Can we advance in spiritual Character or only Walk in the Spirit Moment to Moment?

[Eyelog]

There are at least four schools of thought, I guess:

(1) We are to build our character so we can consistently obey the Lord

(2) We can only obey through surrendered walking by or in the Spirit moment to moment

(3) The more we walk in the Spirit, the more we will build Christian character, making it easier to obey even if we are not in the Spirit

(4) We can get better and better at walking in the Spirit, but we never get to a place where we can obey God without being "in the Spirit", "filled with the Spirit" and/or walking by or in the Spirit - it's a moment to moment phenomenon.

Here's some Scripture to consider. What's your view?

Romans 13:14
Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

Galatians 5:16
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Ephesians 2:3
All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
⁵ For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; ⁶ and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; ⁷ and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. ⁸ For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. ⁹ But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
¹⁰ Therefore, my brothers and sisters,^[a] make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, ¹¹ and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1.

we^[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; ⁴ perseverance, character; and character, hope. Romans 5:3-4

as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to ^[a] walk and please God (just as you actually do ^[b]walk), that you excel still more.² For you know what commandments we gave you ^[c]by the authority of the Lord Jesus.³ For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from ^[d]sexual immorality;⁴ that each of you know how to ^[e]possess his own ^[f] vessel in sanctification and honor,⁵ not in ^[g] lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; ⁶ and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. ⁷ For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but ^[h]in sanctification. ⁸ So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you. 1 th 4

Take away the dross from the silver, And there comes out a vessel for the smith; Prov 25:4

[keck553]

Simple works for me. Our human discernment between good and evil is corrupted (just take a look at the homosexual debate amonug Christians in this forum).

"trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding."

If you research the Hebrew meaning and thought behind the word "understanding" much will be revealed. If we do not have an uncorrupted standard of morals, we have no moral standard at all.

[Eyelog]

Simple works for me. Our human discernment between good and evil is corrupted (just take a look at the homosexual debate amonug Christians in this forum).

"trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding."

If you research the Hebrew meaning and thought behind the word "understanding" much will be revealed. If we do not have an uncorrupted standard of morals, we have no moral standard at all.

Interesting. Can you expain simple works a bit more?

[keck553]

Interesting. Can you expain simple works a bit more?

"Trust in the LORD and lean not on your own understanding."

In western thought "understanding" usually means we have collected enough information or experience to understand something. For example understanding hydrogen fusion means we have collected enough information and experienced our hypothesis through observation to form a conclusion. Hebrew thought about understanding is more than just having information or experiences.

The Hebrew word for "understanding" is "bina." the root word is "bin" which means "between." in context it is used as distinguishing between good and evil.

In eastern thought, it is insight that activates the information, not vice versa. This insight therefore becomes utmost in importance because it has to be correct if the information is to be put to fruitful works. For this, man must rely on the only sure source that can not be corrupted.

Because of our sin nature and disobedience to God's way, our ability to properly discern is infected. It is useless to sort out the good and evil based on the sum of our experiences. We need a sure and certain guide. Solomon therefore tells us not to depend on man's sources, but the only guidance that can not be corrupted - God. God's discernment is never wrong.

Yet we smack right into this dilemma every day. To allow that everyone has discernment is to allow pluralism - basically encourage everyone to do what is right in their own mind - iow post modernism.

If we are to walk in the spirit we need to abide in Solomon's conclusion in Ecclesiastes.

[Eyelog]

"Trust in the LORD and lean not on your own understanding."

In western thought "understanding" usually means we have collected enough information or experience to understand something. For example understanding hydrogen fusion means we have collected enough information and experienced our hypothesis through observation to form a conclusion. Hebrew thought about understanding is more than just having information or experiences.

The Hebrew word for "understanding" is "bina." the root word is "bin" which means "between." in context it is used as distinguishing between good and evil.

In eastern thought, it is insight that activates the information, not vice versa. This insight therefore becomes utmost in importance because it has to be correct if the information is to be put to fruitful works. For this, man must rely on the only sure source that can not be corrupted.

Because of our sin nature and disobedience to God's way, our ability to properly discern is infected. It is useless to sort out the good and evil based on the sum of our experiences. We need a sure and certain guide. Solomon therefore tells us not to depend on man's sources, but the only guidance that can not be corrupted - God. God's discernment is never wrong.

Yet we smack right into this dilemma every day. To allow that everyone has discernment is to allow pluralism - basically encourage everyone to do what is right in their own mind - iow post modernism.

If we are to walk in the spirit we need to abide in Solomon's conclusion in Ecclesiastes.

Fascinating. If I get you right, you are saying that view Number 1 is correct because if we know what God commands, and are able to apply it in a given situation, so we know what is good and evil to do in the situation, all we need do is exert our will power and we will achieve "simple works" of obedience.

