Article: Same sex marriage

[A Seeker]

We are not called to clean up the pond, but to fish in it. We cannot change the world, but we can help change individual lives through the power of God operating through us.

Although there is much which I disagree with you on sojourner, This is great wisdom right here!

[Silvermist]

Good article, thank you.

[Slug1]

I agree that eventually, gay marriage proponents will emerge victorious. After all, Satan is the god of this current world system. We definitely need to maintain a solid Christian perspective at all times. We are not called to clean up the pond, but to fish in it. We cannot change the world, but we can help change individual lives through the power of God operating through us. I think the most important thing is that we let our little lights shine, and continue doing so until either the Lord returns, or we are called to be with him. At any rate, we have to avoid letting ourselves become conformed to this ungodly world--no matter how popular the ungodliness becomes, or how powerful its advocates.

Hooah!! As leaders in the Body of Christ... we NEED to do all we can to keep the Body of Christ from being influenced by the world!! Which still means that when the world seeks from the Body of Christ for guidance, that guidance MUST not condone or accept what is sinful and for this topic of Same-Sex Marriage, the Body of Christ MUST NOT accept it, not condone any type of accepting... be it from the Body of Christ or the world. It is STILL not OK for the world to accept this sin but as you said... we are NOT to clean up the errors the world, we CAN only prevent the errors from entering in and tainting the Body of Christ.

[Dravenhawk]

I find it interesting that in 1962 prayer had been removed from the classroom shortly after the sexual revolution ensued. For each degree American society has departed from Gods ways we have received a degree of death. God tells us to flee sexual immorality for a GOOD reason. Whats truely sad about all of this is that the LGBT community comprises roughly two percent of the population of America and Christians make up more than thirty percent of Americas population. So how is it that a measly two percent can make such great strides? The answer is that Christians simply dont care. America is marked to be judged by God and those who sit on their hands in silence will be judged right along with the fornicators. Remember the Church of Laodecia. Just imagine if every Christian soul got on the horn and phoned in to their congressman / woman that the homosexual adgenda is OUT!! and imagine if every Christian soul wrote letters to the sponsors of racy TV shows depicting immoral behavior demanding change or thier products would be crossed off shopping lists. I for one will put my light upon a pole and hold it high as I will have to give a full accounting to God.



Dravenhawk

[andrew_no_one]

I find it interesting that in 1962 prayer had been removed from the classroom shortly after the sexual revolution ensued. For each degree American society has departed from Gods ways we have received a degree of death. God tells us to flee sexual immorality for a GOOD reason. Whats truely sad about all of this is that the LGBT community comprises roughly two percent of the population of America and Christians make up more than thirty percent of Americas population. So how is it that a measly two percent can make such great strides? The answer is that Christians simply dont care. America is marked to be judged by God and those who sit on their hands in silence will be judged right along with the fornicators. Remember the Church of Laodecia. Just imagine if every Christian soul got on the horn and phoned in to their congressman / woman that the homosexual adgenda is OUT!! and imagine if every Christian soul wrote letters to the sponsors of racy TV shows depicting immoral behavior demanding change or thier products would be crossed off shopping lists. I for one will put my light upon a pole and hold it high as I will have to give a full accounting to God.



Dravenhawk

That's actually a really good idea, and why wouldn't we do that? The first thing we oughta do is quit watching the shows that God hates and furinishing them with higher ratings.

[Sojourner55]

I agree with your sentiments, Draven. We as Christians should use the privileges we have been blessed with in this republic, such as making ourselves heard to our representatives, and using the power of the ballot. We have every right to stand up for what we believe, and to elect individuals to office who best exemplify those values. (Though they're getting harder and harder to find these days).

Yet, we also have to be realistic about the current world system, and realize Satan is the god of it--to the extent that God allows Him to be. We are clearly told that things will get progressively worse in the last days. Just because we're opposed to it doesn't mean we can stop it from happening. Astated in the article, I intend to keep shining my light right up until the end comes. But I will no longer engage in endless debates with the same people over and over, who think homosexuality is being singled out and picked on; and that calling it a sin is the same as hating homosexuals.

We're citizens of the kingdom of God, and we should be focusing on bringing new citizens into it, rather than engaging in endless, fruitless arguments with citizens of this world system who oppose both God and godliness--both the wolves and the progressive wolves in sheep's clothing

So yes, shine that light by all means. But shine it for those who are seeking it, rather than wasting it by illuminating what goes on in the darkness. Those who prefer darkness to light are a waste of time better spent illuminating the path to Jesus. Failing in that responsibility is what we will give an God to account for--not for failing to change the world around us.

