Veteran
I certainly agree that we should not claim to know anything except Christ and Him Crucified. I was just wondering why so many Christians were trying to stop something that they believed was inevitable according to God's word. Its kinda like death to me, so many of us are threatened with the very thing that we believe will put in His direct presence.
fellow servant
Thrilled that the beast should murder a million Christians? I don't think so.Originally Posted by nimblewillsgrace
Thrilled that Christ should come again? OK. But, how many persons that you know, have not been converted?
Do you know that you will see them in hell?
Are you ready for that?
GAL 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
As opposed to the bad man that does nothing?
AMOS 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;
Road less travelled
He's delaying the end by fighting to stay in heaven (Rev 12) as our accuser. (in Rev 12 you do not see Satan trying desperately to get to earth to cause wrath)
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
He's fighting the spread of the gospel, and is overcome by the spread of the gospel (our testimony). Its our job to push through and get the job finalised. Its nearly done, but we need to complete the job before Jesus can come again.
2 Cor 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”[a] made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ. But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed
Satan blinds the unbelievers, persecutes and presses and perplexes Christians even though he knows the end will come faster when the gospel is preached. We win this war. We should not distract ourselves that this is a political war and then try to prevent the power of the one world government, this will not change anything. We have to preach the gospel and then the end will come, simple as that. We rush the end, Satan hinders the end.
2 Peter 3:1 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Mark 13:10
And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.
Mark 16:15
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
By the very attempt of stopping the spread of Islam politically and militarily by using USA taxpayers money, this could be helping the Western world set up the antichrist. Unless we understand the political agenda perfectly through God's eyes, its so easy to be on the wrong side, therefore our agenda should be purely the gospel.
Road less travelled
Rev 12 regards the moment when Satan is thrown out of heaven to cause great wrath and persecution on earth as a great victory to be celebrated in heaven!
I will celebrate that tribulation period because I know Jesus is coming soon and Satan has a short period, even if I die during that time. I probably will die then before Jesus comes, but I'm not too concerned about that little detail.
12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I live here!
It would only make interpretations of prophecy be false, not the actual prophecies themselves. I'm ready to see Him right now and hope all my 'interpretations' are wrong.
I see the logic in this believe it or not. That's what it would have to mean if Jesus returned any time today for example...meaning millions of us misinterpreted hundreds of Scriptures. But how could that many people be that wrong? Are we to believe that only a handful of all the Christians worldwide interpret the Scriptures correctly, while the other millions are way way off?
Regular Contributor
***
Hi DivaD,
End time prognosticating, to be in the know as to what will happen next, sells books and feeds self importance. It's all speculation. The point is....what's it to us to be in the know? I know of one group, "the Body" that bought farm land and whisked city Christians out west to start preparing for the tribulation. Thousands were caught up in it. As usual, it all came to nothing. But some are still out there farming. There is no point to puzzling out the details and knowing when this and that will happen and what will come next.
OK, what if I'm wrong...and all I have been doing is making sure I'm ready for his second coming, walking in the Spirit and serving others. What will I have missed? God has promised to meet our needs whatever happens as long as our eyes are on Him.
Jesus didn't tell us to puzzle it all together and teach others what is next on God's agenda. But He did tell us to be ready, to walk holy, because the timing cannot be anticipated.
Well, that's my take. And if I'm wrong, I win. ;o)
Veteran
You act as if God is not in control. Don't you think He knows? And Why in the Heck would I see people in Hell? Do you Trust God to do what is best for His creation?
fellow servant
I know that God is in control.
You don't know that Heaven and hell can see each other?
LK 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
LK 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
LK 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
LK 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
LK 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
GAL 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
As opposed to the bad man that does nothing?
AMOS 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;
Senior Member
While I share the "maranatha" sentiment, we are told that no man knows the hour. Therefore we have to deal with this day, and this day alone, and do so pragmatically. As Jesus said, tomorrow will bring its own troubles so we find ourselves seeking to make, hopefully with prayerfulness, the wisest decisions we can for today's troubles.
