Wrath of the Lamb

[HeIsLord]

I have wondered about the phrase "wrath of the Lamb":

"Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of place" (Rev 6:14)
"And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in caves and in the rocks of mountains." (Rev 6:15)
"and said to the mountains and rocks 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!'" (Rev 6:16)
"For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" (Rev 6:17)

Two things perplex me about this passage:

(1) "wrath of the Lamb" is a mixed metaphor. Lambs are defenseless and easily frightened creatures. They are the vulnerable offspring of a prey species. In Christian types, the lamb pictures the innocent one who is sacrificed for the sins of others. It points to the first coming of the Lord, as a lamb led to slaughter that opens not his mouth (Isa. 53:7). It is out of place in the context of his second coming as the "Lion of Judah". When they say "hide us from the face of Him", who would be afraid of a lamb's face?
(2) Consider the source quoted as using the phrase: worldly, carnal, kings and mighty men. Not Jews, not Christians, not elders, not angels. Considering the source, should we accept that they have any authority to reach that conclusion? Could they be sarcastic? Mocking God? Shaking their fist at God? Jumping to a conclusion?

There are occasions in Scripture when worldly kings and mighty men incorrectly interpret the times:

"But when Pharoah saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said" (Exodus 8:15)

And there are occasions in Scripture when worldly kings and mighty men correctly interpret the times:

"Then word came to the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robes, covered himself in sack cloth, and sat in ashes" (Jonah 3:6)

Whether what these men said concerning the "wrath of the Lamb" was true, partly true, or not true at all makes a big difference to Bible prophecy. The first time in Revelations when a reputable source declares the wrath of God has come is in Chapter 11 when the Elders speak:

"The nations were angry and your wrath has come." (Rev 11:18)

This is after the seal judgments and the trumpet judgments, and before the bowl judgments.

The first time John writes about the wrath of God is in relation to the bowl judgments:

"seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete" (Rev 15:1)

and

"the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God" (Rev 15:7)

At issue is whether the first judgments the seals and the trumpets were judgments of God's wrath or whether they were merely signs meant to demonstrate God's power with the purpose of bringing repentance, similar to the judgments brought against the land of Egypt.

If we are going to believe all the judgments were judgments of wrath, can we base that belief on what the carnal men of this depraved world testify?

[Old man]

I have wondered about the phrase "wrath of the Lamb":

Two things perplex me about this passage:

(1) "wrath of the Lamb" is a mixed metaphor. Lambs are defenseless and easily frightened creatures. They are the vulnerable offspring of a prey species. In Christian types, the lamb pictures the innocent one who is sacrificed for the sins of others. It points to the first coming of the Lord, as a lamb led to slaughter that opens not his mouth (Isa. 53:7). It is out of place in the context of his second coming as the "Lion of Judah". When they say "hide us from the face of Him", who would be afraid of a lamb's face?

I'll comment now on your first question, I'll have to research and consider the second.

The context is the opening of the sixth seal in chapter 6 but the context of this begins back in chapter 4. The seals are part of a scroll given to Christ by Him who sits upon the throne because He was worthy to receive it and look upon it when no one else was found anywhere who was (Chapter 5). The seals are the beginning of several series of Judgments upon those who dwell on the face of the earth. One interesting is why Christ appears as a lamb in chapter 5 to receive the scroll in the first place.

In Rev 1-3 Christ judges the church but is shown as exalted Lord and Ruler of the church in chapter one and this description of Him is reflected in all the letters to the churches. No where in dealing with the judgment of the churches is he described as the "Lamb who was slain". In chapter 5 where things are set up to judge the world (i.e. the scroll with the seals) He is described as the Lamb who was slain; in fact this is the reason He was found worthy (that context is found all through chapter 5). The reason the church is not judged by Christ in the image of the Lamb is because those in the church accepted His sacrifice for our sins; therefore He judges the church as our exalted Lord and judgment is based on our actually living as though He is.

In chapter 5 Christ receives the scroll to begin judging the world. He appears as the lamb because He is the Lamb who was slain for the sins of the world. Those in the world did not accept His sacrifice for their sins and so are judged by Christ in the image of what the world rejected.

