Discerning of spirits/or testing/trying?

[Beloved65]

So I was just curious how many think the gift of discerning of spirits (I Corithians 12:10; I John 4:1-2) is so needed in the church today?

[Traveler]

True Prophecy / False Prophecy The receiving of a prophecy is by nature a supernatural experience. But a supernatural experience in itself does not mean it is of God. The Buddhists have their prophets who receive prophecies that encourage the path to the Buddhist enlightenment. The Hindus have their prophets that provide the encouragement for the development of ones Karma and soul. The Muslims have their prophets that encourage the Jehad and demolition of the infidels. The witches and wiccans have their prophets that provide access to their spirit guides. The pagans have their high priests and prophets that commune and pass on instructions from their respective god pantheons. Be it Zeus or Jupiter or Thor etc. Then you just have the spirit mediums and fortunetellers that do the same thing with familiar spirits that pose as departed loved ones or whatever. However when it comes to Christianity or Judaism things get a little more complicated. The demonic entities are no longer acting in defence and encouragement of a particular worldly faith but are in an attack stance so as to corrupt and subvert a covenant faith in such a way as to produce an alternative to the true that can be used to deceive the saints and draw them into an alternative faith that looks like the biblically inspired covenant faith but is promoting a different God and a different Jesus. Yes it uses all the right terminology and is steeped in hyper religiosity but does not lead into a real salvation or a real reconciliation with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The writers of the New Testament had already come into contact with this deception and they gave a name to it, The Spirit of the Antichrist.

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. G500 ατιριστος antichristos an-tee'-khris-tos From G473 and G5547; an opponent of the Messiah: - antichrist.

Basically the same deceiving demons that had come against the Old Covenant and corrupted Judaism and had gained control over the pharisees, where now starting to do the same thing with the way or the early church comprising Christianity of the New Covenant. Just as the priest of the second temple had been so corrupted in their understanding and practices, to the point where Jesus referred to them as complete hypocrites, so the demons were trying to do the same thing with the early church and corrupt their doctrine as well.

Luk 11:39 And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. Luk 11:40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also? Luk 11:41 But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you. Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Luk 11:43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets. Luk 11:44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.

Well this of course raises the question of what is the difference between the true prophecy and the false prophecy if both are supernatural in origin. Well the answer lies in who it is that is giving the prophetic word. From the Christian perspective the True prophecy comes from the kingdom of God and the false comes from the kingdom of Satan. Demons are quite happy to be very religious and are in fact the deities behind all the worlds Pagan and other alternative religions. But there remains only one real God and that is the one that established the covenant faiths as found in the scriptures as in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He has sent his only Begotten Son Jesus to redeem us at Calvary and set him up as the King over all of the creation.

Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

So the next question is just how do we establish that the prophecies we are receiving are actually coming from the Kingdom of God and not an alternative source. The writers of the New Testament faced this question as well and left us instructions on how to do this. The first is to test the spirit that is giving the prophecy directly as in when the spirit starts to deliver the prophecy and the other is to judge the fruits produced or intended to be produced by that prophecy as compared to the scriptures themselves. Are they in line with the Great Commission given to the Saints to accomplish while awaiting our Lord Jesus return.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Now lets look at the Mechanics behind that instruction. A lot of saints disregard this because they cannot see how asking a deceiving spirit to confess that Jesus has come in the flesh is going to force them to reveal themselves. But the process involved is far simpler than it would appear and this is not the only question available either. A false spirit of prophecy is here to deliver a deception. When you are asking these questions you are placing them in a position where they are being required to affirm and confirm already established biblical truths, the very ones they are required to draw us away from. By asking these questions we catch them between a rock and a hard place as they cannot confirm the truths associated with Christ with out compromising the deceptions they were sent to introduce to us. Has Jesus Come in the flesh Does Jesus now sit at the right hand of God on high. Is God the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Is Jesus king of Kings and Lord of Lords Is Jesus the lamb that takes away the sins of the world. Is salvation to be found only in the name of Jesus who shed his blood for us and is now seated at the right hand of God. Is Jesus the Christ The list can be added to yourselves. All you need is known biblical truths that has to be confirmed as true and that can only be affirmed by the spirit that comes from Gods throne of grace. The scriptures instruct us to do this, If the prophetic spirit is from God it will comply very readily. If it is not it will resist in some way or pull away. The same principle can be applied to people as well

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

You simply apply the same list of Biblical truths and compare what a false Apostle is teaching or enforcing to what the bible says. I know quite a few that will not affirm that simple list I put together and they will be the first to teach that the spirit of prophecy is not to be tested this way even though the instruction in the scriptures is perfectly clear. And when you go look at their fruit you can see it produces bitter results. A very obvious modern example is the oneness doctrine, How can Jesus be seated at the right hand of God if he is God. Right off the batt you see who has drifted off into the false. And as expected they will be the very ones that discourage the testing of the spirit of prophecy with excuses like it is disrespectful etc. Then it is the same group that will promptly start giving out prophecies of the different incarnations of God such as Melchisedec which is so obviously wrong but it shows which spirit of prophecy they are listening to. The false. And through religiosity they will bully whom they can into following them. Rotten fruit! If there is one thing the church really needs now it is the true prophecies from Gods thrown of Grace being delivered to the saints, not the false. We have been instructed how to test so why are we not doing it. Is it any wonder there is such a falling away and so much Cynicism on display in the body.

