Can we advance in spiritual Character or only Walk in the Spirit Moment to Moment?

[episkopos]

If I am walking in the Spirit whose character am I demonstrating? If not am I not demonstrating my own? I must die so he can live,there is no other way. I am fully persuaded that in my flesh dwells no good thing.

Very well...but a nature is not a character. We are born with a fallen nature...but not a fallen character. You can train a character...but not a nature. So the sin nature must die....and we must surrender (in our character) so as to take on God's holiness. As we do this men will think it is WE that are holy. But we know that it is Christ within that is holy...we are obedient and compliant to the Spirit through a surrendered character. It is the character that declares...it is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me.

The additions to faith in 2Peter1 are a prime example of a character that is being forged to contain and show forth Christ.

[Nobunaga]

I wonder why whenever the old man and inner man is spoken of it is attributed to a "Neeism" I am more inclined to think it's a "Paulism". People often speak of Nee as one corrupted by eastern philosophy because he was Chinese. The irony is that these same people are probably more corrupted by Western Greek philosophers than Nee ever was by eastern mysticism.

Well Nee is very famous for his teaching on the body/soul/spirit......as i said, i was just wondering...... if Episkopos came up with this analogy himself thats fine, i just havn't heard of it and rather than dismiss it i would like to investigate it

I dont know if Paul separates the old man and the inner man ? to me the old man encompasses the inner man so i'm not following the big monkey looking after the wee monkey part...i dont know what the benefit there is in distinguishing these two ?

If the (wee monkey) is the soul then this also died with the old man on the cross when we were crucified with Christ (in my view anyway) are you saying the wee monkey is still alive without the big monkey now ?

[Nobunaga]

I don't know what Nee would say....

If we consider that the wisdom of men is very old...then trust in the "old man" seems very reasonable. The devil is very old as well and very practiced in messing up young ones.

But when compared to an eternal way...in God Himself...these others must melt away.

Very good grasshopper......you have mastered the art of answering a question without answering it.

[episkopos]

I wonder why whenever the old man and inner man is spoken of it is attributed to a "Neeism" I am more inclined to think it's a "Paulism". People often speak of Nee as one corrupted by eastern philosophy because he was Chinese. The irony is that these same people are probably more corrupted by Western Greek philosophers and American commercialism(as we all are to some degree) than Nee ever was by eastern mysticism.

This is very good!!

[episkopos]

Well Nee is very famous for his teaching on the body/soul/spirit......as i said, i was just wondering...... if Episkopos came up with this analogy himself thats fine, i just havn't heard of it and rather than dismiss it i would like to investigate it

I dont know if Paul separates the old man and the inner man ? to me the old man encompasses the inner man so i'm not following the big monkey looking after the wee monkey part...i dont know what the benefit there is in distinguishing these two ?

If the (wee monkey) is the soul then this also died with the old man on the cross when we were crucified with Christ (in my view anyway) are you saying the wee monkey is still alive without the big monkey now ?

God separates us from our natures with the living sword. If we die in our souls then we must be in the lake of fire. Rather we are left helpless again with the death of our protector...until we are empowered again by His Spirit. His strength is made possible through OUR weakness (outside the power that the flesh provides).

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

About the biblical distinctions of spirit soul and body...

Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The soul is the battleground that is fought for between the Spirit and the pull of this world.

[Noeb]

I was just wondering where it came from my friend there a lot of talk about Nee and so forth but this doesnt sound like a Nee-ism...just wondering ?

Nee. Release of the Spirit. Old man must slowly be eliminated so the new man can come forth. Not biblical, because he makes it a long 20 year process. It's no different than the popular black dog (old man)/white dog (new man) analogy. Which ever you feed the most wins. It's just as wrong.

[Noeb]

I dont know if Paul separates the old man and the inner man ? to me the old man encompasses the inner man

Yep! ..................

[Nobunaga]

God separates us from our natures with the living sword. If we die in our souls then we must be in the lake of fire. Rather we are left helpless again with the death of our protector...until we are empowered again by His Spirit. His strength is made possible through OUR weakness (outside the power that the flesh provides).

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

About the biblical distinctions of spirit soul and body...

Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The above seems vague to me, i'll try to explain my view....

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. Romans 6:6

Based on the above i now consider myself dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. This is because i have died to the law through the body of Christ so that i may belong to another...Jesus...in order that i might bear fruit for God by walking in the Spirit and not gratifying the deeds of the flesh but instead putting to death the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit and walking in the light. We agree without Him i can do nothing, i am in total and utter dependency on Him to fulfill what He requires in me and through me....i must abide and bear fruit.

The soul is the battleground that is fought for between the Spirit and the pull of this world.

I dont think i have any problems with this statement. I'll have to think about it.

Edit:

I do have a problem with it because i'm dead lol. The battle is over and i am crucified with Christ....i just have to remember this and not lean on my own understanding and walk by the Spirit.

