The Six Commandments?

[Vhayes]

Will someone PLEASE provide me with a link to the story about the teacher bowing her head and getting in trouble with the school system?

I seriously cannot find it.

[Vhayes]

That's because it isn't only happening here.....

But this thread is a discussion about church and state separation in the United States and the laws that govern that separation. What happens in Great Britain has no bearing on how we interpret our laws.

[Vhayes]

And in the overall scheme of things... never mind.

Christians in America are being persecuted. We are under the yoke of a grave oppression and must fight every day to be allowed to pray.

The Founding Father's all walked on water and will be next to Jesus when we go home, so we can finally meet them.

Those same Founding Father's wanted the government to stay out of church affairs but they never, ever meant that the church should stay out of government affairs. And if they could, they would appear to us today to tell us to vote only for men (and I mean men only) who stand proud and tall for the Lord.

We should close our borders and systematically remove or deport any and all Muslims. If they were born here, we should send them to Cuba and let Castro deal with them.

We'll keep the Jews, at least for a while.

Yes. That's the ticket!!

(You know... I think I could write for Pamela Geller or maybe even Wing Nut Daily. WooHoo!!)

[awestruckchild]

I just don't understand how it does not come across as an abuse of rights to anyone when children, freely, and on their own free time in an elementary school, are told they are breaking the law when they bow their heads and pray for a schoolmate who had a terrible family tragedy, and are then subjected to police interrogation, and are called to the principals office and interrogated.
It is not against the law for them to exercise their right to freedom of religion and it's expression, so why are they told it IS against the law?

Time and again, these court cases come back in favor of the students' right to free expression of their religion and beliefs, and time and again, it is challenged by the schools, the teachers, the principals, and administrators. These are educated people. So why do they keep doing it? They aren't ignorant of the law at this point. It has become too prominent to claim ignorance. There are now too many cases where it has been ruled that as long as it is student initiated and student led, they are free to express, be it a cross around their neck, a bible on their lunchbreak, or a tshirt with a religious sentiment or symbol.

And yes, V, I still agree that sometimes people just want to look pious.

[awestruckchild]

And if a case outside of the U.S, has nothing to do with the OP, then neither does a discussion of our borders!

[Vhayes]

I just don't understand how it does not come across as an abuse of rights to anyone when children, freely, and on their own free time in an elementary school, are told they are breaking the law when they bow their heads and pray for a schoolmate who had a terrible family tragedy, and are then subjected to police interrogation, and are called to the principals office and interrogated.
It is not against the law for them to exercise their right to freedom of religion and it's expression, so why are they told it IS against the law?

Time and again, these court cases come back in favor of the students' right to free expression of their religion and beliefs, and time and again, it is challenged by the schools, the teachers, the principals, and administrators. These are educated people. So why do they keep doing it? They aren't ignorant of the law at this point. It has become too prominent to claim ignorance. There are now too many cases where it has been ruled that as long as it is student initiated and student led, they are free to express, be it a cross around their neck, a bible on their lunchbreak, or a tshirt with a religious sentiment or symbol.

And yes, V, I still agree that sometimes people just want to look pious.

The case in Kentucky where the children were praying for a school mates mother? I read the story and there HAS to be something else that happened. The children said they were praying. The school says they were praying and they were told it was about time for class to start. And the police were called? It doesn't add up. WHY would anyone call the police?

The law DOES stand for the rights of the children - for anyone that matter who is within their rights.

There ARE teachers and principals and administrators who are jerks, pure and simple. There are school personnel who are fearful of the school district being sued. There are school personnel who don't know the law and maybe do not want to know the law - it's easier to make a blanket, "You can't do that" statement. There are all sorts of reasons why.

But in the end, these cases are very, very rare.

[awestruckchild]

The case in Kentucky where the children were praying for a school mates mother? I read the story and there HAS to be something else that happened. The children said they were praying. The school says they were praying and they were told it was about time for class to start. And the police were called? It doesn't add up. WHY would anyone call the police?

The law DOES stand for the rights of the children - for anyone that matter who is within their rights.

There ARE teachers and principals and administrators who are jerks, pure and simple. There are school personnel who are fearful of the school district being sued. There are school personnel who don't know the law and maybe do not want to know the law - it's easier to make a blanket, "You can't do that" statement. There are all sorts of reasons why.

But in the end, these cases are very, very rare.

Well, the police WERE called, and no, it did not happen that they were being allowed to pray and then they were warned their time was up because classes would begin. They were harassed when they BEGAN to pray, and it wasn't the first time. They had prayed before classes began for the day, in the parking lot, and were already told they could not pray on school grounds. The news footage is very telling. The students were interviewed and were respectful in the interviews, with one student saying: I know they are our elders, but that was not right to tell us we were not allowed to pray for our friend, or to call the police.
There are too many stories for them ALL to be explained away. Most often, a letter from the ACLJ or ACLU brings the school into line with the law, but there are far too many that actually go through the entire court process and a ruling before administrators will comply.
As for whether or not one considers the cases to be very rare, at any given time, there are quite a few of these cases on the court dockets, though I have only gone back as far as 1990. Over the course of more than 20 years, this should not still be ongoing and should be settled in school policies. We are not THAT large of a country and do not have THAT many schools that it doesn't at some point have to become apparent that it is being willfully done.

