Ex-gays being harassed

[awestruckchild]

We've already had this conversation in the other thread Tom.
It was pretty much wrapped up in there.
The true Freedom that the Gospel brings to men is a much different thing than the idol named "freedom" that demands the Gospel that brings true Freedom not be spoken in some places in order to maintain freedom.
You can't claim to be maintaining true freedom while at the same time demanding that the Gospel not be spoken. There IS no freedom without Christ.

Everyone can decide for themselves if it seems right when you say that in order to maintain freedom from false religions being freely expressed, no one may freely preach in this name of Jesus. Some men will see the fracture in this and some men won't and will agree with you, but the conversation has already been extensively beat out in Soj's thread on the "six commandments."

[RSouthward]

Please help me out.

Evil freedom and evil tolerance.

How does that work? Two oxymorons.

What I can really see happening is evils whispering in ears that freedom and tolerance is evil. I can see someone convincing free peoples of the world that a more perfect freedom and a world where tolerance is no longer going to be needed. I can see a pied piper false prophet pointing to the one leader that will give us "true" freedom and eliminate tolerance from the vocabulary because it was misleading and unnecessary where there is "true" freedom.

Be very cautious in calling freedom and tolerance a work of the devil.

You may be falling into that trap of a promised utopia.

I agree that we need to be cautious in putting freedom and PC in a box. Galatians 5:1 talks about the freedom we have in Christ. Not all freedom is bad. Generalizing the term can make for the opposite extreme. This life is like a balancing act where we are refining or perceptions to be more and more like Christ. Through the refining we gain freedom in Christ.

How do you think we as Christians should respond to the LGBT and ex-gay communities? Should we through stones or should we love both and seek God wisdom in how to do that? What is the action we should take as a result of reading this article?

[Sojourner55]

Freedom and tolerance are very good things--in the proper context of godliness. But these days, the Devil and his minions have twisted the two into a politically correct pretext for calling good evil, and evil good. That's why morality is disdained and ridiculed, while immorality is defended and advocated. And the gay lifestyle, under the current President, is virtually becoming the poster child for the newest "New Morality." The parades of the LGBT groups are actually a microcosm of a larger march toward global victory by them and similar Trojan Horse social viruses--all under the banner of embracing diversity and human/civil rights.

Yet such lofty ideals espoused by LGBT leadership in the pursuit of equality are shown to be counterfeit and a facade when people are vilified for leaving the gay lifestyle. In general, those of us who consider same sex relationships to be immoral from a Biblical standpoint, are routinely called hateful and intolerant. Why would the castigation and bullying of ex-gays by gay activists not fall into that same category? It seems when the agenda is being undermined, noble, passionate virtues such as dignity, respect, and love for individual choice are tossed aside, until they're deemed useful again.

[Jeanne D]

Freedom and tolerance are very good things--in the proper context of godliness. But these days, the Devil and his minions have twisted the two into a politically correct pretext for calling good evil, and evil good. That's why morality is disdained and ridiculed, while immorality is defended and advocated. And the gay lifestyle, under the current President, is virtually becoming the poster child for the newest "New Morality." The parades of the LGBT groups are actually a microcosm of a larger march toward global victory by them and similar Trojan Horse social viruses--all under the banner of embracing diversity and human/civil rights.

Yet such lofty ideals espoused by LGBT leadership in the pursuit of equality are shown to be counterfeit and a facade when people are vilified for leaving the gay lifestyle. In general, those of us who consider same sex relationships to be immoral from a Biblical standpoint, are routinely called hateful and intolerant. Why would the castigation and bullying of ex-gays by gay activists not fall into that same category? It seems when the agenda is being undermined, noble, passionate virtues such as dignity, respect, and love for individual choice are tossed aside, until they're deemed useful again.

Exactly!

Jeanne

[keck553]

Freedom and tolerance are very good things--in the proper context of godliness. But these days, the Devil and his minions have twisted the two into a politically correct pretext for calling good evil, and evil good. That's why morality is disdained and ridiculed, while immorality is defended and advocated. And the gay lifestyle, under the current President, is virtually becoming the poster child for the newest "New Morality." The parades of the LGBT groups are actually a microcosm of a larger march toward global victory by them and similar Trojan Horse social viruses--all under the banner of embracing diversity and human/civil rights.

Yet such lofty ideals espoused by LGBT leadership in the pursuit of equality are shown to be counterfeit and a facade when people are vilified for leaving the gay lifestyle. In general, those of us who consider same sex relationships to be immoral from a Biblical standpoint, are routinely called hateful and intolerant. Why would the castigation and bullying of ex-gays by gay activists not fall into that same category? It seems when the agenda is being undermined, noble, passionate virtues such as dignity, respect, and love for individual choice are tossed aside, until they're deemed useful again.

Trust the LORD with all your mind and all your strength and lean not on your own understanding. I believe this is the model of Godly discernment.