[episkopos]

I have wondered about the phrase "wrath of the Lamb":

"Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of place" (Rev 6:14)
"And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in caves and in the rocks of mountains." (Rev 6:15)
"and said to the mountains and rocks 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!'" (Rev 6:16)
"For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" (Rev 6:17)

Two things perplex me about this passage:

(1) "wrath of the Lamb" is a mixed metaphor. Lambs are defenseless and easily frightened creatures. They are the vulnerable offspring of a prey species. In Christian types, the lamb pictures the innocent one who is sacrificed for the sins of others. It points to the first coming of the Lord, as a lamb led to slaughter that opens not his mouth (Isa. 53:7). It is out of place in the context of his second coming as the "Lion of Judah". When they say "hide us from the face of Him", who would be afraid of a lamb's face?
(2) Consider the source quoted as using the phrase: worldly, carnal, kings and mighty men. Not Jews, not Christians, not elders, not angels. Considering the source, should we accept that they have any authority to reach that conclusion? Could they be sarcastic? Mocking God? Shaking their fist at God? Jumping to a conclusion?

There are occasions in Scripture when worldly kings and mighty men incorrectly interpret the times:

"But when Pharoah saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said" (Exodus 8:15)

And there are occasions in Scripture when worldly kings and mighty men correctly interpret the times:

"Then word came to the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robes, covered himself in sack cloth, and sat in ashes" (Jonah 3:6)

Whether what these men said concerning the "wrath of the Lamb" was true, partly true, or not true at all makes a big difference to Bible prophecy. The first time in Revelations when a reputable source declares the wrath of God has come is in Chapter 11 when the Elders speak:

"The nations were angry and your wrath has come." (Rev 11:18)

This is after the seal judgments and the trumpet judgments, and before the bowl judgments.

The first time John writes about the wrath of God is in relation to the bowl judgments:

"seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete" (Rev 15:1)

and

"the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God" (Rev 15:7)

At issue is whether the first judgments the seals and the trumpets were judgments of God's wrath or whether they were merely signs meant to demonstrate God's power with the purpose of bringing repentance, similar to the judgments brought against the land of Egypt.

If we are going to believe all the judgments were judgments of wrath, can we base that belief on what the carnal men of this depraved world testify?

We also hear such things as...

Luk_19:40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

Stones crying out? So in other words the urge is so great that even the rocks cry out!

So Jesus is harmless as a lamb.....but the urge is so great against evil that even a lamb would have wrath!!! Such is the wrath that has been earned on those whom it shall fall. So even Jesus gets exasperated!!!!

[HeIsLord]

I like this answer. It shows imagination, maybe inspiration. We need to leave room for the supernatural.

However, when Jesus entered Jerusalem on a donkey and spoke of the "stones crying out" he was referring to the prophecy of Habbakuk:

"Woe to him who builds his realm by unjust gain to set his nest on high
to escape the clutches of ruin!
You have plotted the ruin of many peoples
shaming your own house and forfeiting your life
The stones of the wall will cry out
and the beams of the woodwork will echo it" (Hab. 2:9,10,11)

Jesus will begin to judge the priests who are responsible for the Temple
and overturn the tables of the moneychangers.

The "house" refers to the Jewish faith of which the Temple is the prime symbol. The "stones" refer to Jewish believers.
The "stones who cry out" refer to Jews who believe Jesus and recoil at His mock trial and unjust crucifixion.
The "beams of the woodwork" could be an allusion to the cross itself.

In any event, it is pretty clear the stones who cry out are Jews.

This leaves the question open as to whether the "wrath of the Lamb" cry of the Gentile Kings, mighty men, commanders, etc was inspired, partly true, or not true at all.

[HeIsLord]

Greetings. Your thoughts are welcome.

My belief is in line with yours. I would add, I believe the scroll with the seven seals is the title deed to the earthly rule of our planet. This was forfeited by Adam in the garden and temporarily acquired by the "prince of the power of the air". Christ bought back the right to earthly rule when he died on the cross, but He has chosen not to exercise that right until we see Him do so in Revelation 5. Therefore, it is most fitting that we see the lamb that was slain seated on the throne who is the One found worthy to open the scroll. Opening the scroll releases a process that will ultimately end in the return of Christ to earth to rule from Jerusalem in the Millennium.

Here is where our thoughts diverge. Christ continues to be portrayed through Revelation as the slain Lamb upon the throne, because the virtue of His work on the cross and his blood continues to be required to open successive seals and related judgments. The seventh seal contains the trumpets, and the seventh trumpet contains the bowls. So, all the latter judgments are part of the original seals. Although it is correct that the unrighteous will be lost because they did not respond with faith to the testimony of the Lamb that was slain, I don't believe the Lamb that was slain is symbolic of the final judgment of God. There are too many texts, indeed the whole sacrificial system, that connect the slain lamb with forgiveness of sins for that to be appropriate.