[Beloved65]

Thanks for the reply, Traveler, read thru it kinds of quickly. But what I saw I agree with, especially the fruit, never though of calling false teaching rotten fruit; hope you don't mind me using that phrase.

[Boo]

Thanks for the reply, Traveler, read thru it kinds of quickly. But what I saw I agree with, especially the fruit, never though of calling false teaching rotten fruit; hope you don't mind me using that phrase.

Just a reminder, brothers: be sure that you know the real truth before you accuse someone else of teaching something that is not true. It may be that the person you are listening to IS telling the truth but you may have been decieved by someone else previously. The only resource you can hold in your hand is scripture. Compare the words before you make accusations.

[Beloved65]

Just a reminder, brothers: be sure that you know the real truth before you accuse someone else of teaching something that is not true. It may be that the person you are listening to IS telling the truth but you may have been decieved by someone else previously. The only resource you can hold in your hand is scripture. Compare the words before you make accusations.

Amen! Sounds like you might be paraphasing Isaiah 8:20!

[RollTide21]

John told us what to do. Any spirit that won't confess Jesus Christ having come in the flesh and was sent by God is a Spirit of Evil. Simple.

The question is...what does he mean by "spirits". Is he talking about spirits acting through human teachers? if so, then that makes it REALLY simple. If a person is pushing a certain teaching and that teaching isn't founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it should be discounted immediately. If it IS based on that fundamental Truth, then it may be profitable for teaching. You might disagree, but you're not flirting with false prophets who deny Christ.

[aftertheflood]

John told us what to do. Any spirit that won't confess Jesus Christ having come in the flesh and was sent by God is a Spirit of Evil. Simple.

It not as simple as that. John wrote his first letter to oppose the heresy of Docetism. Docetism taught that Christ did not come in the flesh but only as a spirit. Many false teachers do teach that Christ came in the flesh so this statement in John does not have a ubiquitous application.

[RollTide21]

It not as simple as that. John wrote his first letter to oppose the heresy of Docetism. Docetism taught that Christ did not come in the flesh but only as a spirit. Many false teachers do teach that Christ came in the flesh so this statement in John does not have a ubiquitous application.

Do the "false teachers" also claim that Christ was sent by God? Do they profess the Truth of the Gospel?

[aftertheflood]

Do the "false teachers" also claim that Christ was sent by God? Do they profess the Truth of the Gospel?

An example would be Mormonism. It clearly teaches that Christ was sent by God but denies the true nature of Christ. Another would be the teachings of the Oneness Pentecostals which denies the trinity. The latter is not anti-salvific per se but dangerous as understanding the true nature and character of Christ is essential if we are to grow in His likeness. But other than holding to this heretical idea, the teachings of the Oneness Pentecostals as a whole is well within orthodoxy whereas the polytheism of the Mormon Church is not. Many false teaching are not heretical though if taken to an extreme they can certainly end up there. In many churches today you will see the false teaching of name it and claim it. It is not anti-salvific and many who go to those churches are clearly saved. In the same way many other churches are characterized by the false teaching(s) of asceticism and like the name it and claim it, many are truly saved. Of the two though, the ascetic are more dangerous to the gospel precisely because they are bereft of the joys and mercies that are to characterize the body of Christ. Therefore they make the gospel largely unpalatable. This is why we must continually look to understand the whole counsel of God.

[Watchman]

So I was just curious how many think the gift of discerning of spirits (I Corithians 12:10; I John 4:1-2) is so needed in the church today?

Those with this gift now discern the evil spirit of religion that has captivated much of organized religion. This gift has not faded away, nor will it until then end comes.

W

[RollTide21]

An example would be Mormonism. It clearly teaches that Christ was sent by God but denies the true nature of Christ. Another would be the teachings of the Oneness Pentecostals which denies the trinity. The latter is not anti-salvific per se but dangerous as understanding the true nature and character of Christ is essential if we are to grow in His likeness. But other than holding to this heretical idea, the teachings of the Oneness Pentecostals as a whole is well within orthodoxy whereas the polytheism of the Mormon Church is not. Many false teaching are not heretical though if taken to an extreme they can certainly end up there. In many churches today you will see the false teaching of name it and claim it. It is not anti-salvific and many who go to those churches are clearly saved. In the same way many other churches are characterized by the false teaching(s) of asceticism and like the name it and claim it, many are truly saved. Of the two though, the ascetic are more dangerous to the gospel precisely because they are bereft of the joys and mercies that are to characterize the body of Christ. Therefore they make the gospel largely unpalatable. This is why we must continually look to understand the whole counsel of God.

I'm with you to an extent. However, I do not think that John...or Peter in 2 Peter chapter 2...were referring to people who were receiving misleading Scriptural interpretation.

In both cases, John and Peter were addressing clear instances of profaning the Gospel and/or its transforming Power.

I believe they are both telling their readers essentially: "Look, the Gospel message is this: Jesus Christ was crucified and God raised Him from the dead. We all saw Him and talked and ate with Him after His Resurrection. Receive this Gospel for forgiveness of sin and walk in the righteousness found in Him. Don't let people lead you astray from this, God's simple plan of redemption."

Point is...there is a foundation they are urging their readers to cling to. This is the bare Message of the Gospel.