Gay marriage any worse than a woman not being a virgin?

[Nobunaga]

The bible prohibits the act and does not have the concept of gay marriage.

Very informative and insightful thanks for that.

add

[keyzer soze]

Very informative and insightful thanks for that.

I still do not believe this passage is a good comparison of the 2. It is a poor example after reading it and shows bible ignorance IMO.

The fact that we don't live in a theocracy does mean that we all get a say and a vote. I just fear the day that we are scared to give our say because of being called a "hater" or some other name simply for having principles and morals built on something bigger than ourselves. Whenever I enter this discussion/debate, I simply say that I couldn't care one way or the other personally, but because the bible that I believe in states "X", I side with "X".

It cracks me up how 85% of the USA claims to be Christian yet they don't believe that the bible is the inspired word of God. I believe that percentage better represents people who have been baptized in a church who recognizes Jesus Christ in some way.... sad.

[RSouthward]

If, as a society, we continue to create anti-God policies and practice wickedness, what makes us think that we shall somehow be immune to the judgments given to other cultures in the Bible who violated God's statutes?

Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Wow- this is profound and i completely agree. We are to be the salt and light to the world. But, how can we be salt if we loose out saltiness? Matthew 5:13-16 says,

"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."

As others have stated I believe that God is the ultimate judge and that we should be slow to judge our brother with a speck in his eye when we have a plank in our eye. Is our anger against homosexuality completely pure? What about our pride? We all have our sin. Jesus ate with the tax collectors and prostitues...wouldn't that be like eating with the homosexuals, prostitutes, social outcasts of today. He ate with them to show them He loved them...He had 2 responses when He saw what we see as sin- either to rebuke the demon that was on the person or tell the person their sins were forgiven and sin no more. This is an interesting thing to think about. We are not fighting with each other but with principalities (Eph 6:12). It's a spiritual battle.

[jesse]

Post deleted due to lameness.

[keyzer soze]

Everyone always runs to the separation of church and state. Does anyone have a better definition of what that means or exactly what that is inferred from? I believe this phrase gets abused but I have never had it explained to me exactly where it comes from and what the original context was.

[shepherdsword]

Marriage is a covenant you make with God. If a marriage is sinful he will not recognize that covenant.

BTW, I don't know if you meant it this way but I took your view rather offensivly. I am a single mother. I have never married. Obviously I am not a virgin. I plan on marrying in October though.
I asked forgiveness for my sexual sin, and God forgave me.
Please be careful how you say things. While on the outside it is clear I will not enter marriage as a virgin, but my heart is right with God. He forgave me. You and others should not judge.

You are just as pure in the Lord's eyes as any virgin once you have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus. Don't be offended...be confident!

[glazer1972]

Who is the real authority?

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

You can call it gay marriage, same sex marriage or even a space shuttle, but it is not marriage. The Designer and Definer of marriage says that it is only between a man and a woman. Two people of the same sex can NOT marry, no matter what they call it.

True statement. God intended marriage to be between one man and one woman till death parts them.

[Luciano Vinci]

The only reason gay marriage, or abortion for that matter gets so much attention from Christians is because they are matters of public policy. The state is seeking to make gay marriage an acceptable public practice, like it did abortion. If in the next few years the government decides to legalize public drunkedness, pedophilia, beastiality, theft, etc. We all would stand opposed to it as a public policy.

We are all opposed to sin, it makes no difference which. So the argument that Christians seem to focus on abortion and homosexuality, much more than adultery, greed, lust, etc. is not because we choose these issues, its because these particular sins (abortion, homosexuality) are paraded as acceptable, normal and even moral decisions. If abortion and homosexuality were still illegal, they would still be prevalent practices in our culture, however, there would be less backlash from the Christian community. They would be treated as any other sin. Its the state dictating what is acceptable moral behavior is, that causes so much of an uproar.