When John writes of the Great White Throne, "and Him who is seated upon it", he does not disclose the appearance of the Lord at that time. My guess is when the dead are judged, none of the glories of Heaven or of Christ will be evident at all. The only thing the dead shall see is the angel opening the Book of Life.

[HeIsLord]

In Revelation 6:16,17 the Greek work "orge" is translated "wrath". "Orge" means "anger", especially of an authority with one who has disobeyed. There is a sense of emotion attached to the anger. This anger seeks a punishment, a settlement, and could be placated with vengeance.

In Revelation 11 and 15 the Greek word "thumos" is translated "wrath". "Thumos" means "fierce rage", to the point of uncontrollable emotion. This hot anger seeks destruction. It is a blaze of emotion, and will not be satisfied with any settlement or appeal for mercy.

The Kings, Mighty Men, Commanders in Revelation 6 perceive that God is angry with them and that is why the violent earthquake has occurred. They believe God wants to punish them. This leaves the faint hope that they may survive and somehow the anger of God may be placated.

The testimony of the elders and of John in Revelation 11 and 15 is the bowls represent the wrath, or fierce anger, of God. As we see, everything and everyone that is subjected to the bowl judgments does not survive. There is no remnant such as we saw after the seal and trumpet judgments. This confirms that "thumos" is a different level of anger from "orge", a fierce rage.

The interesting thing is the verse in Thessalonians that says "we are not appointed to wrath" uses the "Orge" Greek word. This is true of Christians because God sees us through the blood of Christ, spotless, deserving not even of an angry judgment. Our appeal for mercy has been granted and we are forgiven.

Perhaps the message of Rev 6:16,17 is the people of the world perceive God hand's in the violent natural disaster, but do not understand the nature of the sign, that it portends a final judgment of utter destruction that is soon coming on the earth.

[Old man]

I believe the scroll with the seven seals is the title deed to the earthly rule of our planet. This was forfeited by Adam in the garden and temporarily acquired by the "prince of the power of the air".

A title deed is something that indicates ownership not rulership. Are you suggesting ownership of the earth or actually having authority to rule. Whereas Adam had authority he never had ownership. And even that authority was given by God and if Adam did lose that authority why would it go to the devil rather than revert back to God. I am (at least at this moment) of the opinion that satan doesn’t own this earth and does not have the all the authority or that he has far less than we have been led to believe that he has.

Therefore, it is most fitting that we see the lamb that was slain seated on the throne who is the One found worthy to open the scroll.

It is not Christ who is sitting on the throne in Rev 4-5. He interacts with the one sitting on the throne and the one on the throne giving Him the scroll. (Which you stated previously He already had but just chose not to use it)

Here is where our thoughts diverge. Christ continues to be portrayed through Revelation as the slain Lamb upon the throne, because the virtue of His work on the cross and his blood continues to be required to open successive seals and related judgments.

It is not His blood that opens the seals or sets in motion the other judgments nor is it required. He opens them because of who He is and the authority He has. His blood was required to purchase us to God. He blood is not required to judge.

The seventh seal contains the trumpets, and the seventh trumpet contains the bowls. So, all the latter judgments are part of the original seals.

Not necessarily. I myself seem to be switching back and forth between the idea of successive judgments and concurrent judgments and I have not found enough to solidly stand on one or the other. There are other possibilities as well.

I don't believe the Lamb that was slain is symbolic of the final judgment of God.

I did not say the Lamb is symbolic of the final judgment I said that the reason He is portrayed as the Lamb of God here in relation to the judgment of those dwelling on the earth is because they rejected His sacrifice as the Lamb of God for their sins.

When John writes of the Great White Throne, "and Him who is seated upon it", he does not disclose the appearance of the Lord at that time. My guess is when the dead are judged, none of the glories of Heaven or of Christ will be evident at all. The only thing the dead shall see is the angel opening the Book of Life.

I don’t see how you can come to this conclusion. There is one sitting on the throne ….. they are standing before that throne.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Mat 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;

[HeIsLord]

Hello Old Man,

We are getting quite a ways off the topic here which addresses Revelations 6. When the Kings, Mighty Men, and Commanders said "wrath of the Lamb" and "day of His wrath" were they were correct, partly correct, or incorrect?