[Noeb]

God separates us from our natures with the living sword.

I didn't even have to read the rest. You correctly said in another thread recently "there is no dualism in nature" and I commended you for it. What's up?

[episkopos]

I didn't even have to read the rest. You correctly said in another thread recently "there is no dualism in nature" and I commended you for it. What's up?

As I have said...the old nature is done away with in Christ when we are born from above. What is lacking is a Christian character. This is what the sanctification process is about....a mature character IN Christ.

[episkopos]

Nee. Release of the Spirit. Old man must slowly be eliminated so the new man can come forth. Not biblical, because he makes it a long 20 year process. It's no different than the popular black dog (old man)/white dog (new man) analogy. Which ever you feed the most wins. It's just as wrong.

This is actually Pauline. The old man is the sin nature. WE are not a sin nature. If we died in our souls then we would be in the lake of fire. A soul survives physical death. But a soul can only be destroyed in the lake of fire. All souls are alive until final judgment.

[Noeb]

As I have said...the old nature is done away with in Christ when we are born from above. What is lacking is a Christian character. This is what the sanctification process is about....a mature character IN Christ.

So there is never two natures and you spoke incorrectly?

[shepherdsword]

Nee. Release of the Spirit. Old man must slowly be eliminated so the new man can come forth. Not biblical, because he makes it a long 20 year process. It's no different than the popular black dog (old man)/white dog (new man) analogy. Which ever you feed the most wins. It's just as wrong.

You are not hearing what he is saying nor do you understand what is biblical. You filter everything you hear through some false theological construct you have been programmed with. This has been demonstrated by our prior discourses. Coming to maturity in Christ is a long process...some never make it because they don't have ears to hear.

[Noeb]

This is actually Pauline.

Not even close. I'll just post what I said in another thread (go there for more context)
http://bibleforums.org/showthread.ph...ammar-question

You just did what the NT does not. You said the Christian life parallels Israel's journey from Egypt to the promised land. Yet, the NT teaches and warns us to NOT do what they did. To NOT doubt, continue in sin, and put ourselves under law. To NOT turn a short and straight and narrow journey through the wilderness by faith into a long journey of running in circles in the wilderness that's wide and leads to destruction, putting ourselves under law.

Paul said Corinth's condition was shameful. He did not act like it was normal and neither did the writer of Hebrews. They said go on to maturity, why aren't you there, and what's taking so long. Everything in the NT does. It NEVER portrays a long process. Paul did not say the renewing of the mind was a process of maturation. He said take the short cut of walking by faith, the law of faith, the law of the Spirit of life that is in Christ, Christ and him crucified. As you received Christ, even so walk in him. Ye are complete. Ye are dead. How can you still continue in sin? For every temptation God made a way of escape -the cross of Christ. Awake to righteousness and sin not. Renew your mind to this truth and you will then see what is the will of God.

It doesn't take time to learn, it just needs to be known, believed, and obeyed. That's what reckon true for yourselves, what is true with what happened to Jesus, means. Reckon is not a process, it's just something you do repeatedly. I know this is contrary to all the books out there which turn reckon into a work and long list and process of what we must do in order to possibly someday maybe reach a point of brokenness.

In Romans Paul says he received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations. That he was trying to come to them, has not been able to, and with all that is in him he is ready to preach the gospel to them. He wants to preach the gospel to believers? Then he writes the greatest most detailed explanation of the gospel we have. He says things like, "don't you know?" then tells them what they either do not know or possibly do not know. Then he tells them how to walk the truth he told them. This is a good book for getting an understanding of what the gospel is and how to walk in it! He does it through a series of questions he answers and some matter of fact statements.

In Corinthians, on the other hand, Paul says he preached the gospel, why are you still babies? You heard it in word and saw it in power. I showed you and you walk as carnal men. Paul calls it shamefull. This is not a good book for teaching how to walk in Christ. This book tells us what NOT to do.

You are comparing being born of man and born of Spirit and placing the same limitations on Spirit when scripture does not.

Still, it's wrong to compare born of the Spirit believers to rebellious Israel and wrong to say Corinth was restricted to milk when they limited themselves through disobedience and resfusal to grow up after the knowledge they had been given.

Yes, and he did that by telling them who they are in Christ in hopes and prayer they'd see it and set their affections on those things and walk in them.

Not at all. They limited their walk. The Spirit did not limit their walk. By using the example of Corinth, you suggest we must all be babies after receiving the knowledge of Jesus Christ. However it was shameful and not supposed to be the case. You have no example of scripture that says we must be babies after having the eyes of our understanding enlightened in the knowledge of him. So you have to use the worst example of Christians scripture has to offer to have support for your doctrine. That says a lot.

[BrianW]

Mod note:

Enough with the personal insults. Discuss the issue or walk away from the thread.

BrianW.