[Saved7]

Yup, I've tried many times to get people to write to or call corporate of stores or magazines to get people to rally behind me, as I let them know how wrong and offensive it is to see such filth in the grocery store isles. Our children are reading these article headlines and should not be exposed to it. Yet no one joins me. When I complain about a commercial or tv show to other Christians, they respond with a "oh, it's just a little light hearted fun, stop forcing your ways down other people's throats." Or some other similar response. So while we aren't to force our ways on others, are we having other's ways forced on us because we don't complain like other groups do? And is it right for us to do that or is it right for us not to do that? I mean, what we are supposed to do? Will we answer for NOT doing anything, or will we answer for SUPPORTING the wrong thing?

I don't know, I guess your last paragraph kind of nails it there SOJ. It makes me think of a verse that says "for it is a shame to even TALK about those evil things that are done in the dark."

[Master Herblist]

Wow well done, my hat off to you. I want to be on your side when we take our nation back.

[Longsufferer]

What God has deemed as sin is sin, and shall remain sin till the end, no matter how much the world attempts to justify a sin as somehow no longer sin, because they merely say so; such is futile. Moreover the title of any particular sin is irrelevant with God, and again, just because the world gives an emotional response to a particular sin they like, a sin in which they embrace, and have even made an acceptable behavior in the world, in the end it is still sin. Therefore in this topic, all that we would be talking about is proceeding from sin to sin, and nothing more; so such a thing should not even be a question to them which believe, except they still have one foot in the world.

[Slug1]

This popped up this morning in my Youtube feed:

John Piper - No such thing as gay marriage

All I will say is.... AMEN!

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[Sojourner55]

Truth. You know, the saddest thing is, one day, millions of homosexuals will stand before the Lord and wish they had been more concerned with their "wrongs" than their "rights."

[jayne]

......................nevermind

[Eyelog]

Did you see this one, just 6 days ago? Now prosecutorial activism, along with presidential activism on the DOMA (federal Defense of Marriage Act), in the form of refusing to prosecute anyone under marriage protection laws enacted by the respective legislatures is preempting even the courts!

Ill. Prosecutors Refuse To Defend Gay Marriage Ban
by The Associated Press
text size A A A
CHICAGO June 21, 2012, 10:19 am ET
CHICAGO (AP) — Twenty-five Illinois couples were prepared for a long legal fight when they joined lawsuits challenging the state's ban on gay marriage. Turns out they won't get one — at least not from the attorneys who would normally be responsible for defending the state's laws.
Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan and Cook County State's Attorney Anita Alvarez have refused to defend the 16-year-old ban, which defines marriage as between a man and a woman, saying it violates the state constitution's equal protection clause.
The decision has raised eyebrows among some legal experts who believe prosecutors are legally bound to defend Illinois law, and sets up a scenario where a judge could quickly strike down the marriage statute. Supporters of the ban say it's unconscionable that there might be nobody in court to defend it, and some are strategizing over how to intervene.
"I took an oath when I was sworn in to defend the constitution of the state of Illinois and I believe that's what I'm doing," Alvarez said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I'm not going to defend something I believe is in violation of the constitution."
Madigan, who did not respond to a request for comment, plans to file arguments next week in support of the lawsuits, which could be consolidated into one case.
The move, sure to thrust Illinois into the national spotlight as federal and other state courts wrestle with the gay marriage issue, was greeted with enthusiasm by couples involved in the lawsuits. ... SEE the rest of the article at http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...eillinois.html

We must not kid ourselves we can trust any branch of government.

Worse yet, we cannot trust the political system, ... because, really, we cannot trust the electorate. Currently, 6 jurisdictions, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Vermont, Iowa, New Hampshire, and the District of Columbia recognize same-sex marriage, while 7 jurisdictions, Illinois, New Jersey, Nevada, Washington, Hawaii, California and Oregon provide some spousal rights for same-sex couples entering into legal partnerships pursuant to state law, usually with some form of "civil union" law. Civil unions parallel marriage statutes already on the books, and redefine what a "spouse" is.

In addition, Illinois is one of 22 jurisdictions which give special employment discrimination protection to individuals on the basis of sexual orientation.

Finally, churches and religious organizations are highly vulnerable to attacks by individuals, groups and government for what is being increasingly interpreted as sexual orientation discrimination. The result can be loss of tax exempt status, fines, huge damage awards and huge defense costs.

In the case of the Catholic Dioceses in Illinois, for example, they were forced to either agree to refer adoptive and foster children to same-sex couples, or lose their right to continue their over 100 years of ministry in those fields. So, they caved, and gave up those ministries, completely.