[aftertheflood]

Gay activists platform is based on what they feel is a "fact" that homosexuality is something they are born with and must be accepted as normal.

The ex-homosexuals shatter that foundation. The exposure to their fallacy, of course, is going to cause a lot of noise.

Born with it or not, it is immaterial. hetero sexual men by and large seem to be born with a penchant for wanting anything that is an even mildly attractive female. God say nope pick one and one only or stay celibate! Yield to your lusts regardless of the object of that lust and you have gone sideways with God in a big way!

[Watchman]

Homosexuality is almost completely rooted in the lack of affirmation from the like-gendered parent...so far as my searches have confirmed. As the Dad of a homosexually-choiced child, this topic is very near to my heart. As a Dad, a scientist, and a saint, I can say that homosexuality is a choice...

[Athanasius]

Homosexuality is almost completely rooted in the lack of affirmation from the like-gendered parent...so far as my searches have confirmed. As the Dad of a homosexually-choiced child, this topic is very near to my heart. As a Dad, a scientist, and a saint, I can say that homosexuality is a choice...

Sometimes it's a choice, sometimes it isn't.

[Saved7]

Ultimately it's because we've all been born under sin and I think sometimes that sin twists everything including our physical bodies (those born with both gender organs) to simply twisting our desires, a perversion of the mind, a perversion of sexual desires. For whatever reason the latter is what I believe the majority are, whether it's as W said, a child who lacked the affirmation of like gendered parents (my uncle) or somehow finds no pleasure in what is natural and therefor is drawn to what is wrong and "bad". In short, there's a rebellious streak that comes out as wrong sexual desires and is only satisfied through fulfilling those sexual desires. Still others it may be some sort of shame where they feel that they work out through wrong sexual practices which leave them feeling ashamed. And I'm sure there are many other reasons, but whatever they are, it's all rooted in the fact that sin twisted, corrupted this world and all it's occupants.

[Sojourner55]

Sometimes it's a choice, sometimes it isn't.

Whether it is or isn't is not really the point here, but rather the blatant double standard being displayed. We have LGBT people bewailing the injustice of being denied the freedom to be who they want to be--but then turning around and denying that very freedom to people who chose to leave the gay lifestyle. Whether homosexuality is a choice or not, many within the "gay community" are being extremely hypocritical in attacking those who seek to exercise the same choices and freedoms they themselves advocate so vocally.

[Vhayes]

Whether it is or isn't is not really the point here, but rather the blatant double standard being displayed. We have LGBT people bewailing the injustice of being denied the freedom to be who they want to be--but then turning around and denying that very freedom to people who chose to leave the gay lifestyle. Whether homosexuality is a choice or not, many within the "gay community" are being extremely hypocritical in attacking those who seek to exercise the same choices and freedoms they themselves advocate so vocally.

There's a difference. They don't claim the name of Christ.

[Sojourner55]

There's a difference. They don't claim the name of Christ.

There's a difference? Hypocrisy is more just and acceptable among non-Christians than among Christians? Really? I beg to differ. Whether one is a shining example of a Christian--or the most unapologetic, hedonistic, scoundrel--denying others what you say you deserve, is hypocritical. You cannot effectively defend such a double-standard, but feel free to try.

[Vhayes]

There's a difference? Hypocrisy is more just and acceptable among non-Christians than among Christians? Really? I beg to differ. Whether one is a shining example of a Christian--or the most unapologetic, hedonistic, scoundrel--denying others what you say you deserve, is hypocritical. You cannot effectively defend such a double-standard, but feel free to try.

Where did I defend it?

It is wrong, no matter WHERE it comes from. Double standards are exactly that - double standards. But those folks are lost. We are not.

Joe Christian wants to live the way he wants to live. But he also wants to tell Josh Unbeliever to live the same exact way. No homosexual is telling ME I have to become "gay".

[Athanasius]

Whether it is or isn't is not really the point here, but rather the blatant double standard being displayed. We have LGBT people bewailing the injustice of being denied the freedom to be who they want to be--but then turning around and denying that very freedom to people who chose to leave the gay lifestyle. Whether homosexuality is a choice or not, many within the "gay community" are being extremely hypocritical in attacking those who seek to exercise the same choices and freedoms they themselves advocate so vocally.

Both Watchman's and my own posts are relevant to the thread. If we can't come to a clear understanding of the causes of homosexuality, there's no point talking of double standards, hypocrisy, or anything else brought up hitherto. The article you linked to your OP made it relevant when it began talking about whether homosexuality was a choice, a result of environment, etc.

[Sojourner55]

If it's wrong no matter who's doing it, and you're not making excuses for them, why say it's different because they're not Christians? It's not different. And you're missing the point here. It isn't Joe Christian telling Josh Unbeliever how to live--it's Jerry Unbeliever doing the judging because Josh wants to change his mind.