Lastly, we as American Christians, must come to terms with the fact that we are no longer a Christian nation (if we ever were). To place Biblical standards upon a Godless society is vanity. Israel and Judah (just before their captivities) had access to the Law of God, and it made little if any effect on their morality. You cannot legislate morality to an immoral or amoral people. Only a true national revival can change the hearts and minds of its people. Political involvement, grassroots efforts, causes, etc. only slow the tide. But lets face the facts, we are on the wrong side of every issue coming down the pike. Maybe that's a good thing though. I am sure the early Christians weren't so happy with Nero's policy toward them (i.e. burning, lion-eating, crucifying); but they still managed to thrive.

[aftertheflood]

Any sexual activity outside of the bounds laid forth in scripture are sin.

[Watchman]

Lastly, we as American Christians, must come to terms with the fact that we are no longer a Christian nation (if we ever were).

We were, a long time ago, a Christian nation. Our roots are Christian. Our founding documents, the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution, are documents written by Christians. Although the revisionists obscure this truth, it is true nonetheless. Are we no longer a Christian nation? God knows. Those of us who understand our founding and who know our Father are not without effect. The outcome remains to be seen.

blessings,

Watchman

[keck553]

We were, a long time ago, a Christian nation. Our roots are Christian. Our founding documents, the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution, are documents written by Christians. Although the revisionists obscure this truth, it is true nonetheless. Are we no longer a Christian nation? God knows. Those of us who understand our founding and who know our Father are not without effect. The outcome remains to be seen.

blessings,

Watchman

Agreed. We need to push back every single time this revisionsim is brought forward.

[teddyv]

The formation of the USA and its documents are drenched in the culture and thought of the Enlightenment which prized science, rationality and secular humanism above all. We have certainly been living off the avails of the Christian morality and ethic that permeated the Middle Ages/Reformation.

[A820djd]

We were, a long time ago, a Christian nation. Our roots are Christian. Our founding documents, the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution, are documents written by Christians. Although the revisionists obscure this truth, it is true nonetheless. Are we no longer a Christian nation? God knows. Those of us who understand our founding and who know our Father are not without effect. The outcome remains to be seen.

blessings,

Watchman

Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3)

The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion"

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." -letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." -1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches

Further on the beliefs of Jefferson (he believed in Natures God not Trinity)

"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet the one is not three, and the three are not one: to divide mankind by a single letter into ["consubstantialists and like-substantialists"]. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of factitious religion, and they would catch no more flies. We should all then, like the quakers, live without an order of priests, moralise for ourselves, follow the oracle of conscience, and say nothing about what no man can understand, nor therefore believe; for I suppose belief to be the assent of the mind to an intelligible proposition." -- Jefferson's Letter to John Adams, August 22, 1813

[Luciano Vinci]

Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3)

The 1796 Treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "not in any sense founded on the Christian religion"

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." -letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." -1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches

Further on the beliefs of Jefferson (he believed in Natures God not Trinity)

"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet the one is not three, and the three are not one: to divide mankind by a single letter into ["consubstantialists and like-substantialists"]. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests. Sweep away their gossamer fabrics of factitious religion, and they would catch no more flies. We should all then, like the quakers, live without an order of priests, moralise for ourselves, follow the oracle of conscience, and say nothing about what no man can understand, nor therefore believe; for I suppose belief to be the assent of the mind to an intelligible proposition." -- Jefferson's Letter to John Adams, August 22, 1813

Agreed.

I think saying a Christian nation implies we have a Christian government. Democracy or a representative government is perhaps the farthest thing from a Theocracy. Korah tried to vote in a theocracy and thousands died. The fact that we vote, means we, not God, is in charge. While I believe that we can influence our government's policies, the fact is Jesus is not King of America.

P.S. voting for church leaders seems off the mark, though that's how we do it in my denomination. If there is any place were democracy should be avoided like the plague, its in the Church. Nothing good can come from popularity contests among God's people.

[keck553]

You two can pick and choose a few scraps of writings from the federalist and anti-fedealist papers, propose some of them out of context, but the vast majority support the principles our constitution and bill of rights recognize, that is the moral laws found in Torah and Christian principles found in the Apostolic writings.

By the way, this country was not found exclusively on Thomas Jefferson's worldview.

Not saying that this is a theistic nation, but it's founding values are Biblically based.

I don't know how this is linked to the OP though. No nation, religious or otherwise has a history of embracing this type of sexual perversion.