If The Wages of Sin is Death, Then....

[WSGAC]

...would Jesus not have died if he had not been crucified?

If Jesus died around age 30, then his body was past its prime (ie., he was getting old, and the body was wearing out). This would be especially true in his time, since age expectancy was lower than today. Such an aging process points towards death, for the body eventually wears out and fails.

So, if the wages of sin is death, then Jesus must not have been aging after about 18 years of life?

[andrew_no_one]

...would Jesus not have died if he had not been crucified?

If Jesus died around age 30, then his body was past its prime (ie., he was getting old, and the body was wearing out). This would be especially true in his time, since age expectancy was lower than today. Such an aging process points towards death, for the body eventually wears out and fails.

So, if the wages of sin is death, then Jesus must not have been aging after about 18 years of life?

I'm not sure I understand the question. I think Jesus was in pretty good shape...he carried his own cross a bit even after getting a horrific beat down...he also took on God's full wrath....I'm 32 and still in my prime (I think), as in I'm stronger, run faster, etcetera than I was in my twenties. I see every reason to believe that Jesus was a Lamb without defect.

[PJW]

Why are you distracted by something that is so inane? Your question is not of God.
Titus 3:9: "But avoid foolish questions...."

[-SEEKING-]

The person has a question, if you can't answer, don't mock.

[Colight]

...would Jesus not have died if he had not been crucified?

If Jesus died around age 30, then his body was past its prime (ie., he was getting old, and the body was wearing out). This would be especially true in his time, since age expectancy was lower than today. Such an aging process points towards death, for the body eventually wears out and fails.

So, if the wages of sin is death, then Jesus must not have been aging after about 18 years of life?

Since Christ is risen..
We really dont have a body to examine to see if all that you state is the case.

[watchinginawe]

...would Jesus not have died if he had not been crucified?

If Jesus died around age 30, then his body was past its prime (ie., he was getting old, and the body was wearing out). This would be especially true in his time, since age expectancy was lower than today. Such an aging process points towards death, for the body eventually wears out and fails.

So, if the wages of sin is death, then Jesus must not have been aging after about 18 years of life?

Jesus, being a human, would have died.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. ... 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

In His death, the fact that He had not sinned and thus did not owe the wages of sin (death) resulted in his victory over death on our behalf. Jesus destroyed death through His death and resurrection.

Jesus would have aged, just like He also was born an infant and maturerd to His age. The age of 30 in Israel was the proper age to begin one's "ministry". Thus Jesus was in His prime at 30 to be a teacher, wholly mature. This age corresponded with the age of serving in the Levitical priesthood (at least to begin with, see Numbers 4).

Regardless, Jesus was born to die in the manner and at the time He did. There were no other circumstances that "might have been".

[Raybob]

...would Jesus not have died if he had not been crucified?

If Jesus died around age 30, then his body was past its prime (ie., he was getting old, and the body was wearing out). This would be especially true in his time, since age expectancy was lower than today. ...

Speak for yourself. I strongly disagree with your assertions. When I was 35, I was overweight at 210 pounds. When I was 49, I was much more healthy at 170, and began clearing the land (forest) to build my house. I built my house (with part time help of licensed contractor, finished it at age at 54. I'm now 57. Yes, my skin is more wrinkled than it was when I was 30, but I'm far healthier and in much better shape now, than I was 20 years ago. About 20 years ago is when I also made a major diet change, using distilled water for ALL foods and beverages (except meals out of house once a week on average) and purchasing most all organic foods and grass fed beef, range chickens and eggs. The point is, I'm in much better shape now, than I was 20 years ago. At 35, I was in no shaped to begin to build a house.

As for people living longer now, that's a fallacy brought on by the pharmaceutical industry. Average live span is now 70 or less. In bible days, the air and water was pure. People lived average of 75 years then, 5 years longer.

The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
(Psa 90:10)

I would think a 'prime' age would be more like 40 than under 30.

[Nobunaga]

...would Jesus not have died if he had not been crucified?

Far from being "inane" this is a very important theological question. How do you avoid the problem of including Jesus in the "All sinned" of Romans 5:12

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned. Romans 5:12. Jesus was a 100 % man...... agreed ?

it's important to see Adam as a headship...we are in Adam as humans just as we are in Christ as believers..the scripture for support is I Cor. 15:22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

So how do we reconcile Romans 5:12 All sinned with Hebrew 7:26 which says Jesus was sinless and undefiled ?

When God created Adam he had a undefiled nature but fell and corrupted his nature when he sinned, We like Adam have followed in his footsteps as his progeny as seen in Rom 5:12 Jesus like Adam was sinless but unlike Adam never sinned....this excludes Him out of Romans 5:12. There are now two Adams, two camps to which human beings can belong, one is Adam the other is Jesus (the second Adam)

Romans 5:18. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men (in Adam), so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men (in Jesus).

[Vanderhoven7]

The person has a question, if you can't answer, don't mock.

