Is my fiancee right to demand I give up my hobbies, interests and who I am? (From CF

[NewInHim]

This is the most sound advice on this thread, imho ( even though he told you to run a little later )

This thread has been troubling me, so I spent some time in prayer earlier, to help me know how to respond. The Lord reminded me, that I do not know your fiancée, all I have is what you've told me here. Now I'm not saying that you haven't spoken the truth or anything, but we must remember that this is only one side of the story. I can only see this story from one angle, and so I cannot clearly see what's going on. It's easy for us to respond to your situation based on our own relational experiences, but none of our relationships are your relationship. I don't know your past, I don't know hers. I don't know what causes her to be the person she is, nor you the person you are. I don't know how much she loves you, or how much you love her, words just don't express these things well. You said her relationship with God is good, and I praise God. I hear that yours is not so good, well a godly married is based on both parties having a close relationship with God. That should be some thing you spend time working on!

Basically. my friend, we're strangers to you, so please take what is said with that in mind. Asses this situation yourself, pray about it. Seriously, seek God, for He knows if she is the one for you. She might have to learn things, and grow more into the person God created her to be. You might have to do the same, whatever the case, don't through 8 years away, on the advice of strangers. She is hurt, and so are you, there needs to be a period of silence/separation, where you both can heal and pray, apart from one another. Let the Lord lead you, and her, and if it be His will, this difficult time, will soon become a thing of the past. If you both shouldn't be together, I'm sure the Lord will make that clear, to both of you. Just my humble opinion.

Praying for you both

This is an excellent post. I hope he will follow your advice.

[Reynolds357]

Hmmm well she does seem to get upset whenever I spend time doing anything that isn't for either her, work or study. If I do, even if it's only for 20 minutes she'll ask why I didn't spend that time doing something nice for her instead.

Does she have a point though? If I love her shouldn't I be willing to give up anything for her?

Our relationships with God? Hers is fantastic. I really admire her for it. Mine, not the best. My faith in him is no problem. I think I'm just too self-involved.

Man, if it is this bad and you are not married yet; you probably dont want to get married.
I love my wife, but there is no way that I could spend every free second of my life on her.

[scottyscotts]

I can’t handle this. I can’t handle how much I’ve hurt her. She is just completely devastated. I can’t believe I’ve done that to her. I am just total scum. I love her so much. She is everything to me. How could I hurt her like that? I hate this. All I want to do is wrap her up in my arms and make it all better. I just can’t handle her pain.

Was I right to say those things to her? Was I right to tell her what was making me unhappy? Please tell me honestly. I need to know. And was her reaction to what I said justified? Or completely over the top?

Either way, I’ve wussed out. I grew a pair last night and now they’re gone. I can’t do this to her any more. I can’t stand to see her hurt. I love her too much and it just kills me. Maybe she is manipulative but I do love her, and this pain she is feeling is too much. I just can’t keep doing this to her. I’m back pedalling on everything. I’m apologising as much as I can and saying that I didn’t mean the things I said last night. I’m telling her I was a huge idiot. I know I’m a complete wuss for doing this but I don’t care. I can’t stand to see her hurt.

[Athanasius]

I can’t handle this. I can’t handle how much I’ve hurt her. She is just completely devastated. I can’t believe I’ve done that to her. I am just total scum. I love her so much. She is everything to me. How could I hurt her like that? I hate this. All I want to do is wrap her up in my arms and make it all better. I just can’t handle her pain.

Was I right to say those things to her? Was I right to tell her what was making me unhappy? Please tell me honestly. I need to know. And was her reaction to what I said justified? Or completely over the top?

Either way, I’ve wussed out. I grew a pair last night and now they’re gone. I can’t do this to her any more. I can’t stand to see her hurt. I love her too much and it just kills me. Maybe she is manipulative but I do love her, and this pain she is feeling is too much. I just can’t keep doing this to her. I’m back pedalling on everything. I’m apologising as much as I can and saying that I didn’t mean the things I said last night. I’m telling her I was a huge idiot. I know I’m a complete wuss for doing this but I don’t care. I can’t stand to see her hurt.

So now you're lying to her to make her feel better? What kind of relationship is that?

[HoboTone]

Maybe she is manipulative but I do love her, and this pain she is feeling is too much. I just can’t keep doing this to her. I’m back pedalling on everything. I’m apologising as much as I can and saying that I didn’t mean the things I said last night. I’m telling her I was a huge idiot. I know I’m a complete wuss for doing this but I don’t care. I can’t stand to see her hurt.

