If End Times Prophecy is True......................?

[nimblewillsgrace]

If End Times Prophecy is true the why are Christians hoping for the government to save us. It looks like to me if it is God's will that there be a global government, a global currency, and an antichrist for a world ruler then Christians should be thrilled beyond measure that it could happen in our lifetime. However all I hear is how a Republican will save us, or a Democrat already has. I say bring it all on ASAP.

[quiet dove]

It isn't that it is necessarily God's will, it is what God has told us is going to happen. In other words, it is God saying to us now as He said to Israel long ago, if this is what you what and you think it is so good, and you think you can do it....here it is. It's like the old saying of giving a person enough rope to hang themselves. God has told us what will happen when men to do as they please, and He will allow it and it will prove what He has been telling us all along, we need Him, we can't do it.

[nimblewillsgrace]

It isn't that it is necessarily God's will, it is what God has told us is going to happen. In other words, it is God saying to us now as He said to Israel long ago, if this is what you what and you think it is so good, and you think you can do it....here it is. It's like the old saying of giving a person enough rope to hang themselves. God has told us what will happen when men to do as they please, and He will allow it and it will prove what He has been telling us all along, we need Him, we can't do it.

Are you suggesting that we can stop it from happening it or postponing it in some way?

[Vanderhoven7]

If End Times Prophecy is true the why are Christians hoping for the government to save us. It looks like to me if it is God's will that there be a global government, a global currency, and an antichrist for a world ruler then Christians should be thrilled beyond measure that it could happen in our lifetime. However all I hear is how a Republican will save us, or a Democrat already has. I say bring it all on ASAP.

When the end was approaching for Jerusalem and it's temple, Jesus wept over the city and it's inhabitants. Nothing could quench the fire of judgment of an evil, unrepentant generation. Jesus told the disciples to pray for mitigation of circumstances, not in winter, not on a Sabbath.

I am not a futurist..but hard economic and political times are ahead. I don't think we should look forward to them; Jesus' return, yes, but trials and suffering we should work to minimize.

Well, that's what I think anyway.

[nimblewillsgrace]

But won't Christ only come back when all this happens. Aren't we told to look forward to the return of Christ? What am I missing?

[Vanderhoven7]

But won't Christ only come back when all this happens. Aren't we told to look forward to the return of Christ? What am I missing?

Ah, but that's where my non-futuristic, partial preterist viewpoint helps. Jesus said that His parousia (Second personal coming to earth) would occur during normal times. People will be working at mills, in fields, sleeping in beds, marrying and carrying on as usual. It will come as at a time when no one is expecting or can anticipate. No insider knowledge could help one bit. That's why we have to be ready for that surprise at all times.

[nimblewillsgrace]

Ah, but that's where my non-futuristic, partial preterist viewpoint helps. Jesus said that His parousia (Second personal coming to earth) would occur during normal times. People will be working at mills, in fields, sleeping in beds, marrying and carrying on as usual. It will come as at a time when no one is expecting or can anticipate. No insider knowledge could help one bit. That's why we have to be ready for that surprise at all times.

What are the possibilities that all that is happening now is actually self fulfilled prophecy?

[DurbanDude]

But won't Christ only come back when all this happens. Aren't we told to look forward to the return of Christ? What am I missing?

Jesus said the end will not come until the gospel has been preached to all nations.

Rev 12 says that Satan falls from heaven through the testimony of the church. When Satan falls, he has this final period of 3.5 years of wrath and persecution on earth.

I believe we usher in the end times through succesfully preaching the gospel. Until then satan is accusing us in heaven, and fighting to stay in heaven. Rev 12 indicates how angry Satan is when he loses his position in heaven FORCIBLY and has to come to earth for his short final period.

This says to me the end times is our victory, and Satan's loss. We are speeding up the end, Satan is delaying the end. We have not been taught this in church with all the focus on watching the development of Satan's one world government, instead of watching the development of the worldwide gospel. I agree with you, we are leading up to a victorious climax, even if we die on the way from persecution , LOL , bring it on ASAP.

