Does good parenting always matter? (Moved from FIC)

[PJW]

"Telling" a Christian they don't need to be two-faced with there faith and that they can be true to God is what many leaders in the Body of Christ say... however, is this discipling a Christian though? Leading by example is great, but most leaders in church only get to lead by example for a couple hours a week when service is going on. It's WHEN service ISN'T happening... is when leading by example will be more effective.

Discipling a Christian is MORE then just telling them they don't need to be two-faced with their faith... it's TEACHING them by the scriptures HOW not to be two-faced. Telling them it's wrong is... well, telling them it's wrong. SHOWING them WHY it's wrong and then also showing them HOW not to do the wrong... is what discipleship and MINISTERING is all about. Couple this with leading by example and you will have a WELL discipled Christian.

Take the Corinthians... in Christ and SINNING but we don't see that John has to bring a message to them as he did with 7 other churches. WHY? It's because Paul didn't tell them not to be two-faced with their faith in God. Instead he pointed out each specific fault and sin, made correction, SHOWED them how to activate the correction and instructed WHY the correction was needed. They were discipled... not simply "told" not to be two-faced.

Ya got a lot to learn bro... don't hold down a Christian who's already down due to their sinful double-minded actions by condemning them. Point out fault... SURE, then help them up with MORE than lip service by telling them to stop!! TEACH them WHY and also HOW... to stop, don't limit yourself to only telling them. Simply "telling" them something is wrong is nothing but lipservice and that is NOT discipling or ministering to ANY Christian.

Always remember, if a person is double-minded... then they are in Christ because a person who is NOT double-minded and that has BOTH feet in the world is not a Christian. Such a person in the world with BOTH feet cannot BE, double-minded. Double-minded refers ONLY to Christians who have one foot in Christ and the other in the world... HELP them...!!!!

The church is the body of Christ, there is no sin in Christ's body. If the Corinthians were sinning, they were not Christians. If they would turn from their ungodliness, then they would be accepted by Christ. They are not in Christ AND in sin.
If a man sins, he is single minded, and an enemy of God.

[Slug1]

The church is the body of Christ, there is no sin in Christ's body. If the Corinthians were sinning, they were not Christians. If they would turn from their ungodliness, then they would be accepted by Christ. They are not in Christ AND in sin.
If a man sins, he is single minded, and an enemy of God.

Read chapter 1 of 1 Cor and you will understand that they are clearly Christians! If anyone has taught you different... they are a false teacher. If you refuse to accept the scriptures due to any false teaching... all we can do in this online medium is simply show you in the scriptures that Paul declares them in Christ. It's up to you to accept this.

[Jeanne D]

PJW,
Do you remember David? God referred to him as His "beloved". He was a man after God's own heart, yet he lusted after Bathsheba, commited adultery with her and had her husband killed.
He was still a very Godly man.

What about Peter? He was one of Jesus' Apostles. He walked with Jesus , ate with Him, ministered with Him and yet when Jesus was arrested He denied knowing Him 3 times. Jesus said of him , that upon this rock He would build His church.

Neither of these Godly men were perfect, but God forgave them when they sinned and still used them in a mighty way.

If you think you're perfect, that you never sin, then I'm afraid you're only lying to yourself.

Jeanne

[Slug1]

PJW,
Do you remember David? God referred to him as His "beloved". He was a man after God's own heart, yet he lusted after Bathsheba, commited adultery with her and had her husband killed.
He was still a very Godly man.

What about Peter? He was one of Jesus' Apostles. He walked with Jesus , ate with Him, ministered with Him and yet when Jesus was arrested He denied knowing Him 3 times. Jesus said of him , that upon this rock He would build His church.

Neither of these Godly men were perfect, but God forgave them when they sinned and still used them in a mighty way.

If you think you're perfect, that you never sin, then I'm afraid you're only lying to yourself.

Jeanne

Don't forget James and John... Jesus nicknamed them "Sons of Thunder" due to their attitude of, "kill em all and let God sort them out"!!

[Warrior4God]

The fathers won't be held accountable for the child's sin, and the child will not be punished for the father's sin. True.
What the parent initially stated was that he obeyed the Proverbs scripture, and things went wrong anyway. He expected us to believe him instead of having faith that God's word IS ALWAYS right.