Brother, this is a recipe for disaster. I suggest a weekend fishing trip.

[scottyscotts]

I am praying for your fiancée, she's obviously devastated. She may be what folks are saying, and be completely manipulating, but she herself might not be aware of it. It may be something she's done from a young child, and she no longer has control over it. You have told her things, that she needs time to digest. To see yourself as one person, then be told that people see you differently, is a huge thing to accept. You need to give her time, don't keep dragging this out, it will only hurt you both more. Instead, give her some space, let some time pass. She knows you love her, so the door is still open for any future conversations.

blessings to you

Thanks a lot. I’ve been praying for her too. I just feel like total scum for doing that to her. I hate this all so much.

She is having a tantrum.

Walk away and let her have it.

Tell her you'll talk when she can act like a rational, adult person. But not until then.

This is where you gotta be rational, reasonable, calm and peaceful. Because she's being a lot more calculative than she is letting on. Manipulative people having tantrums always are. It'll just escalate even further if you get all emotional about it. Be the adult. K?

Geez, I can’t be the adult. I’m being a complete wuss about this now. I can’t handle seeing her that hurt. I need to do whatever I can to stop her hurting. I’m back-pedalling on everything I said. Maybe that’s completely wrong but I can’t handle seeing her this hurt.

Dude seriously. Be an adult and make the call. Why are you subjecting yourself this way to this abuse?

Because I love her. I can’t handle seeing her in that much pain.

P.S. If she starts talking about suicide, call 9-1-1 immediately or take her to the nearest hospital if you think she's becoming emotionally unstable. She's either faking it, in which case you'd be calling her bluff and she'll stop (hopefully), or she's genually got severe emotional/mental issues, in which case you want her to get professional attention ASAP.

I’ve never heard her talk like that before so it was really disturbing. But I know she won’t actually do anything to hurt herself. But if I ever think she might, I’ll do everything in my power to help her.

Possibly, but not necessarily. There have been two times in the last several years when I have been so distraught that I have thrown up. I have an active gag reflex, and sobbing produces a lot of saliva and phlegm that can trigger it. So it may be a manipulative device for some people, but it can be a genuine reaction.

Absolutely, I totally agree. I felt like I could throw up last night. I was actually talking about her saying she wanted to die.

I am married to an introvert, and he NEEDS some time to unwind and some quiet time to himself to peruse quiet, solitary activities. It's part of who he is, and I have had to come to understand that over time and not take it personally. In fact, one way I show my husband love is by giving him the time to do that. Those times don't come that frequently, because he works, is an elder in our church, we own a home, and we have 2 young children. So he has a lot of responsibility and demands on his time. But I try my best to make it happen when possible. He appreciates it and it has IMPROVED our marriage.

Maybe I’ve been too demanding about having time to myself? I mean, married life isn’t about just doing whatever you want. There will always be all sorts of jobs that need to be done, and so is she being that unreasonable to want to spend any spare moments with me? And besides, she actually said she would be happy for me to have time to myself. She just wanted me to prove to her that I was willing to give up all of my hobbies for her. To show that she comes before them. I failed at that big time.

I would highly recommend the following two books about relationships: "Love and Respect" and "the 5 Love Languages". I think both apply to your situations and could teach both of you some better ways top relate to one another.

You have invested a lot time in this relationship, and I would think very long and hard before abandoning it. It can be worked through.

Thanks for the recommendations. We both had a look at that Love and Respect book and read about what it’s about. We both disliked what it talked about. The 5 Love Languages book, I was talking to her about the main principals of is a couple of weeks ago, and the fact that I actually thought there was some truth in it really hurt my fiancée. I had to tell her that I actually don’t believe any of it now. It totally freaked her out. Thanks for the recommendations though.

Yeah, I think it can all be worked through too, and I want to do that so bad. It’s up to her though. She is so unbelievably hurt I don’t know if she can.

This thread has been troubling me, so I spent some time in prayer earlier, to help me know how to respond. The Lord reminded me, that I do not know your fiancée, all I have is what you've told me here. Now I'm not saying that you haven't spoken the truth or anything, but we must remember that this is only one side of the story. I can only see this story from one angle, and so I cannot clearly see what's going on. It's easy for us to respond to your situation based on our own relational experiences, but none of our relationships are your relationship. I don't know your past, I don't know hers. I don't know what causes her to be the person she is, nor you the person you are. I don't know how much she loves you, or how much you love her, words just don't express these things well.