[Raybob]

Ah, but that's where my non-futuristic, partial preterist viewpoint helps. Jesus said that His parousia (Second personal coming to earth) would occur during normal times. People will be working at mills, in fields, sleeping in beds, marrying and carrying on as usual. It will come as at a time when no one is expecting or can anticipate. No insider knowledge could help one bit. That's why we have to be ready for that surprise at all times.

Amen. This "global currency" and "global government" are interpretations. There's nothing that says the same passages can't be interpreted into a symbolic spiritual sense, rather than a literal sense. If the literal, futurist interpretation is wrong and it really was a symbolic picture of the spirit world, it's possible Jesus could return today, without any global government or currency in place. It's possible. Always be ready. IMO.

[Vanderhoven7]

Amen. This "global currency" and "global government" are interpretations. There's nothing that says the same passages can't be interpreted into a symbolic spiritual sense, rather than a literal sense. If the literal, futurist interpretation is wrong and it really was a symbolic picture of the spirit world, it's possible Jesus could return today, without any global government or currency in place. It's possible. Always be ready. IMO.

Yes...it would be nice if Christians would believe Jesus when He said His second coming could and would not be anticipated. Jesus can return at any moment; it has nothing to do with the one world economy, the destruction of the Dome of the Rock (a visible witness that the Jewish religion is Messiah-less and therefore desolate), the assembling of temple stones, the breeding of the red heifer, the computer chip in the forehead and so on and so forth. All the futuristic guesswork provides less than useful material that should not affect our walk or love for Christ one iota. How many Russell's and Lindsey's and Comings do we need to further cripple our witness to the world. I know, so many have it all figured out...and nothing you say can convince them otherwise.

How about just concentrating on serving and on obedience, you know the weightier things of scripture instead of jumping all over the Bible to impregnate texts with newspaper eisegesis.

[divaD]

Yes...it would be nice if Christians would believe Jesus when He said His second coming could and would not be anticipated. Jesus can return at any moment; it has nothing to do with the one world economy, the destruction of the Dome of the Rock (a visible witness that the Jewish religion is Messiah-less and therefore desolate), the assembling of temple stones, the breeding of the red heifer, the computer chip in the forehead and so on and so forth. All the futuristic guesswork provides less than useful material that should not affect our walk or love for Christ one iota. How many Russell's and Lindsey's and Comings do we need to further cripple our witness to the world. I know, so many have it all figured out...and nothing you say can convince them otherwise.

How about just concentrating on serving and on obedience, you know the weightier things of scripture instead of jumping all over the Bible to impregnate texts with newspaper eisegesis.

It's ridiculous to think that Jesus could return before certain prophecies get fulfilled first. That would make all those prophecies false, if their fulfillments were to precede the 2nd coming, but never got fulfilled before the 2nd coming.

[divaD]

Satan is delaying the end.

How could satan delay the end? I thought God was the one who alone was sovereign.

[Raybob]

It's ridiculous to think that Jesus could return before certain prophecies get fulfilled first. That would make all those prophecies false, if their fulfillments were to precede the 2nd coming, but never got fulfilled before the 2nd coming.

It would only make interpretations of prophecy be false, not the actual prophecies themselves. I'm ready to see Him right now and hope all my 'interpretations' are wrong.

[Vanderhoven7]

It would only make interpretations of prophecy be false, not the actual prophecies themselves. I'm ready to see Him right now and hope all my 'interpretations' are wrong.

Yes! Put another way:
How can Jesus come back unless He satisfies my interpretation of prophetic events as I mesh Daniel and Ezekiel with Revelation and I Thessalonians with Matthew 24 and the abomination of desolation?

People in past centuries have done the same kind of "interpreting" and predicting....and it's amounted to nothing but a waste of time and discredit to Christianity. We should be preaching the gospel, and living the life of faith, not speculation. It is not for us to pretend to know the times and seasons....and then to promote them as gospel. You don't find reputable Bible scholars promoting speculation for a reason.

[Raybob]

...We should be preaching the gospel, and living the life of faith, not speculation. It is not for us to pretend to know the times and seasons....and then to promote them as gospel. You don't find reputable Bible scholars promoting speculation for a reason.

Amen! Preach it brother!