JOHN 6:65 CEV-EN
Then Jesus said, “You cannot come to me, unless the Father makes you want to come. That is why I have told these things to all of you.”
God makes us love Him?
Veteran
JOHN 6:65 CEV-EN
Then Jesus said, “You cannot come to me, unless the Father makes you want to come. That is why I have told these things to all of you.”
God makes us love Him?
נתהלך באור
The NT is based on a new heart that is already in love with God...
Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Formerly "Adullam" from other sites!
Striving to apprehend that for which I have been apprehended in Christ Jesus.
Walk in the Light! (התהלכו באור)
Grand Master
God changes our hearts so that we can love Him. Yet we must be willing to let Him change us. The Holy Spirit's call is the invitation to forgiveness ,fellowship and communion with God, and to be made into what we were created to be. The unregenerate person cannot cleanse or change his own heart, ( ...while we were yet without strength), therefore, we cannot come to God unless the Holy Spirit moves upon our hearts. Yet His Grace can be resisted. Now is the day of salvation.Originally Posted by Jeffinator
1 John 1:7- But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
2 Corinthians 7:1- Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
I Tim. 1:15
Jeffinator,
Did you compare this verse in context with the rest of the chapter, the rest of the NT and the rest of all scripture? (NT & OT)
You see it's very easy to come to strange conclusions if you just try to focus on one single piece (In this case John 6:65) of scripture and try to use it as the sole basis of answering a question or forming an opinion.
What does the rest of scripture show us when taken as a whole? God gives us a choice. He very well could have easily set it up during creation so that we would never sin, we do only exactly what He wants us to do exactly when He wants us to with no free will and no conscious choice about it on our part. He could have made puppets instead of men.
Does the bible and scripture tell us that He did this? Of course not. We have free will to believe or not believe. We have free will to worship and serve Him or not.
We have free will. Otherwise why would all be judged one day? He does not make us love Him. If He did there would have been no need or reason for the cross.
Mod Note: I'm moving this to Bible Chat. It seems a more fitting place for this conversation.
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
guest
***
John 6:37:All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:39:And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40:And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44:No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65:And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
No one can come to God and say they believe or become a follower of Jesus- God draws people to him to be his sheep.
Followers do not choose God,like it is with other Religions where you can choose the God,that is not how it is with Christianity.
Jesus chose the Apostles,the Apostles did not choose Jesus.
So it is with Christianity we cannot say we choose Jesus - because God draws people...some people were not even meant to be converted..
Matthew 13:15:For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mark 4:12:That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
guest
***
Deuteronomy? - this is in the Pentateuch,in context,who is this written to?(Deuteronomy)
Verse 5 is a hint ''thy fathers'' as well as in verse 9 and verse 20
Regular Contributor
***
Hello Jeffinator,
Imho, love cannot be forced or it's not love. Do you think you can make someone love you?
Bless you,
Love Fountain
Member
*
It depends on what bible you read,i believe "granted" is a more accurate translation
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."New Living Translation (©2007)
Then he said, "That is why I said that people can't come to me unless the Father gives them to me."
English Standard Version (©2001)
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
International Standard Version (©2008)
So he said, "That's why I told you that no one can come to me unless it be granted him by the Father."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And he said to them, “Because of this, I said to you that no man can come to me unless it has been given to him from my Father.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
So he added, "That is why I told you that people cannot come to me unless the Father provides the way."
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
American King James Version
And he said, Therefore said I to you, that no man can come to me, except it were given to him of my Father.
American Standard Version
And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And he said: Therefore did I say to you, that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father.
Darby Bible Translation
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no one can come to me unless it be given to him from the Father.
Member
*
No, God doesn't make us love Him, He grants us the power to love Him.
For after the famous passage of Justification by Grace through faith in Ephesians 2:8-9. we read this:
For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:10
When we look at James 2:14-26. we see that faith without works, is dead (James 2:14; 26). Not our works but the work of the Holy Spirit which is love:
Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
James 2:8, 12
8) If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
12) So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Galatians5:6, 13-14
6) For in Jesus Christ neither circucision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love.
