Is sanctification an event, a process, or both?

[episkopos]

What makes you think I don't?

Quote Originally Posted by Noeb View Post
Where have I negated growth and maturity, episkopos?

In making the instant attainment of holiness in the heart to mean holiness in the soul...by making purity the same as maturity.

[shepherdsword]

In making the instant attainment of holiness in the heart to mean holiness in the soul...by making purity the same as maturity.

That is a common mistake. While the blood of Jesus instantly cleanses and covers our sin it is the Spirit with leads us through the wilderness experience to cleanse us of our idols and to mature us.We are to be broken in our flesh so that the glory of Jesus,revealed in our new nature is exposed for the world to see.The process is ongoing and (hopefully) we get better in our reflection of His glory,day by day and year by year.

[glad4mercy]

I understand the lack of "root" here to mean the lack of being firmly planted, or established.

Good answer. I can agree with that.

I don't see how a faith that has no root and produces no fruit could represent a living faith.

I agree.

Such soil I believe represents a person not properly prepared in heart.

Good answer! I think sometimes people make an intellectual or emotional decision without repentance or true conversion. They go forward and say a "sinners prayer" get baptized, and join a church, but those things are not what converts us. It is the Holy Spirit that converts us.

If the Bible clearly stated, "saved person lost salvation" or "regenerated person became UN-regenerated" or "born again person became UN-born again" or someone who was "sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit became UN-sealed with the Holy Spirit" then I would no doubt agree that a truly regenerate person could lose their salvation.

No the Bible does not say any of this, but it does have strong warnings that are directed to believers. The way I see it, if we let willful, deliberate, unrepentant sin come into our lives, it will grieve and quench the Spirit and cause us to not bear acceptable fruit, for it is not us that bears the fruit, but the Spirit in us. Now is it possible for a Christian to backslide and fall into sin? Indeed it is. If a Christian does fall into sin, God will convict them, and if they do not repent, He will chasten them etc. Yet as long as a person is living in willful, unrepentant sin, I don't think it is possible to bring forth genuinely good fruit. We might bear some type of fruit, but would it be acceptable to God? That is the question. Not all fruit is good fruit. Many people think that because they are doing a lot of stuff, it ammounts to fruitfulness, but God tests the hearts and the fruit.

I believe that this would be no accident. This person would have to blatantly reject Christ with full understanding of what they are doing. Do you agree with that?

Yes I do. Yet sin is progressive, and a little leaven will eventually permeate the whole loaf. It is possible to start out with what we wrongly consider "a little sin" yet if we perservere in that, it will spoil the grapes, and lead to bigger sins. Additionally, when a backslidden christian lives in a prolonged state of willful, unrepentant sin a hardening of the heart will occur. So the main thing is that we need to take heed and give no place to the devil.

You are not wrong to believe this. While a person is not saved by works and does not remain saved because of works, God saves only those who persevere in faith. The Greek word meno, which the King James Version translates as "abide," means "remain, continue, stay." I don't believe this refers to some special state of "resting" in Christ that only super saints achieve. Rather, this abiding (remaining, continuing, staying) is equivalent to persevering in the faith. If we continue in the faith, then we have persevered.

Very true.

The question remains, "what about those who profess to have faith but do not continue?" Did they really have saving faith or was their profession without possession? Did they lose their salvation or did their failure to continue demonstrate that although they were among us, they were not truly of us?

The answer to this question is the crux of the OSAS issue in my opinion. I know that believers are secure in Christ, and our security is not based on how strong our grip on Him is, but it is based on the strength of His hand holding us. So I do not deny the security of the Believer, On the other hand, I believe that we need to be dilligent, sober, vigilante, etc. because the devil walks about as a roaring lion seeking to devour is, and we need to take heed lest we let the things which we have heard slip.

Thank you for your great responses. As always I have enjoyed your posts.

[episkopos]

That is a common mistake. While the blood of Jesus instantly cleanses and covers our sin it is the Spirit with leads us through the wilderness experience to cleanse us of our idols and to mature us.We are to be broken in our flesh so that the glory of Jesus,revealed in our new nature is exposed for the world to see.The process is ongoing and (hopefully) we get better in our reflection of His glory,day by day and year by year.

Amen! Even Jesus (who knew no sin) was led into the wilderness to be tested and purified in His own soul.

I have stated this before about shooting at a range. Sanctification and maturity are like this. We start out shooting at 20 yards hitting the bullseye every time. We start to think how easy it is until the next time the target is at 100 yards...and we miss the bullseye because we are assuming it will be just as easy. Then we get used to that distance again and grow smug once again. But again God moves the target back...the more smug we are the further He puts it back knowing we cannot hit the bullseye. This is a lesson for us. Pride goes before a fall and humility before honour.

So we learn to never trust in ourselves but always trust in the Lord. Out of all the people who left Egypt...only Joshua and Caleb entered into the promised land. Only they were still shooting accurately at such a distance.