New Ill. Civil Unions Law Forces Catholic Charities Out of Foster Care, Adoption
For more than 100 years, Catholic Charities in the Diocese of Rockford, Ill. has been caring for orphaned children. Much of their work came to an end on Wednesday when the Illinois Religious Freedom Protection and Civil Unions Act took effect.
Policymakers did not include a religious exemption, so Catholic Charities halted its state-funded foster care and adoption services because the new law may have forced them to place children with unmarried or cohabitating couples (heterosexual or homosexual). The Heritage Foundation, on its blog, pointed out that, “Faith-based adoption agencies are potentially vulnerable to increased liability if they continue to follow their moral convictions and refuse to place children in homes headed by unmarried couples.”
“As you may know, the Catholic Church does not condone same‐sex unions or unmarried cohabitation between individuals of the opposite sex,” said diocesan communications director Penny Wiegert at a press conference last week. “We believe in the natural order of marriage and the Sacrament of Matrimony between one man and one woman. We also believe and promote the optimal God‐given privilege of every child to be reared in a safe and loving family with a committed and loving male father and female mother whenever possible.”
She continued, “Catholic Charities and other religious agencies implored the State of Illinois to allow their agencies to refer civil union couples to other adoption and foster care agencies so as to not violate the moral teachings of their faith.”
Tragically, she said, that did not happen. The immediate result of the new law will be the transfer of 191 foster care families and approximately 350 children to other adoption agencies in the state. The diocese will close more than half its offices (four of seven) and lay off 58 caseworkers and employees. ... Rest of Article, others at http://www.christianpost.com/news/ne...option-50762/; http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov...tions-20111115

The ways are many through which these laws will attempt to take out huge segments of religious freedom without a single direct battle over the First Amendment. (But be assured, the solution is not to go the way of the Catholic Dioceses of Illinois. There are still sound ways to fight without any compromise at all, through sharp, Christian legal advice.)

But look at these things:

Churches Forced to Vacate Following City Ban on Worship in Public Schools

Across America many churches have been started by holding their services in local public schools. These churches have been blessed to be able to use their local public school buildings in order to start and grow their churches.

The U.S. Supreme Court recently declined to review a legal appeal of the New York City ban on worship services being held in public school buildings. The Supreme Court’s refusal to review the case means the Second Circuit’s decision will stand. This will result in more than sixty churches being given 30 days to find new places to meet and worship. Please pray for these church families during this time of difficulty and pray that the U.S. court system will change its path in this area; pray that churches will legally be able to keep the right to use public school facilities across America.

The IRS is More Closely Scrutinizing Churches and Non-Profits

This past year the IRS has revoked the tax-exempt status of 275,000 nonprofit organizations. With a federal deficit in excess of $1.5 trillion, the government is certainly seeking revenue wherever possible. Churches qualify for exemption from federal income tax under IRS section 501(c)(3) and are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions. A church is not tax-exempt by simply being a church. The following are several key requirements that the IRS is heavily scrutinizing like never before:

• The Church must be organized with by-laws and operated exclusively for religious or charitable purposes
• Net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any private individual or owner
• No substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation
• The organization may not intervene in political campaigns

-- Excerpts from http://www.christianlaw.org/cla/inde...h_for_in_2012/

Evangelicals and churches who hold to the truth of the Word, remember:

1 Timothy 4
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Apostasy
4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

But let's not digress to speak of the environmentalism movement as well.

Instead, let us pray and speak to one another so long as it is called today, so long as there is light, as a time will come when no one can work. But if they could have silenced us by now, they would have.

And consider this: How much infiltration of the enemy is there, really, within our ranks. I can list 20 major denominations that are openly on the side of the enemy. But how many are within our ranks, and the ranks of those who used to be strong? Why did the Rockford, Illinois Catholics fall so easy? Now what are the Illinois Diocese recommending in the way of compromise with the World on spousal/same-sex partner benefit plans, but their own version of 'Don't Ask/Don't Tell'?

We must be watchful, and shrewd as snakes, yes. But we must also do all we can to snatch as many as possible from the flames. Let us heed Jesus:

Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. Revelation 3:2.

... I don't know. I've buried this information in a comment string. Most won't take alarm. And if I acted as if the sky were falling, I'd be ignored anyway.

The truth is, prayer is the key, along with thoughtful action based on many advisers. But giving up, caving in, admitting they've won, accepting defeat, quitting because we are tired, ... these are not in our Christian vocabulary.

We are more than conqueror's brothers and sisters. And God is on our side. They would have no power if it had not been given to them. And we have a resource they know nothing about ....