Is that incorrect? Please help me see it if I missed your point.

[Indueseason]

I would have to pick number 3, with the choices you have given. You seem to be missing out a big factor, that being love. Walk with Him, in an ever growing love/bond. Take an elderly couple, they have walked together for so long, that they became like one another. They might physically look different, but their hearts have became one, they act the same way, react the same way, enjoy the same things. Now the old lady has to leave for a few days, what does the man do? Start doing all those things he hasn't wanted to do from years back, or just carry on walking that same old path, the path that was built on love?

Love is the reason we follow Christ. As that relationship grows in love and trust, we now want to walk His way, along His path with Him. Like the old couple, we should became more like Him, from our actions, to the the core, our hearts.

His love motivates us to obey,that's when we start walking with God, as time passes, this love/bond with Christ grows. Suddenly your no longer focusing on sin and obedience,we're just walking with Jesus and our eyes are on Him

It's all about love, always has been, always will be, without it.............well that's just not worth considering

blessings to you

[Eyelog]

I would have to pick number 3, with the choices you have given. You seem to be missing out a big factor, that being love. Walk with Him, in an ever growing love/bond. Take an elderly couple, they have walked together for so long, that they became like one another. They might physically look different, but their hearts have became one, they act the same way, react the same way, enjoy the same things. Now the old lady has to leave for a few days, what does the man do? Start doing all those things he hasn't wanted to do from years back, or just carry on walking that same old path, the path that was built on love?

Love is the reason we follow Christ. As that relationship grows in love and trust, we now want to walk His way, along His path with Him. Like the old couple, we should became more like Him, from our actions, to the the core, our hearts.

His love motivates us to obey,that's when we start walking with God, as time passes, this love/bond with Christ grows. Suddenly your no longer focusing on sin and obedience,we're just walking with Jesus and our eyes are on Him

It's all about love, always has been, always will be, without it.............well that's just not worth considering

blessings to you

Well said, mon amie.

[Noeb]

I'd say #3 best fits my view.

[Eyelog]

I'd say #3 best fits my view.

Care to explain some of your reasons?

[Nobunaga]

# 2 is my vote although..... "moment to moment" seems like a conscious awareness which is not always the case due to life and functions in life, but 2 is the best option available imo. I dropped out of school number 1 due to excessive failures.

[Nobunaga]

I'd say #3 best fits my view.

wooo...you can obey if your not in the spirit ? i thought you put no confidence in the flesh buddy you surprise me here ?

[Noeb]

To be clear, all believers are in the Spirit according to Romans 8. In Galatians, walk in the Spirit is walking in the same position explained in Romans 5-7.

For example, lusts for women. That was the king sin for me. After killing the deed through my death and resurrection with Christ (the Spirit) for a short period of time, say 3 months, I began to lust less. Often I would find myself having to reckon myself dead again for a period of time. Eventually, I was able to stop without reckoning. However, I can still allow more than a thought and allow it to grow to the point of needing to reckon again.

It's not confidence in the flesh. It's the fruit of the Spirit. Temperance -Gal 5. Fruit naturally comes forth after following the Spirit. So it's still of the Spirit.

That make sense?

[Nobunaga]

To be clear, all believers are in the Spirit according to Romans 8. In Galatians, walk in the Spirit is walking in the same position explained in Romans 5-7.

For example, lusts for women. That was the king sin for me. After killing the deed through my death and resurrection with Christ (the Spirit) for a short period of time, say 3 months, I began to lust less. Often I would find myself having to reckon myself dead again for a period of time. Eventually, I was able to stop without reckoning. However, I can still allow more than a thought and allow it to grow to the point of needing to reckon again.

It's not confidence in the flesh. It's the fruit of the Spirit. Temperance -Gal 5. Fruit naturally comes forth after following the Spirit. So it's still of the Spirit.

That make sense?

(3) The more we walk in the Spirit, the more we will build Christian character, making it easier to obey even if we are not in the Spirit.


If your not in the Spirit where are you ?......in the flesh, but thanks for the explanation.

[marianna]

To be clear, all believers are in the Spirit according to Romans 8. In Galatians, walk in the Spirit is walking in the same position explained in Romans 5-7.

....

It's not confidence in the flesh. It's the fruit of the Spirit. Temperance -Gal 5. Fruit naturally comes forth after following the Spirit. So it's still of the Spirit.

That make sense?

absolutely.

this part being the key: all believers are in the Spirit according to Romans 8

good post Noeb.

[Indueseason]

absolutely.

this part being the key: all believers are in the Spirit according to Romans 8

good post Noeb.

Hey Marianna

Are you taking about this verse?

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It seems to be telling us Christians to walk after the Spirit. It clearly tells us that we can walk in the flesh, as opposed to walking in the Spirit.


blessings to you