Once saved, always saved?

[Colight]

Sooo, has this thread come down to the difference between salvation and rewards? Just curious.

W

How can one work towards rewards if salvation is not secure??
To me that makes it a very worth while exploration..

[claybevan]

Sooo, has this thread come down to the difference between salvation and rewards? Just curious.

W

Don' t think so, think it was just in response to the thread that said 'Salvation Is the crown of righteousness'
but Ah humanity, doesn't take us long to get round to ' rewards '

[Watchman]

All I can say about this topic is: I was saved when I was a young lad of 10 years...@%$! years ago...and I've been saved ever since!

W

[Colight]

All I can say about this topic is: I was saved when I was a young lad of 10 years...@%$! years ago...and I've been saved ever since!

W

Me too..

Many tried to lay doubt they said that I could lose salvation along the way...
but then it dawned on me..
For me to even understand things of the spirit means I am saved. ( I was 13 at that time)

1 Corinthians 1
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

[John146]

So far as Heb 3:12, the Hebrews writer is writing to brother Jews, some of which are at best followers of Christ but not born again yet. It's the same business of a heart turning away from God, a thing the Hebrews were quite experienced and abel to do throuought the OT, and inot the age of rejecting Christ:

I disagree that he was referring to his Jewish brothers who were not yet born again and believe rather that he was speaking to his brothers in Christ (who happened to be Jewish). Look at how he referred to them earlier:

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

I don't believe he would have referred to those who are not yet born-again as "holy brethren" who had partaken "of the heavenly calling".

[BroRog]

That is not entirely correct..

Crown of Righteousness is for Christians who have capacity for Righteousness and Justice to rule and reign with Christ.

The word, Righteousness, in this verse is the Greek dikaiosuvnh (dikaiosune), which means capacity-Righteousness; Righteousness raised to a higher power;
Like a Righteousness x2.. This comes from not only cracking spiritual maturity but going beyond to occupation with Christ.

There is A LOT more to the Christian life than just salvation.
It is rather small to just limit one scope of of their spiritual life to only salvation and their once a week trip to Church..

When Paul refers to the "crown of righteousness", he isn't talking about our Christian walk today. The "crown" is what Greek athletes received when they won a race. Thus, the crown of righteousness is something we receive at the end, when we enter the kingdom of God, and it isn't a "reward" in addition to salvation, it IS our salvation. To be saved is to be made righteous.

[BroRog]

Hi BroRog,

Do you believe that the salvation IS the prize? How do you interpret 1 Corinthians 9:24? Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.

Yes, the "prize" is salvation. Paul isn't saying that only one person will be saved. He targets his argument toward those, like the Jews of his day, and the Christians of our day, who would assume that association with a particular group, the nation of Israel for instance, will lead to salvation. He would say the same thing to me. He would warn me about the mistake I might make, assuming that God is going to save me because I belong to a particular group of holy, sanctified men and women. It would be easy for me to get the wrong impression and assume that we are running the race as a group, rather than running the race as individuals. The runners in a race run as individuals, and I should run as an individual, not leaning on my association with my church, men's group, denomination or whatever.

[Eyelog]

I disagree that he was referring to his Jewish brothers who were not yet born again and believe rather that he was speaking to his brothers in Christ (who happened to be Jewish). Look at how he referred to them earlier:

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

I don't believe he would have referred to those who are not yet born-again as "holy brethren" who had partaken "of the heavenly calling".

Hi,John. That's areally good point.

I am hesitant, however, to believea person is a born again believer just on the basis of such descriptions. the OT Jews considered each other to be holy broher who werepartakers ofthe heaenly calling. Aft3er all, they are the chosen people.

Neverthless, even if you are correct as to his address to his readers, that they were all followers of Jesus Christ. There are followers and ther arefollowers.

to me,the thrust of Heb is not so much about falling away from a stable faith, but failing to grow inthe faith and become like the honest and good heart that produced the abundant crop of fruit with persedvrance,largely because peole failto participate in their practical sancitification.


The book is very much a primer on taking hold of one's faith and doing something with it. So, it is very much an appeal to those new to following Jesus and who need to figure out how to embracethelife of faith in Chirst. It is a messageto the fairly unintiaiated, seeking to help Jews learn to live the life in Christ.

NOte further how hyhpothetical most of the admonitions are.

Thanks for the conversation.

[Colight]

When Paul refers to the "crown of righteousness", he isn't talking about our Christian walk today. The "crown" is what Greek athletes received when they won a race. Thus, the crown of righteousness is something we receive at the end, when we enter the kingdom of God, and it isn't a "reward" in addition to salvation, it IS our salvation. To be saved is to be made righteous.

Your understanding is incorrect

Salvation is not a prize, it is a gift.
Salvation we do not earn
Salvation is the foundations, the rewards of crowns are based on what is built on those foundations.
There ARE rewards in addition to our salvation, heaven will not be equal..there will be many peons and a few rulers.

[BroRog]

Your understanding is incorrect

Salvation is not a prize, it is a gift.

It's neither and it's both. Remember, these are just metaphors, given to illustrate different aspects of salvation. Do we merit salvation? No. It's a gift in that respect. Do we ignore the gospel teaching and walk in this life as if it doesn't matter? NO. It's a prize we seek in that respect.