What is the battle you cannot afford to lose, if you hope to win the war?

The last one.

Isaiah 40:23
He it is who reduces rulers to nothing, Who makes the judges of the earth meaningless.

[Eyelog]

AojouenER SAID: Yet, we also have to be realistic about the current world system, and realize Satan is the god of it--to the extent that God allows Him to be. We are clearly told that things will get progressively worse in the last days. Just because we're opposed to it doesn't mean we can stop it from happening. Astated in the article, I intend to keep shining my light right up until the end comes. But I will no longer engage in endless debates with the same people over and over, who think homosexuality is being singled out and picked on; and that calling it a sin is the same as hating homosexuals.

We're citizens of the kingdom of God, and we should be focusing on bringing new citizens into it, rather than engaging in endless, fruitless arguments with citizens of this world system who oppose both God and godliness--both the wolves and the progressive wolves in sheep's clothing

So yes, shine that light by all means. But shine it for those who are seeking it, rather than wasting it by illuminating what goes on in the darkness. Those who prefer darkness to light are a waste of time better spent illuminating the path to Jesus. Failing in that responsibility is what we will give an God to account for--not for failing to change the world around us.

Hi, Soj.

Excellent, well-balanced article.

Of course, as my post above points out, NOW is always right now. And NOW is NEVER the time to give up.

What's been our duty toward the Gentiles for the past 2,980 odd years since Acts 2?

Shine the light, preach the Word, claim our rights opnly so far as necessary to do effective ministry. Paul claimed his rights as a Citizen of Rome, but not to save his skin or his point of view or his way of life, be it cultural or economic. Rather, as you know all to well, brother , he claimed his rights in order to find the most effective way to minister in Rome, as guided by the HS. He was warned against returning to Jerusalem, but he boldly did so anyway, back into the maw of those who sought to crush him. He took refuge with the enemies of the Jewish people, and he turned their own laws against them in order to accomplish the Lord's design. He got to preach the Truth before a wide array of insiders and leaders of the day.

As with all 'social issues', things are unique here in the USA because ostensibly we have a representative government of the individual, for the individual, by all individuals (not the way Honest Abe would've said it, but I think it is more accurate to what we expect around these here parts today).

What is our duty to the society we live in -- albeit in it but not of it?

Jesus did not pray we be taken out of the world, but qath we would be protected from the evil one. You do well to point out his command of things.

But do be careful, brother. While matters seem to be getting worse and worse worldwide and you and I cannot see a foreseeable Christian change, two things remain true:

1. No one knows when the Son of Man will revisit; and

2. There is nothing different about how we should be acting the day of the Acts 2 Pentecost and the way we should be acting on July 4, 1776 and the way we should be acting today. Nothing.

As to the first point, we can lose every bastian of a free "Christian nation" in this world, and yet He may not come for 36 more millenia or even millions of years. Why not trillions of years? So, there can be a whole lot of darkness in the world and for a long time, and it can be cruel and miserable for a long, long time before He comes. It is really overblown for us, me included, when we start thinking the end times are upon us, such that suddenly we ought to wake with a start and do what we haven't before, acting like it the end is upon us. The enemy has had antichrists in the world fromthe beginning. So, why ought we to think the world's affairs today are so unique? We are to be watchful, yes. But we must not be deceived into throwin gin the towel The enemy wants us guilty as snakes and oblivious as doves, instead of what Jesus said:

Matthew 10:16
16 “ Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.

So, as to the second point, how ought we to be acting? Revolution? Exodus? Compromise? Die on the horns of the homosexual dilemma? Live and die by what the Christian rights attorney groups can and cannot get done? No. We are to live, now and since the first Chrstian Pentecost, as the light of the world. And that light must not go out, if we want to enter the kingdom. (parable fo the virgins and the wedding feast). My beef with the church is not that we are not political enough. My beef is that we are not true disciples enough.

Our light should shine as an overflow of the heart. If it is not, our hearts are not purely set on Jesus, and so we are not just like Him, and the Spirit is not being discharged from us, as it was with Jesus, Peter, Paul, and others.

That's not due to a general cessation of spiritual gifts, except for our own cessation or failure to even initiate, ... because our own hearts are impure and our own minds are not renewed.

So, who here can say exactly why we ought to care why the society we live in hates Christian marriage and what we should do in light of that?

[Eyelog]

Great article!!

Here is what I submitted to my teacher last semester for a paper on the topic: "Same Sex Marriage".