There is a difference between mock and rebuke....although both can fall within the realm of holy. In terms of the former, consider Elijah's bathroom humor on Mt. Carmel.

[Nobunaga]

There is a difference between mock and rebuke.

This is a discussion board however, rebuking people for asking questions is sort of ironic.

[vanguard]

...would Jesus not have died if he had not been crucified?

If Jesus died around age 30, then his body was past its prime (ie., he was getting old, and the body was wearing out). This would be especially true in his time, since age expectancy was lower than today. Such an aging process points towards death, for the body eventually wears out and fails.

So, if the wages of sin is death, then Jesus must not have been aging after about 18 years of life?

The answer is No. he would not have died, you must FIRST Die Spiritually in order to die physically. he died when he became sin for us or when he took sin into himself on the cross.
2 Corinthians 5:21

King James Version (KJV)


21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Very good question WSGAC, that is a meat question not milk....

[John 8:32]

...would Jesus not have died if he had not been crucified?

If Jesus died around age 30, then his body was past its prime (ie., he was getting old, and the body was wearing out). This would be especially true in his time, since age expectancy was lower than today. Such an aging process points towards death, for the body eventually wears out and fails.

So, if the wages of sin is death, then Jesus must not have been aging after about 18 years of life?

It is a question which has no answer other than there was no other possible outcome beside crucifixion...

Joh 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[WSGAC]

The point of my question was to consider what the "wages of sin" means for us. Answer: we die. We are born into this world, we grow up, and then the aging process begins to take over. We get old and our bodies wear out. Our physical appearance changes...we wrinkle, we get arthritis or some other problems with our joints and muscles, our minds become forgetful, our sight and hearing diminishes, our teeth fall out, our intestines don't work like they used to....etc...etc...etc. All these are manifestations of the corruption of our flesh (corruption in the physical sense, not the moral...though they are connected).

If these are the marks of our impending death...ie., the marks of sin, then the question "If Jesus lived to age 60 before his crucifixion, would he have had gray hair?" is a legitimate question. If he was without sin, then I assume his body would not have suffered the consequences of sin; his body would not tend towards death.

Or maybe he would have aged and gotten old and wrinkled because this present body was never meant to live forever. Afterall, Adam and Eve weren't created immortal. If they were, then why was there a Tree of Life in the garden, and why were they barred from it after eating the forbidden fruit?

[Nobunaga]

Entropy effects us and the whole creation. Jesus's physical body did and would have continued to show the effects of aging....would he have died ? if the cause of death is sin the answer is No. But He had a human body and was subject to the fragile effects of the human body.... He got tired He, got hungry ect ect.

It will not always be this way however:

We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. Romans 8

[watchinginawe]

The point of my question was to consider what the "wages of sin" means for us. Answer: we die.

As you later intimate, it is much more than that. The "wages of sin" is an existence apart from God. This is the real problem that Jesus solved in the incarnation. There was (is) no existence of Jesus the human apart from the divine Christ. That is why only God, in a unilateral act of grace, could redeem and reconcile to Himself humanity. Another way to look at this (the issue of wages) is that humanity could not solve the problem of sin and thus separation on its own.

We are born into this world,

Jesus was born into this world (Luke 2:6-7)...

...we grow up,

Jesus grew in stature and wisdom (Luke 2:52)...

and then the aging process begins to take over.

I would say that all of the above is the aging process. Jesus was 8 days old when He was circumcised (Luke 2:21), was found as a lad in the temple at "twelve years old" (Luke 2:42-49), increased in stature (Luke 2:52), and began His ministry being "about thirty years of age" (Luke 3:23).

We get old and our bodies wear out. Our physical appearance changes...we wrinkle, we get arthritis or some other problems with our joints and muscles, our minds become forgetful, our sight and hearing diminishes, our teeth fall out, our intestines don't work like they used to....etc...etc...etc. All these are manifestations of the corruption of our flesh (corruption in the physical sense, not the moral...though they are connected).

Though it wasn't Jesus' mission to grow old, I see no reason that He would not have continued to age as given in the Scripture. If Jesus had not been crucified, He would have bore the scars of His scourging. Similarly, He showed the wounds of His crucifixion to His disciples in His resurrected body (John 20:26-28). Jesus was born a human for the express purpose of living the life and dieing the death of a human. Albeit, a human who was not born apart from God in any way, but rather humanity and God reconciled in the flesh.

If these are the marks of our impending death...ie., the marks of sin, then the question "If Jesus lived to age 60 before his crucifixion, would he have had gray hair?" is a legitimate question. If he was without sin, then I assume his body would not have suffered the consequences of sin; his body would not tend towards death.

Maybe we overcomplicate things in our contemplations. Jesus was never going to see 60 years old or a natural death, so the question is moot. Vanguard brings up an interesting solution suggesting that Jesus couldn't have perished at all unless He "became sin" just prior to His death. I don't see that as Paul's point or as being necessary for Jesus' death though.