How would these carnal worldly people have such an advanced spiritual knowledge? If a world disaster happened today I can't imagine the nightly news saying it was an act of God, never mind attributing it to the vengeance of Jesus.

[dan]

Hello Old Man,

We are getting quite a ways off the topic here which addresses Revelations 6. When the Kings, Mighty Men, and Commanders said "wrath of the Lamb" and "day of His wrath" were they were correct, partly correct, or incorrect?

How would these carnal worldly people have such an advanced spiritual knowledge? If a world disaster happened today I can't imagine the nightly news saying it was an act of God, never mind attributing it to the vengeance of Jesus.

I gather that the "Voice Of The Lord" will be heard prior to the destruction that follows:

PS 18:13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.

PS 29:7 The voice of the LORD divideth the flames of fire.

PS 29:8 The voice of the LORD shaketh the wilderness; the LORD shaketh the wilderness of Kadesh.

PS 29:7 The voice of the LORD divideth the flames of fire.
PS 29:8 The voice of the LORD shaketh the wilderness; the LORD shaketh the wilderness of Kadesh.

PS 68:33 To him that rideth upon the heavens of heavens, which were of old; lo, he doth send out his voice, and that a mighty voice.

IS 30:31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.

IS 31:4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.

[DurbanDude]

At issue is whether the first judgments the seals and the trumpets were judgments of God's wrath or whether they were merely signs meant to demonstrate God's power with the purpose of bringing repentance, similar to the judgments brought against the land of Egypt.

If we are going to believe all the judgments were judgments of wrath, can we base that belief on what the carnal men of this depraved world testify?

The bowls of wrath occur at the end of the seals and trumpets. ie the last of the seals and trumpets can be associated with God's wrath, as with the bowls of wrath. The earlier seals and trumpets could lead some to repentance as the tribulation is still occurring and if they have not yet received the mark of the beast they could turn to God when experiencing the intensity of the tribulation period.

[HeIsLord]

The seal just prior to the great earthquake may provide a clue to our puzzle:

"When he [the Lamb] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the Word of God and the testimony they maintained. 'How long , Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?'. Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed." (Rev 6:9-11)

It appears early in the account of the Apocalypse that saints are being martyred continually, (see the phrase "until the number to be killed is completed.")

With utmost respect to those who believe we are whisked away before the seals are broken, it would appear these are Christians being martyred here. The first four seals are conquest, war, famine, and pestilence. The location of these souls is 'under the altar' indicate they are trusting in the cross, which is the altar on which the Lamb of God was slain. We know Christians are a target of persecution because these saints are dying for their testimony, not because they are collateral damage in a wider conflict. Its hard to imagine a great evangelistic campaign underway to create new Christians to replace the ones who just left. Folks a little distracted killing one another and dying of hunger and disease. If Christians have been raptured it is even harder to imagine who would be actively converting people to Christ just in time for those new believers to be martyred.

If this is the meaning of Seal Five, then perhaps as Christians are being led to slaughter en masse, they are warning their persecutors of the wrath to come?

If the killing of Christians becomes public sport, as it was in Roman days, and if all the people in the world have TV and internet to watch this, then all the carnal worldly Kings, Great Men, Mighty Men, Commanders, and every Slave and Free Man would be aware of the last message on the lips of those who die for Christ.

Then, when the great earthquake of Seal Six comes along, the message of the Christians comes home and that explains how the carnal and worldly Kings, Great Men etc have the spiritual discernment to call for the rocks to fall on them and hide them from the "wrath of the Lamb" and "the face of him who sits on the throne".

If anyone has a better explanation, please do share.

[dan]

The seal just prior to the great earthquake may provide a clue to our puzzle:

"When he [the Lamb] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the Word of God and the testimony they maintained. 'How long , Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?'. Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed." (Rev 6:9-11)

It appears early in the account of the Apocalypse that saints are being martyred continually, (see the phrase "until the number to be killed is completed.")

With utmost respect to those who believe we are whisked away before the seals are broken, it would appear these are Christians being martyred here. The first four seals are conquest, war, famine, and pestilence. The location of these souls is 'under the altar' indicate they are trusting in the cross, which is the altar on which the Lamb of God was slain. We know Christians are a target of persecution because these saints are dying for their testimony, not because they are collateral damage in a wider conflict. Its hard to imagine a great evangelistic campaign underway to create new Christians to replace the ones who just left. Folks a little distracted killing one another and dying of hunger and disease. If Christians have been raptured it is even harder to imagine who would be actively converting people to Christ just in time for those new believers to be martyred.

