Times of the Gentiles

[quiet dove]

So how many were guilty?

As I think someone did say, we are all guilty. The fact is, all men fall short of the glory of God.(Romans 3:23). And God has given ample evidence of His existence(Romans 1:20)

Israel rejected her promised Messiah, and is guilty of doing so.
The Gentiles, though the promises were not made to them, were however, also included that the Messiah would be sent to them also.(Isa 49:6)

Jesus came to Israel, but there were Gentiles who were aware of the prophecies and Jesus had mercy on them because they believed, just as He has mercy upon those of Israel who believed. Though He made clear who He was sent to, He also made clear that God's mercy was extended and would bring Gentiles into the fold(Matthew 15:22-28)

We are all guilty, any who reject the promises of God, and His Redeemer, are guilty of doing so.

[Fenris]

As I think someone did say, we are all guilty.

Ah. Well, we are all guilty is not the same as they are all guilty.

But then...

Israel rejected her promised Messiah

You make "Israel" sound like a single entity. It is not. It is likely that 99% of the Jews alive in the first century never even heard of Jesus. Any rejection would have been passive.

[quiet dove]

Ah. Well, we are all guilty is not the same as they are all guilty.

But then...
You make "Israel" sound like a single entity. It is not. It is likely that 99% of the Jews alive in the first century never even heard of Jesus. Any rejection would have been passive.

In saying we are all guilty does not mean that Israel did not reject her promised Messiah. I also said the Gentiles were guilty too...."all fall short of the glory of God" ,and all are sinners, there fore, Jesus paying for sin includes "all"...be they Jew or Gentile. The Messiah was not promised directly to the Gentiles, as such, and when Jesus came, as the verses I posted, He made it clear He came to the sheep of Israel.

But the rest also does tell us that God extended His offer of mercy to the Gentiles, and since Jesus died also for the Gentiles, then the Gentiles are also guilty of sin that required being paid for.

The Romans, Gentiles, had their part in His death...but at the same time, how would things have been different if Israel had not rejected Him.

But we also know that both, Jew and Gentile, as individuals, can choose now.

Both are guilty of sin and that about sums it up since Jesus came to pay for sin...imho

I'm sorry if anything I said comes out differently because I am a Gentile and fully aware that I am a sinner and no better than anyone else...

[jeffweeder]

So how many were guilty?

They were all guilty.
Regardless of who played a more active role in getting him crucified, he was sent to atone for Sin of Mankind, and destroy the power death. This involves death and the shedding of blood of one unblemished. He was always going to be sacrificed, so he could cover us with his blood, the only means of being Eternally redeemed and restored to his immediate fellowship.
Risen from the realm of death removes all obsticles for us to repartake of the tree of life....the very fruits of the Spirit of God abiding within us.

[Vanderhoven7]

Ah. Well, we are all guilty is not the same as they are all guilty.

But then...
You make "Israel" sound like a single entity. It is not. It is likely that 99% of the Jews alive in the first century never even heard of Jesus. Any rejection would have been passive.

True, it's not like today where 99% have heard about Him.

[Vanderhoven7]

Any rejection would have been passive.

What about today? Would you classify the overwhelming Jewish rejection of Jesus as Messiah as passive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eAhM2IMfnA

[Fenris]

What about today? Would you classify the overwhelming Jewish rejection of Jesus as Messiah as passive?

No, but there's a huge difference between some guy performing miracles and some guy talking about some guy performing miracles.

[Vanderhoven7]

No, but there's a huge difference between some guy performing miracles and some guy talking about some guy performing miracles.

Yeah, but don't forget Fenris, some people can see the Red sea part and then be worshiping Baal weeks later. Anyone, Jew or Gentile, can resist the Holy Spirit with or without miracles. But blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.

[Fenris]

Yeah, but don't forget Fenris, some people can see the Red sea part and then be worshiping Baal weeks later.

Golden Calf, not Baal. And anyways...

Anyone, Jew or Gentile, can resist the Holy Spirit with or without miracles. But blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.

Oh, I believe. Just not the same thing as you.

[rejoice44]

It is likely that 99% of the Jews alive in the first century never even heard of Jesus. Any rejection would have been passive.

For that to be true the New Testament would have to be a fairytale.

[Fenris]

For that to be true the New Testament would have to be a fairytale.

Mmm, no. It's entirely possible that Jesus lectured to 80,000 people in the three years of his ministry. That would have been about 1% of the Jews alive at the time.

[rejoice44]

Mmm, no. It's entirely possible that Jesus lectured to 80,000 people in the three years of his ministry. That would have been about 1% of the Jews alive at the time.

Your previous statement.

“It is likely that 99% of the Jews alive in the first century never even heard of Jesus. Any rejection would have been passive.”

My statement. "For that to be true the New Testament would have to be a fairytale."

Your answer.

Mmm, no. It's entirely possible that Jesus lectured to 80,000 people in the three years of his ministry. That would have been about 1% of the Jews alive at the time.

You stated that 99% of the Jews in the first Century never heard of Jesus. You altered your answer from "heard of" to "heard him".

Acts 17:5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

Acts 19:40 For we are in danger to be called in question for this day's uproar, there being no cause whereby we may give an account of this concourse.

Acts 21:31 And as they went about to kill him, tidings came unto the chief captain of the band, that all Jerusalem was in an uproar.

Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Romans 11:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and thear words unto the ends of the world.

I could go on and list all the cities that are mentioned in the New Testament but I am sure you have read the New Testament. The ministry of Jesus was around and about Jerusalem. There are two man verses to attest to

Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that] rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

[Fenris]

YYou stated that 99% of the Jews in the first Century never heard of Jesus. You altered your answer from "heard of" to "heard him".

Oh I'm sure they all heard of him. They just put the TV on and flipped to their favorite cable news channel.

Really, dude. News traveled slow in the first century. And a majority of the world's Jews didn't even live in Israel at the time. Heck, let's say that 1% heard him directly and 10 times heard of him. That's still only 11% of the world's Jews. And for the ones who only heard of him, what would strongly differentiate him from other first-century messiah claimants?

I stand by my statement. In the first century, most Jewish rejection of Jesus was passive. You may not like it; you may disagree for theological reasons.

[rejoice44]

I stand by my statement. In the first century, most Jewish rejection of Jesus was passive. You may not like it; you may disagree for theological reasons.

And I stand by my statement that if 99% of the Jews in the first century never of Jesus, then the New Testament is a fairy tale.

The Jewish rejection of Jesus in the first century was the same as it is today. In order for a Jew to accept Jesus today he must be strong enough to accept rejection by his community.

[Fenris]

And I stand by my statement that if 99% of the Jews in the first century never of Jesus, then the New Testament is a fairy tale.

I still don't see how. Jesus and his apostles could have spoken to lots and lots of people and that would still leave millions upon millions who never heard of him.

The Jewish rejection of Jesus in the first century was the same as it is today. In order for a Jew to accept Jesus today he must be strong enough to accept rejection by his community.

And that's the only thing holding a Jew back? It's impossible that Jews think their understanding of the bible is correct?