Absolutely. I totally agree. It’s something that’s really been bothering me in here, that I haven’t been able to get a balanced view across to you. If I’m wrong about everything, I want to know it. I want you all to have all the information, not just my opinions. That’s why I’ve posted talking about how amazing she’s been to me. She reminded me of that and I felt it needed to be said to give a more accurate picture.

Basically. my friend, we're strangers to you, so please take what is said with that in mind. Asses this situation yourself, pray about it. Seriously, seek God, for He knows if she is the one for you. She might have to learn things, and grow more into the person God created her to be. You might have to do the same, whatever the case, don't through 8 years away, on the advice of strangers. She is hurt, and so are you, there needs to be a period of silence/separation, where you both can heal and pray, apart from one another. Let the Lord lead you, and her, and if it be His will, this difficult time, will soon become a thing of the past. If you both shouldn't be together, I'm sure the Lord will make that clear, to both of you. Just my humble opinion.

Praying for you both

Thanks a lot. I’ll be praying about this. I trust God in whatever he thinks. I just hope and pray that what he wants can be known by me.

That's just not what marriage is, I hate to break it to you. When my husband was courting me before we were married, we were mad crazy in love. People told us that stage in the relationship would pass and I was vehement that it would not. Not to US. Maybe everyone else, but we had something special. Well it did pass, and when the honeymoon stage was over I was devastated. I thought we couldn't have a marriage or a relationship without those intense, giddy feelings. But you know what my husband said? He told me he thought our actual relationship was much better than it had ever been before. After some reflection I realized he was right, and I was so relived. We were more comfortable with each other, we knew each other better, we were better friends and better able to anticipate each-other's needs. We were less sensitive, and we weren't hurting one-another's feelings all the time. We laugh and we talk and we enjoy one-another's company and we put each other first (most of the time). It's gotten richer and deeper. Less passionate. More real. That walking on eggshells you described just should NOT BE. If your fiancee wants that passionate together 24/7 kind of relationship with a human man for the rest of her life, she's going to keep having to get involved in a new relationship every several years. And she's going to miss out on the closeness and the genuine love of a deep relationship that is built on so much more than infatuation and passionate emotions.

Yeah, maybe you’re right about that. It certainly doesn’t seem right, what she wants. Who knows, maybe we can work through that.

Man, if it is this bad and you are not married yet; you probably dont want to get married.
I love my wife, but there is no way that I could spend every free second of my life on her.

Yeah, but my fiancée admitted that she would happily let me have time to myself. She just wanted me to prove to her that she came before all my hobbies etc.

[Reynolds357]

Yeah, but my fiancée admitted that she would happily let me have time to myself. She just wanted me to prove to her that she came before all my hobbies etc.

You really believe that?

[scottyscotts]

Well as dumb as I may have been, my back-pedalling may have inadvertently helped the situation. I’ve just been talking to her and hearing about what hurt her so much. It hurt her that I think she doesn’t care about how I feel. She said she’s based her life around caring how people feel, so for me to say that was so painful to hear. And she’s right, she’s an incredibly caring person, and she cares for me so much. The reason I feel like she doesn’t care about how I feel is because I never tell her how I feel! Duh! How can she care if I’m hurt or upset if I never tell her? I’m sure she’d care if I told her. I’ve said all that to her and that this is clearly my fault for never telling her how I feel about things.

She was also upset about the fact that I said she demands things from her. She said she just asks for things so that she feels loved. I told her that I made a really bad choice of words, and that I’ve never thought she demands anything off me. I said that I want to do nice things for her because I love her, not because I’ve been asked to. I want her to know that I’ve decided to do those things myself, and that I’m not just doing them because she asked me to.

Anyway, this may be our way through it. Here’s hoping!

[Athanasius]

Well as dumb as I may have been, my back-pedalling may have inadvertently helped the situation. I’ve just been talking to her and hearing about what hurt her so much. It hurt her that I think she doesn’t care about how I feel. She said she’s based her life around caring how people feel, so for me to say that was so painful to hear. And she’s right, she’s an incredibly caring person, and she cares for me so much. The reason I feel like she doesn’t care about how I feel is because I never tell her how I feel! Duh! How can she care if I’m hurt or upset if I never tell her? I’m sure she’d care if I told her. I’ve said all that to her and that this is clearly my fault for never telling her how I feel about things.

She was also upset about the fact that I said she demands things from her. She said she just asks for things so that she feels loved. I told her that I made a really bad choice of words, and that I’ve never thought she demands anything off me. I said that I want to do nice things for her because I love her, not because I’ve been asked to. I want her to know that I’ve decided to do those things myself, and that I’m not just doing them because she asked me to.