If this is the meaning of Seal Five, then perhaps as Christians are being led to slaughter en masse, they are warning their persecutors of the wrath to come?

If the killing of Christians becomes public sport, as it was in Roman days, and if all the people in the world have TV and internet to watch this, then all the carnal worldly Kings, Great Men, Mighty Men, Commanders, and every Slave and Free Man would be aware of the last message on the lips of those who die for Christ.

Then, when the great earthquake of Seal Six comes along, the message of the Christians comes home and that explains how the carnal and worldly Kings, Great Men etc have the spiritual discernment to call for the rocks to fall on them and hide them from the "wrath of the Lamb" and "the face of him who sits on the throne".

If anyone has a better explanation, please do share.

After the Tribulation has reached it's half-way point, and the AC has broken the agreement made with Israel, The Voice Of The Lord will be heard, beginning, it is said in the Apochrypha, at the shores of the seas.

Soon thereafter, the Voice will be accompanied by burning objects that fall from the skies.

I think the Voice will declare the belated "Good News" and the "Seven Thunders" sealed up by John. It will also give instructions that Christians will heed, for we, "know His Voice".

EZEK 22:21 Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst therof.

PS 46:6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

JN 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
JN 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
JN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
JN 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

[dancedwithdolphin]

I believe when it says the Lamb of God, it is making an identification. Letting us know who has the right to judge (as one of the first christian martyres Stephen said: 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 7:55)

Jesus has the right to judge, why? Because he paid the price (he is the Lamb of God).

And I personally believe these are sealed books that the TNK (Old Testiment) speaks about being sealed, for example Jeremiah was to seal up the scroll pronouncing judgement.
Ever wonder why the last book of the New Testiment is called Revelation? Because it is revealing something. And since there was no New Testiment per say, but only the TaNaKh this is where the New Testiment came from. All of the New Testiment is revelation.

YHVH wants us all to be saved, but everything has its time and season. And the time will come for a New Heaven and a New Earth. The old will pass away.

[T W Taylor]

The seal just prior to the great earthquake may provide a clue to our puzzle:

"When he [the Lamb] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the Word of God and the testimony they maintained. 'How long , Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?'. Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed." (Rev 6:9-11)

It appears early in the account of the Apocalypse that saints are being martyred continually, (see the phrase "until the number to be killed is completed.")

With utmost respect to those who believe we are whisked away before the seals are broken, it would appear these are Christians being martyred here. The first four seals are conquest, war, famine, and pestilence. The location of these souls is 'under the altar' indicate they are trusting in the cross, which is the altar on which the Lamb of God was slain. We know Christians are a target of persecution because these saints are dying for their testimony, not because they are collateral damage in a wider conflict. Its hard to imagine a great evangelistic campaign underway to create new Christians to replace the ones who just left. Folks a little distracted killing one another and dying of hunger and disease. If Christians have been raptured it is even harder to imagine who would be actively converting people to Christ just in time for those new believers to be martyred.

If this is the meaning of Seal Five, then perhaps as Christians are being led to slaughter en masse, they are warning their persecutors of the wrath to come?

If the killing of Christians becomes public sport, as it was in Roman days, and if all the people in the world have TV and internet to watch this, then all the carnal worldly Kings, Great Men, Mighty Men, Commanders, and every Slave and Free Man would be aware of the last message on the lips of those who die for Christ.

Then, when the great earthquake of Seal Six comes along, the message of the Christians comes home and that explains how the carnal and worldly Kings, Great Men etc have the spiritual discernment to call for the rocks to fall on them and hide them from the "wrath of the Lamb" and "the face of him who sits on the throne".

If anyone has a better explanation, please do share.

The Saints have been killed and will be killed, mostly by the Roman church from the time of Christ, through out the ages if they didn’t except Constantine’s (the Beast) religion and his mark. (the cross)

The Wrath comes after Christ’s return. The Tribulation comes before.

The six seal earthquake has already happened, and killed over 250,000 people.

[dan]

The Saints have been killed and will be killed, mostly by the Roman church from the time of Christ, through out the ages if they didn’t except Constantine’s (the Beast) religion and his mark. (the cross)

The Wrath comes after Christ’s return. The Tribulation comes before.

The six seal earthquake has already happened, and killed over 250,000 people.

Will the Roman Church acquire nuclear weapons? Islam probably beat the record of the Catholic Church in the Second Crusades.