(This is an actual paper submitted for a college course... so all refs are included)

Same Sex MARRAIGE

... 1. searching for a new location to move our church to has been ongoing for a few months now. I have discovered that other churches that we have contacted and discussed negotiations with have brought to the light their acceptance of same-sex marriage. While they respected our resistance to the acceptance to same-sex marriage, they did expect our acceptance to their decision for their congregation.
Man has broken this covenant of marriage in mainly two ways. In accepting the ease in which a marriage can end for selfish reasons and a divorce secured from the world’s courts for no reason at all in many situations. The other way that this covenant is compromised by man is in the acceptance of and in the execution of, same-sex marriage. Only when a man is joined to a wife are they one flesh and the marriage covenant is in accordance with God and His will.

asked to accept a redefinition of the institution of marriage itself.they would submit to an image of the world and not the image of Christ?

same-sex couples because it requires their testimony to the love of Christ and the church, and because it recognizes that same-sex couples in need of sanctification no less then opposite-sex couples do” others are even redefining that true image of Christ to meet their desire(s) to conform to the image of the world.
2.
3. Sanctification is about a person changing from self to Christ and this process is abandoning and even shedding the old person as their mind becomes changed and they are Christ like.
4. Genesis 1: 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth” (NKJV). Once again we see that any redefining of marriage excludes this purpose of God’s will for marriage.
5.
6. Same-sex marriages cannot be fruitful and procreate children. In this we can also raise the issue of the proper raising of children that only a mother and father are capable of accomplishing as God originally planned. Lifelong commitment and the characteristics of “passion” can be defined in a same-sex marriage. However, this does issue in the aspect of “sin” according to scripture as well. So while a same-sex marriage does involve the elements of sexual relation and commitment, this results in active sin due to these elements of a same-sex marriage. Earlier, I quoted the opinion that same-sex couples are in need of sanctification, so while this is true it is not possible while the couple is actively in a sinful lifestyle.

For a person who is a homosexual or a lesbian to be sanctified before God, then they have to turn away from sin the same as any person must turn from any sin. Sanctification brings about the changing in the mind and this result in the changing in the lifestyle of Christians. They stop doing what is sinful and they start doing what is righteous before God.
7.
8. In the scriptures both Old Testament and New Testament we read that sexual relation between same-sex people is sinful. Romans 1: 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due (NKJV).
9.
10. ”. If sanctification is what they truly seek, then they need to STOP and turn away from this sin the same as ANY Christian must stop and turn away from any sin that is preventing continued sanctification before God.

Throughout the Body of Christ, there are many opinions concerning this topic. From full acceptance of same-sex marriage to zero tolerance of same-sex marriage and a lot of in between as well.
11.
12. Attachment 10873

redefining of God’s institution of marriage is already influencing many or God’s institution of marriage is not fully understood by the Body of Christ.

On the website, “The Economist”, a similar survey was completed between 2008 and 2009 and the results reflect the same results of the surveys done in 2012 posted in the chart above. A point to make however is that from 2008 to 2009, the acceptance of gay marriage is increasing across all the Body of Christ as reflected in the charts for 2012! Only the category of White Evangelical can be viewed as lowering their acceptance but by only one (1) point.

Attachment 10874

In conclusion, it is imperative that leadership throughout the Body of Christ educate their sheep about God’s institution of marriage in accordance with the scriptures and of the intention of God’s will for marriage.
13.
14. There is no redefining of the Word of God and thus, no redefining of the institution of marriage either.
15.
16. Those who are homosexual or lesbian should be loved as people and in the process of ministering to them as any sinner is ministered to, their sin be identified in a loving manner but never lessened by altering the Word of God to suit their lifestyle or lessen their sin. God will do the work in them as long as they are ministered to as Christ would minister to them and sanctification will happen over time.

• 
  
  1. For the Body of Christ to even consider same-sex marriage and allow couples to remain in a sinful lifestyle PREVENTS the sanctification work that Christ wants to accomplish in their lives.
     
     
     we NEED to do all we can to keep the Body of Christ from being influenced by the world!! Which still means that when the world seeks from the Body of Christ for guidance, that guidance MUST not condone or accept what is sinful and for this topic of Same-Sex Marriage, the Body of Christ MUST NOT accept it, not condone any type of accepting...

Awesome article, with some extremely spiritually astute points. Love your analysis of sanctification here, and how the lie of homosexulaity renders it impossible. Many other excellent points.

Don't forget this one:

The homosexual movement is an arm of Satan to destroy the Christian church in the USA.

In light of that, what ought we to do?

Why is God allowing this?

Why will it mostly succeed?

What will be left?

What will the true remnant look like?

What should the true remnant be doing right now before it is over?