Anyway, this may be our way through it. Here’s hoping!

Are you going to tell her the truth? That you did mean what you said?

[scottyscotts]

Are you going to tell her the truth? That you did mean what you said?

Well I pretty much did. I told her the parts that I did mean, and the parts that I was wrong about.

[Athanasius]

Well I pretty much did. I told her the parts that I did mean, and the parts that I was wrong about.

I'm not following: what were you wrong about?

[Vhayes]

Well as dumb as I may have been, my back-pedalling may have inadvertently helped the situation. I’ve just been talking to her and hearing about what hurt her so much. It hurt her that I think she doesn’t care about how I feel. She said she’s based her life around caring how people feel, so for me to say that was so painful to hear. And she’s right, she’s an incredibly caring person, and she cares for me so much. The reason I feel like she doesn’t care about how I feel is because I never tell her how I feel! Duh! How can she care if I’m hurt or upset if I never tell her? I’m sure she’d care if I told her. I’ve said all that to her and that this is clearly my fault for never telling her how I feel about things.

She was also upset about the fact that I said she demands things from her. She said she just asks for things so that she feels loved. I told her that I made a really bad choice of words, and that I’ve never thought she demands anything off me. I said that I want to do nice things for her because I love her, not because I’ve been asked to. I want her to know that I’ve decided to do those things myself, and that I’m not just doing them because she asked me to.

Anyway, this may be our way through it. Here’s hoping!

Here's a novel thought - tell her how hurt you were that she wants you to dedicate every moment of the day to her - step back and see how quickly the focus goes to:
"I'm hurt that you would think that..."

While I cannot know what is in her heart and mind because I do not know her, I will tell you that she sounds like a classic narcissist. Run. Run fast, far and hard.

If the conversation is always about her and her needs, you are setting yourself up for major issues.

If your plans always revolve around what she wants, prepare for a lifetime of chick flicks and quiche.

Read up a bit on narcissism and see if she fits the bill. If she does, you cannot fix it.

[Indueseason]

Well as dumb as I may have been, my back-pedalling may have inadvertently helped the situation. I’ve just been talking to her and hearing about what hurt her so much. It hurt her that I think she doesn’t care about how I feel. She said she’s based her life around caring how people feel, so for me to say that was so painful to hear. And she’s right, she’s an incredibly caring person, and she cares for me so much. The reason I feel like she doesn’t care about how I feel is because I never tell her how I feel! Duh! How can she care if I’m hurt or upset if I never tell her? I’m sure she’d care if I told her. I’ve said all that to her and that this is clearly my fault for never telling her how I feel about things.

She was also upset about the fact that I said she demands things from her. She said she just asks for things so that she feels loved. I told her that I made a really bad choice of words, and that I’ve never thought she demands anything off me. I said that I want to do nice things for her because I love her, not because I’ve been asked to. I want her to know that I’ve decided to do those things myself, and that I’m not just doing them because she asked me to.

Anyway, this may be our way through it. Here’s hoping!

It sounds like honesty and communication have been the problem. All this heartache was necessary, because she needed to know who you really are. As you said, how can she know how you feel, when you don't communicate these things? Being honest might hurt both of you, but it's the basis of an adult relationship. Your both still young, and your both on a huge learning curve. You two need to make a pack to keep honest communication open.Lay all your cards on the table( which you seem to be doing now),and tread slowly, because the trust needs to be built up again. You both need to get to know each other again.

I hear love in all your posts, and you've said enough positive things about her, to make me think she's really a nice person.She might be a bit messed up, but the Lord can heal and restore whatever needs to be adapted. Don't forget God in all this! If I had to share what I was like at her/your age, I'd be 100 times more messed up, and more horrible than how you've described your fiancee! God can do great things, and He can heal you both, and make this a life time relationship.Pray together,ask God to help you both to become the people you need to be.

prayers and blessings to you both

[tango]

Hmmm well she does seem to get upset whenever I spend time doing anything that isn't for either her, work or study. If I do, even if it's only for 20 minutes she'll ask why I didn't spend that time doing something nice for her instead.

Does she have a point though? If I love her shouldn't I be willing to give up anything for her?

Our relationships with God? Hers is fantastic. I really admire her for it. Mine, not the best. My faith in him is no problem. I think I'm just too self-involved.

This rings so many warning bells for me it's just not funny.

I love my wife to bits but couldn't imagine spending every single waking moment with her and never having any time to call my own. I need time away from her, I need time with male friends, I need time to do my own thing. At the same time she needs time away from me, she needs time with female friends, she needs time to do her own thing.

