

The parable of Matt. 13 covers all humanity divided into 2 groups: the righteous (Good fish) and wicked (Bad fish).

That's ALL the fish in "the sea", yes?

And the parable indicates that this will occur at the end of the age; when is the end of the age?

Here's Jesus on this (again):

Matt. 13 (from Jesus . . .)
47“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet cast into the sea, and gathering fish of every kind;
48and when it was filled, they drew it up on the beach; and they sat down and gathered the good fish into containers, but the bad they threw away.
49“So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,
50and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

And then Revelation fills in some details showing that there is more than one resurrection, and more than one age...

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There is a coming millenium. During this millenium, the "rest of the dead" are not alive...

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

They are not part of the first resurrection, but live again at least 1000 years after the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection involves no judgement at the time of the resurrection as witnessed by verses 1-10. That is not hard to understand...

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The House of God (the church) is being judged right now.

Those in the resurrections of verses 11-15 are then judged.

There is more than one age.

This is not too difficult of a concept, humans realize that there was a stone age, bronze age, iron age. There was the dark ages, the middle ages etc. Seems to me that these ages came to an end. There was more than one age and each age had an end.

[MaryFreeman]

Interesting, your "rapture" theory has Christ returning twice. That kinda makes it a third coming, now doesn't it?

Wouldn't it?

Is that an impossibility?

[John 8:32]

Wouldn't it?

Is that an impossibility?

A second coming the third time. Hmmm, things that make you go Hmmm.

[MaryFreeman]

A second coming the third time. Hmmm, things that make you go Hmmm.

There were many comings of Jesus before His physical birth.... If you believe bible scholars.... The Angel of the Lord was Jesus.... The Lord whom Abraham spoke to physically was Jesus.... It had to be because no physical man can look on God and live....

So if Jesus could come and go as He pleased in the OT then why in the world is everyone limiting His coming again to just once? As if it is physically impossible for it to happen more than one time! That makes no sense....

[John 8:32]

There were many comings of Jesus before His physical birth.... If you believe bible scholars.... The Angel of the Lord was Jesus.... The Lord whom Abraham spoke to physically was Jesus.... It had to be because no physical man can look on God and live....

So if Jesus could come and go as He pleased in the OT then why in the world is everyone limiting His coming again to just once? As if it is physically impossible for it to happen more than one time! That makes no sense....

Ah, but the coming we are referring to is the time of Zech 14, Mat 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Rev 19, etc. How many times do you suppose this has happened or will happen? Several, many, thousands or just once?

[MaryFreeman]

Ah, but the coming we are referring to is the time of Zech 14, Mat 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Rev 19, etc. How many times do you suppose this has happened or will happen? Several, many, thousands or just once?

Zec 14:1-21 LITV Behold, the day of Jehovah comes, and your spoil shall be divided among you. (2) For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem. And the city shall be captured, and the houses plundered, and the women ravished. And half the city shall go into exile and the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (3) And Jehovah shall go out and fight against those nations, like the day He fought in the day of battle. (4) And His feet shall stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives shall divide from its middle, from the east even to the west, a very great valley. And half of the mountain shall move toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (5) And you shall flee to the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah. And Jehovah my God shall come, and all the saints with You. (6) And it will be in that day, there shall not be light; the glorious ones will shrink. (7) And it will be one day which shall be known to Jehovah; not day and not night, but it will be, there will be light at evening time. (8) And it shall be in that day, living waters shall go out from Jerusalem, half of them shall go toward the eastern sea, and half of them toward the western sea; in summer and in winter it shall be. (9) And Jehovah shall be King over all the earth. In that day there shall be one Jehovah, and His name one. (10) All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. And it shall rise and dwell in its place, from Benjamin's Gate to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananeel to the king's winepresses. (11) And they shall live in it. And there shall not again be a shutting in, but Jerusalem shall dwell safely. (12) And this shall be the plague with which Jehovah will strike all the peoples who have fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rest in their sockets, and their tongues shall rot in their mouths. (13) And it shall be in that day, a great panic of Jehovah shall be among them; and they shall each one lay hold of his neighbor, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbor. (14) And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of the surrounding nations shall be gathered, gold, and silver, and clothing, very much. (15) And so shall be the plague of the horse, the mule, the camel, and the ass, and all the beasts which shall be in those camps, like this plague. (16) And it shall be, everyone who is left from all the nations which came up against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, Jehovah of Hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (17) And it shall be, whoever will not go up from the families of the earth to Jerusalem to worship the King, Jehovah of Hosts, there shall even be no rain on them. (18) And if the family of Egypt does not go up, nor come in, then the rain shall not be on them, but the plague with which Jehovah shall strike the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (19) This shall be Egypt's offense, and the offense of all nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (20) In that day there shall be on the bells of the horses, HOLY TO JEHOVAH. And the pots in the house of Jehovah shall be like the bowls before the altar. (21) And every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holy to Jehovah of Hosts. And all those who sacrifice shall come and take of them, and boil in them. And in that day there shall not be a trader in the house of Jehovah of Hosts any more.