Alright. You tell me what I did "wrong," then. Be very specific, ok? I taught my daughters that it's wrong to lie. I taught them it's wrong to steal. I taught them it's wrong to have sex outside of marriage. I taught them to have respect for their mother and I, teachers, adults in general. We taught them manners. We taught them not to use drugs and alcohol. This was stuff we taught them before we even became Christians, by the way, and once we became Christians it was just reinforced all the more. It's not like we just let them be total hell raisers from birth to 13 and 14 and then tried to put the brakes on them when we became Christians. Here's what my daughters did despite my parental training, both as an unbeliever and as a Christian...They've lied. Many times. They've stolen. Several times. That I'm aware of, anyway. They've both had sex before marriage. Several times. At least my older daughter finally made it legal and got married last July. My daughters were disrespectful to my wife and I on more than one occasion, that's for sure. They also both talked back and were disrespectful to their teachers on more than one occasion. Again, this was all stuff that they did even though my wife and I made our standards and expectations quite clear to our daughters. So, there's a few possibilities. Either there's more to raising your kids than what gets taken from a few scriptures, that are not being correctly understood in their entirety, such as in Proverbs, or I'm completely lying about everything that I just said that I did in regards to raising my daughters. You would have to believe that I didn't teach them morals and I just let them run wild because I didn't care enough about them and I was just too lazy to raise them right. Which one do you believe it is? So, please, be very specific. What exactly did I do "wrong" in raising my daughters? I raised them with morals and lead by example. I punished them when it was needed. I loved them but I didn't spoil the crap out of them and let them get away with murder. And yet, they still did wrong things. So, if you have any enlightenment about it all, please be so kind as to share it with me, point by point, and explain their behavior. Please try not to do so with some vague general statement of, "Well, if they did 'bad' things, you weren't raising them right." That doesn't explain anything and I won't let you get off that easily.

[Lyndie]

Warrior, you didn't do anything wrong. PJW is looking at your 'so called' bad parenting(in his own mind) while ignoring his own pride. As it was said earlier, splinter, meet log. (I also thought questioning someone's salvation was against TOS?)

[Athanasius]

A minister who's wife is a pastor? Doesn't your ministry include 1 Tim 2:12?

Does your theology include more than one verse?

[PJW]

Read chapter 1 of 1 Cor and you will understand that they are clearly Christians! If anyone has taught you different... they are a false teacher. If you refuse to accept the scriptures due to any false teaching... all we can do in this online medium is simply show you in the scriptures that Paul declares them in Christ. It's up to you to accept this.

The church at Corinth was Christian, but not all the people who said they were in the church were of God.

[Slug1]

The church at Corinth was Christian, but not all the people who said they were in the church were of God.

Don't use that cop out excuse... Paul was addressing the entire Body of Christ in the Corinth region in 1 and 2 Corinthians. He was discipling those who accepted Christ and were sinning and also those who were still in need of accepting Christ.

Read 1 Cor 1 and this will be made clear to you.

If you want me to point out the specific scriptures and help you understand this truth... say the word and I'll help ya!

[PJW]

PJW,
Do you remember David? God referred to him as His "beloved". He was a man after God's own heart, yet he lusted after Bathsheba, commited adultery with her and had her husband killed.
He was still a very Godly man.

What about Peter? He was one of Jesus' Apostles. He walked with Jesus , ate with Him, ministered with Him and yet when Jesus was arrested He denied knowing Him 3 times. Jesus said of him , that upon this rock He would build His church.

Neither of these Godly men were perfect, but God forgave them when they sinned and still used them in a mighty way.

If you think you're perfect, that you never sin, then I'm afraid you're only lying to yourself.

Jeanne

Jeanne D,
David wasn't crucified, buried, and raised again with Jesus Christ. (Ro 6:3-8) David was "in the flesh", as was everyone before we were allowed to join in His suffering on His cross.(1 Peter 4:1-2)
Peter hadn't received the Holy Ghost yet, indicating a lack of repentance, when he lied 3 times. But the results of his shame was true sorrow, and "Godly sorrow worketh repentance, not to be repented of". (2 Cor 7:10)
The "rock" was the fact that Jesus was the Son of God, (Mt 16:16), and had nothing to do with whoever announced it.
You call them Godly men, but God is perfect. Those men weren't perfect. After Peter received the Holy Ghost he did no sin.
The truely repentant are NON-SINNERS. Repentance means; turn from or change. I have changed.

[PJW]

How can I tell what you did wrong? Did you follow all your own rules?

[PJW]

Lyndie,
So is the proverb of God wrong ?

[PJW]

Does your theology include more than one verse?

Yep, like "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

[PJW]

Don't use that cop out excuse... Paul was addressing the entire Body of Christ in the Corinth region in 1 and 2 Corinthians. He was discipling those who accepted Christ and were sinning and also those who were still in need of accepting Christ.

Read 1 Cor 1 and this will be made clear to you.

If you want me to point out the specific scriptures and help you understand this truth... say the word and I'll help ya!

Slug1,
You speak of truth, but seem to be defending sin in a church as a pervasive and common occurance. Why?
Jesus said you would know the truth and the truth would make you free. Then He said that whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. (Jo 8:32,34)
Will YOUR teaching make me free from servitude to sin? If it does then it is the truth.

[Athanasius]

Yep, like "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)

Excellent. One of my favourites is Acts 17:11:

11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

If you believe there is a Scriptural issue with my wife 'holding' the office of Pastor, then by all means provide a list of Scriptures with an explanation of why you believe they forbid women from the office of Pastor. You will have to put in a little more legwork than simply quoting 1 Timothy 2:12, lest either of us be accused of not knowing the Scriptures: Mark 12:24, "Jesus answered and said to them, “Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God?".