If there's nothing the two of you enjoy doing together you'll have problems down the line. If neither of you spends any time away from the other the relationship will be stifling.

I'm puzzled at how you've apparently been together for so many years without her getting to know you at all. I'm a keen cyclist, I'm a keen photographer, and these are things I discuss with strangers. It's natural (for me at least) when talking to someone for the first time to discuss things we do for work, for fun, and the like. I can't imagine someone knowing me for years and not knowing I like to cycle, or that I like to take photographs.

The approach of expecting you to give up absolutely everything so you can spend every waking moment with her sounds like a power trip to me. She might have jealousy issues, she might have separation issues, she might have insecurity issues. Whatever the issues they need to be resolved before you commit the rest of your life to her or you'll end up desperately unhappy. If you're held up in traffic on your way home from work one evening is she going to start getting suspicious?

As others have already said pre-marriage classes are a good thing. I'm reluctant to call it counselling simply because as soon as that C-word is mentioned most people respond defensively. I remember when my wife and I went to pre-marriage sessions arranged by the vicar who married us - we were encouraged to talk about issues like children, money, future plans etc. The idea is to address issues that might arise within our marriage before they happened - some men feel threatened if their wife earns more than they do, there's potential for conflict if one wants children and the other doesn't, if there are different expectations regarding who will work, who will do household chores etc.

[tango]

Well as dumb as I may have been, my back-pedalling may have inadvertently helped the situation. I’ve just been talking to her and hearing about what hurt her so much. It hurt her that I think she doesn’t care about how I feel. She said she’s based her life around caring how people feel, so for me to say that was so painful to hear. And she’s right, she’s an incredibly caring person, and she cares for me so much. The reason I feel like she doesn’t care about how I feel is because I never tell her how I feel! Duh! How can she care if I’m hurt or upset if I never tell her? I’m sure she’d care if I told her. I’ve said all that to her and that this is clearly my fault for never telling her how I feel about things.

She was also upset about the fact that I said she demands things from her. She said she just asks for things so that she feels loved. I told her that I made a really bad choice of words, and that I’ve never thought she demands anything off me. I said that I want to do nice things for her because I love her, not because I’ve been asked to. I want her to know that I’ve decided to do those things myself, and that I’m not just doing them because she asked me to.

Anyway, this may be our way through it. Here’s hoping!

Maybe I’ve been too demanding about having time to myself? I mean, married life isn’t about just doing whatever you want. There will always be all sorts of jobs that need to be done, and so is she being that unreasonable to want to spend any spare moments with me? And besides, she actually said she would be happy for me to have time to myself. She just wanted me to prove to her that I was willing to give up all of my hobbies for her. To show that she comes before them. I failed at that big time.

From this it's really hard to know what's going on. To be honest my gut instinct is that she's being manipulative.

Married life isn't all about doing whatever you want, you have to consider the other person. In the same way she has to consider you and your needs. That means some things that you do because they have to be done (mowing the lawn, washing the dishes etc), some things you do together because they are important to the other, some things you do together because you both enjoy them, and some things you do by yourselves. If you're always doing the things you want and ignoring her then you'll have problems. If you're never doing the things you want then you'll have problems.

How you spend "spare moments" will depend on how many of them you have. For many years I worked 10-12 hour days with an hour or more commuting each way, with the result that I had very little time to call my own. At the time my wife wasn't working at all, so she dealt with domestic chores while I was at work. Had she expected to do her own thing all day and then have me do the cleaning and washing dishes when I got home things wouldn't have worked. At the same time although I had very little time to call my own it was important to balance spending time with her and spending time doing the things I wanted.

Be careful with the "she's so hurt that..." lines. If she's hurt by something like this then that feeling of hurt should pass and your relationship should strengthen. If she's constantly "so hurt that..." then chances are you've got yourself someone who is controlling and manipulative.

Asking you to prove something to her isn't a good sign. You refusing to give up every single hobby for her is an unreasonable request, and saying that you failed because you weren't willing to prove yourself in that regard suggests to me that you're dangerously close to buying in to her position that it's your job to provide anything and everything she wants while at the same time having no requirements of your own.

My advice - tread very carefully with this one and don't be in any rush to get married. If my reading of the situation is wrong you can always marry her later, if my reading is right you may not want to marry her at all. Either way the outcome you need is the right one, not a "work through this so we can stay together whatever it takes" approach. If you and she aren't suited to each other it's better than you separate now rather than get married and spend a lifetime regretting it.