This speaks of the day Jesus will come back and establish a kingdom that He will rule for one thousand years.... Which happens ONCE....

Matthew 24 speaks of the period just before the thousand year reign which we call "The tribulation".... Naturally it only happens once....

Ah but Luke is what I wish to get to.... Because Jesus speaks of the same thing that He spoke of in Matthew and Mark.... But He adds something very interesting.... Watch this:

Luk 21:29-36 LITV And He spoke a parable to them: You see the fig tree and all the trees. (30) Now when they sprout leaves, seeing it, you will know from yourselves that now the summer is near. (31) So also when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. (32) Truly I say to you, In no way will this generation pass away until all these things shall occur. (33) The heaven and the earth will pass away, but My Words will not pass away, never! (34) But take heed to yourselves that your hearts not be loaded down with headaches, and drinking, and anxieties of life, and that day come suddenly upon you (35) as a snare, for it will come in on all those sitting on the face of all the earth. Isa. 24:17 (36) Then be watchful at every time, begging that you be counted worthy to escape all these things, the things being about to happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.

The fig tree is a symbol of Israel.... So when you see Israel reborn as a fig tree is rejuvenated and budding leaves at the start of summer.... Then you know that you are living in the time just before the end.... But what is He talking about when He says to watch and pray that you are "counted worthy to escape all these things, the things being about to happen"?

I'll back up a few verses....

Luk 21:25-28 LITV And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with bewilderment, roaring of sea and of surf, (26) men fainting from fear, and expectation of the things coming on the earth. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (27) And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and much glory. Dan. 7:13 (28) But these things beginning to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

When these things start to happen on earth we are to look to the sky.... Why? Because those counted worthy will escape the trouble to come.... Redemption draws near....

This event is popularly known as the Rapture of the church.... I am sure we all know where the term originated from so I won't belabor the point.... But these verses match up nicely with what Jesus told the church of Philadelphia....

Rev 3:7-11 LITV And to the angel of the assembly in Philadelphia, write: These things says the Holy One, the True One, the One having "the key of David," "the One opening, and no one shuts; and shuts, and no one opens:" Isa. 22:22 (8) I know your works. Behold, I have given a door being opened before you, and no one is able to shut it, for you have a little power and have kept My Word, and have not denied My name. (9) Behold, I give out of the synagogue of Satan those saying themselves to be Jews, and they are not, but they lie. Behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they shall know that I loved you. (10) Because you kept the Word of My patience, I also will keep you out of the hour of trial which is going to come on all the habitable world in order to try those dwelling on the earth. (11) Behold, I am coming quickly. Hold what you have that no one take your crown.

Of course the assembly in Philadelphia is symbolic of the bride of Christ.... His true church.... Those who keep His commandments.... Those who don't just talk the talk.... They will be kept out of the hour of trial.... But He doesn't hide them under a rock....

Mat 24:38-42 LITV For as they were in the days before the flood: eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah went into the ark. (39) And they did not know until the flood came and took all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man. (40) At that time two will be out in the field; the one is taken away, and the one is left; (41) two grinding at the mill; one is taken away, and one is left. (42) Watch, then, for you do not know in what hour your Lord comes.

This is different from the dragnet parable.... In the dragnet all the fish are caught and then separated.... In this one Jesus says one will be taken and the other left.... Right where they were.... And the one left is not thrown into the lake of fire.... So this isn't a judgment either.... This shows that the dragnet happens after this particular event.... Which means that even after the Rapture people still have a chance to come to Christ.... Because look.... He separates the good fish from the bad.... The ones taken were the ones counted worthy to escape the events of the tribulation.... Because we are not subject to Gods wrath.... How could we be? We accepted His son.... We kept His commandments and loved Him beyond all human reason and logic....

I keep getting asked how many times the events in your scriptures occur.... Once.... But the event in the scriptures I listed happens once too.... Apart from the events involving the hour of trial and the end of the age....

I could post more.... But why?

The question was why do people limit Jesus to just one future coming.... When He proved in the ot that He can come and go as He pleases....

[John146]

I think I put this in the right spot....

Can't think of a better place to put it....

I have an issue with the term "Second coming".... Or "Second Advent" if you'd rather....

I search and search all through my bible and simply cannot find the term anywhere....

And besides that.... Christ came to earth and spoke to quite a few OT people.... Though they didn't know who He was.... Called Him the Angel of the Lord....

And besides that.... People use this unbiblical term to say that Jesus will only come back one time.... They use it to discredit the Rapture of the church.... Jesus couldn't possibly come back more than once or it wouldn't be called the second coming right? But the bible never says He will only come back once.... Never....

Do a word search.... You won't find that term....

Ok so that is more than one issue....

But still.... Could someone explain why Jesus is being put in a box that limits His return to just one showing?

Makes about as much sense as "sinner saved by grace"

The term "second coming" may not be in scripture but the concept of a second coming of Christ is there.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The concept of a second coming of Christ is found in scripture, but the concept of a third coming after His second coming is not there.