Salvation is the foundations, the rewards of crowns are based on what is built on those foundations.
There ARE rewards in addition to our salvation, heaven will not be equal..there will be many peons and a few rulers.

If you are talking about 1Cor. 3, Paul isn't talking about gaining rewards for good behavior. In fact, he isn't talking about anyone but those who teach the gospel. He compares his efforts as an Apostle with those of Apollos who came and taught at Corinth. He compares himself as the master builder, with Apollos who builds on the solid teaching of the apostles. Paul is talking about teachers, such as Apollos who come after Paul and the "work" they perform is to teach the church. If a teacher builds his teaching on what the Apostles taught, then his teaching will survive. If he doesn't use the gospel message as the basis for the rest of his teaching, that man's "work" i.e. his teaching will not survive.

It is regrettably a common misunderstanding of 1Cor. 3 which says that Paul is talking about rewards believers receive.

[Colight]

Do we ignore the gospel teaching and walk in this life as if it doesn't matter? NO. It's a prize we seek in that respect.

There is where you are getting growth mixed up with entry.

When one is saved they enter a huge arena with millions to billions of Angels watching us.
Salvation is the entry to this track.. only saved people are allowed on it.

There is a track in this arena and we are told to run on this track and there is reward.
Satan plan is to have us stubble and become a laughing stock..

I mean it is really funny to have believers trip ...to run back to the starting gate run out again.... trip.. run back to the gate.. run out... trip....great fun..like a clown act... It is not so fun is when a believer trips he stands back up brushes him self off and continues with the race.

The more we progress on this track the greater the reward..so we must run to the finish to claim all that God has meant for us to have.

If you are talking about 1Cor. 3, Paul isn't talking about gaining rewards for good behavior. In fact, he isn't talking about anyone but those who teach the gospel. He compares his efforts as an Apostle with those of Apollos who came and taught at Corinth. He compares himself as the master builder, with Apollos who builds on the solid teaching of the apostles. Paul is talking about teachers, such as Apollos who come after Paul and the "work" they perform is to teach the church. If a teacher builds his teaching on what the Apostles taught, then his teaching will survive. If he doesn't use the gospel message as the basis for the rest of his teaching, that man's "work" i.e. his teaching will not survive.

It is regrettably a common misunderstanding of 1Cor. 3 which says that Paul is talking about rewards believers receive.

He starts on that but he goes into eternal testing of a mans work..
Paul is not talking just of teachers for he uses the words ANY MAN...
We all work out our OWN salvation... there fore this is about OUR rewards and what WE are building on this great foundation Christ has laid..

1 cor 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

So we need to be sure of what we build and if we are using good building materials.

[mailmandan]

When Paul refers to the "crown of righteousness", he isn't talking about our Christian walk today. The "crown" is what Greek athletes received when they won a race. Thus, the crown of righteousness is something we receive at the end, when we enter the kingdom of God, and it isn't a "reward" in addition to salvation, it IS our salvation. To be saved is to be made righteous.

Do you believe that all crowns represent salvation? Incorruptible Crown (1 Corinthians 9:25); Crown of Rejoicing (1 Thessalonians 2:19); Crown of righteousness (2 Timothy 4:8); Crown of glory (1 Peter 5:4); Crown of life (Revelation 2:10). Paul referred to the Philippian believers as my joy and crown in Philippians 4:1. In Proverbs 14:18 we read that the prudent are crowned with knowledge. In Proverbs 12:4 we read that a noble wife is her husband's crown. In Revelation 4:10, we read that the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne. Also, in Revelation 19:12, we read about Jesus, His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. How does all of this fit together if crowns are simply referred to as salvation?

[mailmandan]

Yes, the "prize" is salvation. Paul isn't saying that only one person will be saved. He targets his argument toward those, like the Jews of his day, and the Christians of our day, who would assume that association with a particular group, the nation of Israel for instance, will lead to salvation. He would say the same thing to me. He would warn me about the mistake I might make, assuming that God is going to save me because I belong to a particular group of holy, sanctified men and women. It would be easy for me to get the wrong impression and assume that we are running the race as a group, rather than running the race as individuals. The runners in a race run as individuals, and I should run as an individual, not leaning on my association with my church, men's group, denomination or whatever.

I've never heard that explanation. Does anyone else understand it that way?

[BroRog]

Do you believe that all crowns represent salvation? Incorruptible Crown (1 Corinthians 9:25); Crown of Rejoicing (1 Thessalonians 2:19); Crown of righteousness (2 Timothy 4:8); Crown of glory (1 Peter 5:4); Crown of life (Revelation 2:10). Paul referred to the Philippian believers as my joy and crown in Philippians 4:1. In Proverbs 14:18 we read that the prudent are crowned with knowledge. In Proverbs 12:4 we read that a noble wife is her husband's crown. In Revelation 4:10, we read that the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne. Also, in Revelation 19:12, we read about Jesus, His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. How does all of this fit together if crowns are simply referred to as salvation?

I'm not saying that every use of the word "crown" refers to salvation. But yes, the imperishable crown of 1Corinthians 9:25 is salvation, and so is the crown of righteousness, the crown of life, and the crown of glory. All of these highlight various aspects of salvation.