Veteran
Do you take that parable literally? If so, we go to Abraham and not Jesus. Our torment could be quenched with one drop of water. And we are separated based on socioeconomic status. How happy would you be watching people suffer in Hades.
Senior Member
Hi nimblewillsgrace.
This is just a small glimpse of just one of many,’ time of the end’ timed events. There is will be a vile person that is part of those of the abomination of desolation army setup. But first let me begin with Matthew 24.
Within Matthew 24: the question was asked about the timing of His second coming etc.
Matthew 24: 3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
As our LORD progressed answering He mentioned, in verse 15 an event which has a time span limitation upon it of 1290 days concerning the prophet Daniel, placing a portion of chapter 24 to within the time of the end time span, ending at the second coming of Christ.
Daniel 11: 21. “And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Daniel 11: 31. “And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.”
Daniel12: 11. “And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”
Matthew, chapter 24: verse, 15. “ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,” (whoso readeth, let him understand
Verse. 16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
How many days from verse 15 to verses 29 – 31? The answer is 1290 days according to Daniel 12: 11.
Matthew 24: 29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24: 30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24: 31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Hope this is a help in answering some of your question.
PC
fellow servant
I think my joy at being allowed into Heaven would overwhelm any bad view.
Still, we don't know when Lazarus died.
We have no guidance that any parable lacks faithfulness to history.
There is no evidence that there was a Jesus to be delivered to, at least in Heaven, at that time.
We have no reason to call Abraham poor.
Anyone in hell is more qualified to guess exactly how many drops of water would quench hells torment.
GAL 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
MT 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
As opposed to the bad man that does nothing?
AMOS 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;
What, me worry?
You are talking about things that exist while this earth exists. When Jesus returns, this earth will burn and melt. We are looking for a new heaven and new earth after His return. It will be a world unlike anything we can imagine. We know that 'hell' as it exists today, will be thrown in a lake of fire for ever and ever.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Rev 20:14-15)
Veteran
Good first point. I am not looking for government to save me or prevent me from being attacked. Hoping that the government will protect one is like taking a savage dog in the advanced stages of rabies for a walk hoping it will protect you from robbers. The most likely source of an attack upon Christians will be from government.
Your second point is not good. No one should rejoice in evil happening. Even when one knows that the end times evil points to a soon return of the Messiah Jesus. No one stands next to a woman going through the pain of child birth smiling and getting joy out of see her in pain.
Amos 5
18 Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good is the day of the LORD to you? It will be darkness, and not light.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Regular Contributor
***
Hi Dan,
This is kinda off topic, but I'll respond anyway.
The key to interpreting "The Rich Man and Lazarus" is determining its literary form. The literary form is not "historical narration", nor is it "parable". Instead, I see it is a type of satire called "parody".
That Jesus did employ satire at times is quite evident in the gospels. Examples of this include, Matthew 9:13, where Jesus exempts the Pharisees from His redemptive plan because He only came for sinners, not “the righteous” and again in Luke 13:13 where Jesus ironically expresses that prophets cannot possibly perish anywhere except in Jerusalem. Also in Matthew 22:23-33, Jesus silences the Sadducees on the question of the resurrection by expanding upon the nature of angels (verse 30). I don’t think for a moment that Jesus was seriously trying to convince the Sadducees of something they did not believe in by elaborating upon something else they equally dismissed as nonexistent.
In order to establish that the literary form of Lazarus and the Rich Man is satire, or more particularly, a parody, there must be clear evidence that:
a. A common or "well known story line is being imitated".
b. irony is employed; that the story’s outcome is changed such
that there is clear “incongruity between the actual result
of a sequence of events and the expected result”
c. the unexpected results "highlight human stupidity" or corruption.
d. "a comic end is served", the purpose of which is to cause listeners
"to detach sympathies from certain people (groups), to judge their
actions and to see the absurdity in their behavior.."
It is not difficult to demonstrate that The Rich Man and Lazarus account satisfies
these criteria and fits the mold of parody rather nicely.
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