[Warrioroftheword]

We cant actually have Christianity in schools. Let's make everyone act like Christians, but not be Christians.......that's a great idea!

The next big thing will be Chrislum..<---scary stuff from a biblical standpoint

Everybody just accept everybody, the world is just turning into a crap hole over this politically correct crap. It's ok to openly bash Jews and Christians but a no no for Muslims and homosexuals. What this world is turning into so quickly disgusts me, the lord cant take me from this place soon enough.

[awestruckchild]

Cool. Did you save the link? I'd like to see the story again.

Well of course I didn't. Save a link?
Old ladies don't know how to do that!
And there are so many different cases that I get them pretty jumbled in my head.
The only one that is sticking at present is a woman teacher from New York named Anita who taught special needs kids who has nerve damage in her hands. She would pray before children entered class and after they left, and from what I recall, a new principal caught her doing this and began harassing her and making snide remarks about her faith. She led a prayer group (after school, of course). He would joke that he knew they were praying for a demon to leave him. Finally, she was accused of putting her hands on a student (Severely nerve damaged hands) and was fired. She was interviewed and said she knows the truth will come out one day that she did no such thing as ever put her hands on one of her children. (I believe when he caught her praying privately that it said he told her she was not allowed to pray in his school.) Of note to me was how she wasn't officially found guilty of forcing religion on anyone but was accused of physical abuse, and the story that ran through my head was the woman in the bible accusing the godly man of rape. It seemed to be the same tactic - when you can't find a reason, make one up and have the person jailed. The other thing that ran through my head was: (my paraphrase) truth has stumbled in the streets and justice is nowhere to be found.

The only other one sticking is the math teacher in Ohio who was fired for refusing to remove a bible from either his desk drawer or the top of his desk, which he read on free time.

The teacher (Ohio also, I think) bowing was something to do with a student initiated and led prayer where he said he bowed his head to show...respect for their prayer, I believe. In which case, almost the entire house and senate should probably be fired...I mean, how dare a teacher show respect to his students...or that there be any sense of decorum in the house or senate...

[awestruckchild]

The next big thing will be Chrislum..<---scary stuff from a biblical standpoint

Everybody just accept everybody, the world is just turning into a crap hole over this politically correct crap. It's ok to openly bash Jews and Christians but a no no for Muslims and homosexuals. What this world is turning into so quickly disgusts me, the lord cant take me from this place soon enough.

There is a verse, maybe relevant...
Do not let them influence you. YOU must influence THEM.

[Sojourner55]

And in the overall scheme of things... never mind.

Christians in America are being persecuted. We are under the yoke of a grave oppression and must fight every day to be allowed to pray.

The Founding Father's all walked on water and will be next to Jesus when we go home, so we can finally meet them.

Those same Founding Father's wanted the government to stay out of church affairs but they never, ever meant that the church should stay out of government affairs. And if they could, they would appear to us today to tell us to vote only for men (and I mean men only) who stand proud and tall for the Lord.

We should close our borders and systematically remove or deport any and all Muslims. If they were born here, we should send them to Cuba and let Castro deal with them.

We'll keep the Jews, at least for a while.

Yes. That's the ticket!!

(You know... I think I could write for Pamela Geller or maybe even Wing Nut Daily. WooHoo!!)

Wow. Tell you what. If you want to get silly, and do some writing, here's an idea: why not edit the Bible to make it embrace diversity and be more politically correct? We can modify a few passages, like this:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit--except where prohibited by law.

And then he told them, "Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone--Except for those who practice a different religion, and might be offended.

Personally, I'm with Peter and the Apostles:
"Didn't we tell you never again to teach in this man's name?" he demanded. "Instead, you have filled all Jerusalem with your teaching about him, and you want to make us responsible for his death!"
But Peter and the apostles replied, "We must obey God rather than any human authority." (Acts 5:28-29)

[Vhayes]

And then he told them, "Go into all the world and preach the Good News to everyone--Except for those who practice a different religion, and might be offended.

I would say that's a complete misrepresentation of what I believe.

If you actually believe that is what I am advocating then either I can't write or you can't read.

Personally, I'm with Jesus.

[Sojourner55]

I would say that's a complete misrepresentation of what I believe.

If you actually believe that is what I am advocating then either I can't write or you can't read.

Personally, I'm with Jesus.

I didn't say that's what you believe. Your rhetoric turned silly, so I just took it to the next level. But I think we need to have the same attitude as the Apostles: preach the Gospel as God leads, regardless of civil ordinance or the authority of human government. You agree with that, right?

[Vhayes]

I didn't say that's what you believe. Your rhetoric turned silly, so I just took it to the next level.

Ok - then I completely misread this part:

Wow. Tell you what. If you want to get silly, and do some writing, here's an idea: why not edit the Bible to make it embrace diversity and be more politically correct? We can modify a few passages, like this:

Sorry I didn't understand that YOU were being silly.

But I think we need to have the same attitude as the Apostles: preach the Gospel as God leads, regardless of civil ordinance or the authority of human government. You agree with that, right?

Sure. And when you do that, be prepared for the consequences of whatever land you happen to be in at the time.

[keck553]

Ok - then I completely misread this part:

Sorry I didn't understand that YOU were being silly.


Sure. And when you do that, be prepared for the consequences of whatever land you happen to be in at the time.

Hence this thread. These are some of the consequences. Except today some Christians support the advocates of those consequences. Wolves among the sheep I suppose.