13) For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, by by love serve one another.
14) For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
For even Peter seems to tell us that the Holy Spirit gives us this power to love (I Peter 1:22). And even the writer of Hebrews tells us that the true believer, fruit is show in this manner. (Hebrews 6:7-10)
I miss Pluto
Jeff, most translations that I have looked at this morning say “given” or “granted” by the Father. Look at these 18 parallel translations if you want to. http://bible.cc/john/6-65.htm
We have to come to Jesus on God’s terms. There is no other way. And – in and of ourselves, in our sinful natures – we will NEVER desire Jesus. Our carnal and fleshly terms don’t include submission to Jesus Christ.
So, the Father, as a gift to us, enables us via the Holy Spirit to “desire” to come to Jesus. Or as Jesus said in verse 45 of that same chapter, “No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him.”
So, God gives us the desire to come to Christ, but what we DO with that desire is up to us. We can obey that desire and submit our lives to Him or we can rebel against it and claim that we can handle things all by ourselves. Even if we use your translation – the CEV – it says God “makes you want to come to Him”. It didn’t say “forced” you to. “Makes you want to” doesn’t not mean that you will. It means that you have now been given the ability to – if you so choose.
God doesn’t force anyone to do anything. But we cannot submit ourselves to Jesus and make Him the Lord and Savior of our lives unless God enables us to do so first. And we should be eternally grateful that He does.
One more thing. BrianW, in post #4, is right on the mark. You can’t go around making claims like this based on one sentence. The Bible must be studied, read, and learned as a whole unit.
Case in point. Do you know who Jesus is talking to in this chapter? He is talking to a large group of people that He miraculously fed the day before. He is talking to people who witnessed Him break up five loaves and two fish and feed them (over 5000). Many of those people claimed to be disciples or followers of Jesus.
But all they wanted from Him after the miracle that they saw was for Him to come and live with them forever and be their Cosmic Baker. They only wanted him to provide for their physical needs. When He tries to tell them about Him being the Bread of Life and about spiritual things and about His being the Son of God sent from the Father, they didn’t want to hear any of that.
Jesus tries to expose and cut away their fleshly desire for Him, but they walk away and leave Him.
Many people who claim to be Christians today have not allowed God through His Holy Spirit to gift them with the desire to love Jesus and submit to Him. And some who do have the desire have not followed through with the submission of their lives to Him.
They have only joined the church and claim to follow Christ because they have fleshly needs they want taken care of. They wanted Jesus to take away their pain, their addictions, restore their marriages, restore their jobs, restore their relationships with estranged family member, give them peace of mind, spouses, hope, and more. And they come to church every Sunday and read their Bibles, but they are lost as the local atheist down the street.
They never allowed the gift of God that granted them the ability to come to Jesus for Jesus’ sake and for His becoming the Lord of their lives’ sake to change them. They have never loved Jesus in return. He is just their Cosmic Provider.
God gave them the desire – He is drawing them. But they are not making the right choice with their lives.
".....it's your nickel"
Veteran
I would not believe that translation of scriptures.
John 6 NKJV
6565 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
It says nothing about making someone love Him.
John 6 KJV
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Posting Freak
Either willing or he makes us. Which is it? Really........
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
.......what stronger method is needed than the cross?
נתהלך באור
With a reasoning like this NO scriptures have ever been addressed to rich modern westerners. So the bible is not for us?
Php_3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Formerly "Adullam" from other sites!
Striving to apprehend that for which I have been apprehended in Christ Jesus.
Walk in the Light! (התהלכו באור)
Grand Master
We could argue whether or not Paul let God do anything, Jonah also comes to mind.
Senior Member
Yes we choose God.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
This is the origin of our choice.
Proverbs 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
It is every man's choice to choose the fear of the Lord.
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
It is every man's choice to choose to serve the Lord or not.
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
It is every man's choice to choose to seek the Lord and be rewarded for that decision.
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us.
It is every man's choice to choose, seek and find the Lord.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
It is every man's choice to choose to seek the Kingdom of God and his righteousness.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks