Thorn in the flesh

[HoboTone]

And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness. Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christs sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.-2 Corinthians 12:7-10

,..................Interpretations......Go!

[Reynolds357]

And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness. Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christs sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.-2 Corinthians 12:7-10,..................Interpretations......Go!

Thorn in Flesh = angel of satan = demon

[jayne]

OK, you did ask for our interpretation!



I think that there are a bunch of namby-pamby Christians today who don't know enough scripture to fill a thimble and who don't trust God to even get them out of bed in the morning and who couldn't shoulder one-tenth of the burdens and responsibilities that the Apostle Paul did and whose "spiritual gifts" include moaning and groaning.

It's all "poor me - God doesn't like me - it's just not fair!!"

We could all take a lesson from Paul. His burden was great and he REJOICED that he GOT TO suffer for Christ's sake.

I haven't heard those words from anybody - myself first and foremost included.

What was his thorn in the flesh? I haven't the foggiest clue. I've heard everything from eye disorders to unsaved family members to depression.

But to me, it doesn't matter. What's matters is his response to the great and dreadful burden.

With that being said, I would be interested in what others had to say.

[Reynolds357]

OK, you did ask for our interpretation!



I think that there are a bunch of namby-pamby Christians today who don't know enough scripture to fill a thimble and who don't trust God to even get them out of bed in the morning and who couldn't shoulder one-tenth of the burdens and responsibilities that the Apostle Paul did and whose "spiritual gifts" include moaning and groaning.

It's all "poor me - God doesn't like me - it's just not fair!!"

We could all take a lesson from Paul. His burden was great and he REJOICED that he GOT TO suffer for Christ's sake.

I haven't heard those words from anybody - myself first and foremost included.

What was his thorn in the flesh? I haven't the foggiest clue. I've heard everything from eye disorders to unsaved family members to depression.

But to me, it doesn't matter. What's matters is his response to the great and dreadful burden.

With that being said, I would be interested in what others had to say.

The passage plainly tells you what it is. "Angelos of Satan." That would be a demonic spirit. It only get complicated if you try to make it that way.

[PJW]

I have seen others allude to eye problems, but I think it might be a speech impediment.
"For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible." (2 Cor 10:10)
"But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been thoroughly made manifest among you in all things." (2 Cor 11:6)
"Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the Gospel unto you at the first." (Gal 4:13)
"... Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." (2 Cor 12:9)
Paul would not be "glorying" in something a demon was doing.

[aftertheflood]

Paul never used the term "flesh" to describe anything other than the sinful nature. He also spoke of grace as being the power of God's righteousness in overcoming temptation and sin. My personal conjecture, educated that it may be, it is still conjecture is that there was an area of temptation that he struggled with. I think it was pride though another reasonable answer is lust. Given the tone of his writings when discussing either of these there is a vitriol that he is writing of something that he is at war with personally.

[HoboTone]

Paul never used the term "flesh" to describe anything other than the sinful nature. He also spoke of grace as being the power of God's righteousness in overcoming temptation and sin. My personal conjecture, educated that it may be, it is still conjecture is that there was an area of temptation that he struggled with. I think it was pride though another reasonable answer is lust. Given the tone of his writings when discussing either of these there is a vitriol that he is writing of something that he is at war with personally.

This is the conclusion I keep arriving at. I think Reynold's answer could come into play as well, since sometimes temptation is brought on through spiritual warfare.

[Beloved65]

13) Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
14) And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
15) Where is then the blessedness ye speak of? for I bear you record that if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
Galatians 4:13-16
I believe we find out here that it was Paul own weak eyesight that he consider his thorn in the flesh. For Paul refer to it again in Galatians 6:11.

[Scooby_Snacks]

Hello HoboTone,

I noticed that this subject has come up quite a few times, and why wouldn't it?

I believe that what Reynold's shared is true and will elaborate.
I believe a messenger of Satan is one that carries a messege, just as Paul carries the true Gospel messege of Christ, there were those in opposition of him that carried false messeges.
He could discern this same spirit over and over again when it was actively opposing him personally or an entire church body, through human vessels.

It was the messege of Christ IN him that the messenger was opposing, so he could take great joy and give glory to God that it was not about him, ever.
This continual persecution brought Glory to Christ and enabled Paul to remain in constant dependance on Him, to serve His good purpose.
IMO having a continual opponent to truth is super motivating.

When Paul was weak, the power of God flowed through him with greater intensity, not held back by his flesh.

I find it interesting also, that the side is one of the most tender areas of the body. I wonder what connection this might have to the spear thrust into Jesus Side, that the water mixed with blood flowed out of on the cross?

I wanted to add something to this:

In so many ways, I can see how a false messege being spread as truth could be grievous..because people have the freedom to choose, which messege they prefer, and often, the flesh is so thrilled to hear something that isn't true, while the spirit with His Spirit is battling it with all the way.
So heart breaking it could have been for Paul to watch as those once in the truth slipped away into obscure beliefs, further from Christ.
I pray He always keep us in His Truth, and correct us when we are slipping.
The loss of souls to enemies lies should always be painful to those who love Christ.

[HoboTone]

Hello HoboTone,

I noticed that this subject has come up quite a few times, and why wouldn't it?

I believe that what Reynold's shared is true and will elaborate.
I believe a messenger of Satan is one that carries a messege, just as Paul carries the true Gospel messege of Christ, there were those in opposition of him that carried false messeges.
He could discern this same spirit over and over again when it was actively opposing him personally or an entire church body, through human vessels.

It was the messege of Christ IN him that the messenger was opposing, so he could take great joy and give glory to God that it was not about him, ever.
This continual persecution brought Glory to Christ and enabled Paul to remain in constant dependance on Him, to serve His good purpose.
IMO having a continual opponent to truth is super motivating.

When Paul was weak, the power of God flowed through him with greater intensity, not held back by his flesh.

I find it interesting also, that the side is one of the most tender areas of the body. I wonder what connection this might have to the spear thrust into Jesus Side, that the water mixed with blood flowed out of on the cross?

I wanted to add something to this:

In so many ways, I can see how a false messege being spread as truth could be grievous..because people have the freedom to choose, which messege they prefer, and often, the flesh is so thrilled to hear something that isn't true, while the spirit with His Spirit is battling it with all the way.
So heart breaking it could have been for Paul to watch as those once in the truth slipped away into obscure beliefs, further from Christ.
I pray He always keep us in His Truth, and correct us when we are slipping.
The loss of souls to enemies lies should always be painful to those who love Christ.

This is very interesting, thank you for the input SS.

[ewq1938]

13) Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
14) And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
15) Where is then the blessedness ye speak of? for I bear you record that if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
Galatians 4:13-16
I believe we find out here that it was Paul own weak eyesight that he consider his thorn in the flesh. For Paul refer to it again in Galatians 6:11.

I agree it was one of his physical infirmities:

Gal 6:11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.

[HoboTone]

Geese, you'd figure when the scales fell off, he would have at least ended up with 20/20..

[Scooby_Snacks]

I decided to look further.
Paul had to have physical issues.
He probably had so many that he was in fairly constant chronic and often acute pain.

In Acts 14 he was stoned until they thought he was dead,but..lol...he wasn't.
The amount of physical punishment he received due to persecution is enough for me to agree that the physical as well as the spiritual, emotional and mental areas could have been touched by this messenger of satan.

Im not sure if I would use his failing eyesight alone as a fit with the word buffet:
to hit or beat, especially repeatedly: to strike against forcefully; batter: (See Synonyms at beat.) : to drive or force with or as if with repeated blows.
He was under continued harsh punishment.

I love how God's Glory shows through Paul's trials, how is faith remains in tact.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 8:38-39 ESV)

[nzyr]

I believe it was an injury that Paul received. Since it's called a thorn it was probably painful. He probably had it the rest of his life.

[svfox]

Paul seemed to have the spirituality down better than anyone. He called himself the chief of sinners.
So I don't think at this time anything spiritual could be the problem as Paul's faith was just to strong.

So it had to be something physical, but we are never told exactly what.