[episkopos]

The way I see it, if we let willful, deliberate, unrepentant sin come into our lives, it will grieve and quench the Spirit and cause us to not bear acceptable fruit, for it is not us that bears the fruit, but the Spirit in us, working in us and through us that bears the fruit. Now is it possible for a Christian to backslide and fall into sin? Indeed it is. If a Christian does fall into sin, God will convict them, and if they do not repent, He will Chasten them etc. Yet as long as a person is living in willful, unrepentant sin, I don't think it is possible to bring forth genuinely good fruit, for I think that the sin would poison it. So yes, I think it is possible to bear fruit and then stop bearing it, or at least stop bearing "good fruit".

It should be remembered that although all sin is sin there remains that the sins of the soul are worse than the sins of the flesh. Spiritual smugness and pride are worse than physical sins. Jesus stated that prostitutes will get into the kingdom before the religious hypocrites. So by willful sins we don't mean sins we necessarily "know" we are doing. It means we are sinning by being wilfull as opposed to humble and obedient and teachable.

On the other hand we can just sin as we please and still claim we are saved and holy because of a previous enlightenment such as practiced by the gnostics...this is the deepest form of sin.

So we have the three levels of sin...


1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[glad4mercy]

It should be remembered that although all sin is sin there remains that the sins of the soul are worse than the sins of the flesh. Spiritual smugness and pride are worse than physical sins. Jesus stated that prostitutes will get into the kingdom before the religious hypocrites. So by willful sins we don't mean sins we necessarily "know" we are doing. It means we are sinning by being wilfull as opposed to humble and obedient and teachable.

Good distinction. What I meant by willful sin is the sin that a person clings to and is not willing to let go, not a person who may be overtaken in a fault, yet is contrite and repentant and who God is healing.

God can and will heal us of backslidings if we continually come to Him.

[Noeb]

In making the instant attainment of holiness in the heart to mean holiness in the soul...by making purity the same as maturity.

I haven't done this. I am sorry if my poor ability to communicate has caused you to think I have.

[episkopos]

I haven't done this. I am sorry if my poor ability to communicate has caused you to think I have.

You have stated that the soul does not need to be conquered for the Lord...even stating that there is no such thing as a soul distinct from the spirit and body...which goes against the scriptures...

1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


So just what do you hold to in regards becoming wholly sanctified? Are you walking without sin?

Do you see that claiming to be a holy sinner is the worst form of sin there is?

[Noeb]

I haven't said those things and I explained my view of that verse.

[episkopos]

The process part of sanctification is the way of the cross...

"To walk the way of the cross is to trust that God can and will bring about a better end by God’s own power than I could orchestrate on my own.

When we embrace ways of death, we entrust ourselves to the God who gives life to the dead. And this means relinquishing the power we have (all too often do actually have!) at our disposal to bring about the future we envision for ourselves and, let’s face it, the future we envision for the people around us." - Daniel Kirk

[Noeb]

To walk the way of the cross is to trust the one who walked it. That God has brought about a better end by God’s own power than I could orchestrate on my own.

When we embrace this way of life (the law of the Spirit of life in Christ -Rom 8), we entrust ourselves to the God who gives life to the dead. And this means relinquishing the power we have (all too often do actually have!) at our disposal to bring about the future we envision for ourselves and,let’s face it,the future we envision for the people around us.

[Saved7]

Sanctification is both. God first sanctifies you, makes you holy (prepares you for use) through giving you faith in Christ; but then it's up to you to make yourself holy (used only for His purposes) unto the Lord...thus sanctifying yourself. (With the power of the Holy spirit)

[episkopos]

Sanctification is both. God first sanctifies you, makes you holy (prepares you for use) through giving you faith in Christ; but then it's up to you to make yourself holy (used only for His purposes) unto the Lord...thus sanctifying yourself. (With the power of the Holy spirit)

Amen!!! We are set free in Christ...but just like the 10 lepers who were healed but only one returned to submit thanks to Jesus...so we must be diligent to submit and commit ALL our ways to the Lord. It is not a done deal we can now ignore...our sanctification is a continuing work of growing into the kind of love that gave itself for us at the cross.

[episkopos]

To walk the way of the cross is to trust the one who walked it. That God has brought about a better end by God’s own power than I could orchestrate on my own.

When we embrace this way of life (the law of the Spirit of life in Christ -Rom 8), we entrust ourselves to the God who gives life to the dead. And this means relinquishing the power we have (all too often do actually have!) at our disposal to bring about the future we envision for ourselves and,let’s face it,the future we envision for the people around us.

This confuses what God has done sovereignly for ALL men with what makes US personally appropriate the life that comes after a death WITH Christ.

We are to be conformed to Christ...not just believe that Christ conformed to God.

[Noeb]

Please post the conformed to Christ passage!