loving a sociopath?

[In Dust and Ashes]

Well, it's starting to look like a friend of mine (and sister of my best friend) is a sociopath: She has a long history of manipulating people to get her way, lies about so much that none of us ever get the same account of her day, and doesn't seem to care about how anyone else feels about anything. She just does what she wants. It's gotten to the point where she's destroyed her marriage, lies about what she does every night, and may or may not be taking drugs. Her character has been getting progressively more shady over the last several months. Tonight I found out that she told her parents she was with me when she definitely was not.

I've been skimming through websites about how to deal with sociopaths. I know that they're largely incurable by anything that doctors have found. Everything I've read just says "stay away!" or "break ties and warn others!" I don't want to do that with her. I don't believe that God wants me to do that to her.

What do Christian counselors suggest for dealing with sociopaths?

[Vhayes]

Instead of honing in on sociopaths, try expanding a bit. Check out narcissists.

My advice? Pray. No one can help someone who does not want to be helped. Pray that this persons heart and mind will be open to knowing the Lord.

[In Dust and Ashes]

Do you have any reliable websites about narcissism? I'm reading the Picture of Dorian Gray right now, but I don't know if that'll really help much.

I will definitely continue to pray. If things are really as we suspect they are, then she could be heading for danger quick. She says she's a christian and I've counted her as one before, but she's definitely not living out her salvation.

[Vhayes]

Do you have any reliable websites about narcissism? I'm reading the Picture of Dorian Gray right now, but I don't know if that'll really help much.

I will definitely continue to pray. If things are really as we suspect they are, then she could be heading for danger quick. She says she's a christian and I've counted her as one before, but she's definitely not living out her salvation.

Almost any reputable medical site should have a section on the disorder.

Narcissists are seldom Christian. In their world, the WHOLE world is all about them. I've only dealt with one that I am positive IS a certifiable narcissist but I never, ever want to deal with that again if I don't have to.

[In Dust and Ashes]

I looked it up on medicine net. It's not sounding like her. She doesn't build herself up in front of others. She tears herself down. She plays herself to be the victim of everything and thrives on pity. She has a history of cutting herself, doing drugs, and other destructive behavior.

What has convinced me that she's a sociopath are these three things:
She's manipulative (always playing the victim or flattering others to get what she wants)
She's a pathological liar
And she has no empathy towards others. She sloughs off other people's emotions as if they don't mean anything. Or, she'll turn it back around so that whatever negative emotion you feel is somehow "hurting" her and then she's the victim again.

[Vhayes]

Maybe. I simply don't know.

Has she been to a professional? The cutting would certainly warrant her seeking medical advice. Again, I would suggest you pray for her and that you ask specifically for God to intervene in her life.

[In Dust and Ashes]

She's been to a counselor a few times. Never consistently or for prolonged periods of time. Her family has been trying to get her to go again, but she refuses to. She knows she has issues, though I don't think she'd ever admit to be manipulative. She has been on various drugs before for things like ADD, which did help make her a more level and reliable person until she stopped taking it. I don't know exactly why she wont go back to counseling. It may have something to do with a bad counseling experience. But even if she did go back to counseling, if she is in fact a sociopath, there isn't much they can do about it. And being a sociopath would make it very difficult to treat the other problems she has because she lies and hides EVERYTHING.

I'm just looking for proactive ways that I can continue to be in her life. It's gotten to the point where I dread having to be anywhere near her because I just don't know what to say. I don't believe anything she says anymore, I'm constantly suspicious and worried, and now she's dragging me into her web of lies by using me as an alibi.

[In Dust and Ashes]

Honestly, I think a lot of this is spiritual. Her whole body is breaking down with strange problems like a paralyzed stomach and thyroid issues. The way her marriage fell apart was jaw-dropping and her recent behavior is scary. So prayer is definitely my number one line of offense.

[jayne]

Unless you are a medical professional, I would hold off on the diagnosing of her. Compulsive lying, extreme manipulation, and showing no empathy or a fake empathy for others can indicate sociopathic tendencies and it could also indicate a host of other things.

I think that you would be of better service to her to pray for her daily and incorporate others to pray for her. You could seek out a medical expert in the field of interventions and have this person moderate a group intervention, but I would never, myself, try to conduct one on my own. Without professional help, it would be like a group of sincere and concerned gazelles trying to hold an intervention and trying to get a lion to stop being a carnivore.

She needs professional attention. And no one can force her to seek it or take it. She has to want to.

Right now, your best bet is prayer and joining forces with her friends and family in finding the best way for her to get help from professionals.

[Indueseason]

She needs to be diagnosed by a psychiatrist because the things you mention could fall under a number of mental health illnesses. You are right that little can be done to treat her if she is indeed a socio path. This is a personality disorder, not a sickness such as depression or acrophobia. It is a lifelong condition according to the professionals, but we Christians know that Jesus can create a new person in her! What man can't do,God can,so pray pray pray.

I'm sure she wouldn't have liked the counselling,because the counsellor would have called her out on her manipulative behaviour, self pity, lying etc. Also,as Vhayes said previous, if she doesn't want help, then no one can help her. She must see and dislike the problem first, then the door might be open to further help.

You need to pray for yourself too,because you are upset by her behaviour. You know you cannot help her, while you feel this way. So take a couple of steps back, and spend time with God. Let Him heal your hurts, and work on your friend. At the right time, I'm sure He'll use you.

blessings to you

[Dani H]

When people act out, a good question to ask is "why?"

Ultimately this is an issue between this young lady and God. So how you can love her, is on your knees praying for God to get a hold of her and deal with her until she is free. Because if it wasn't for God, where would any of us be? I used to be stuck on myself and caught in my own web of lies. Welcome to being lost without even knowing you're lost. But, there is still a Savior around whose power hasn't diminished any and who is quite capable of saving us from sin, and from ourselves. He is able. Saving the lost is somewhat of a specialty of His, if the Bible is to be believed.

[In Dust and Ashes]

I don't mean to pigeon hole her into a diagnosis. I know that there can be all kinds of other things going on. And I am praying.

But here's my logic and this is what I need advice on:
I have to interact with her.
She either is a sociopath or she isn't.
If she is, then what I say to her or do around her can be highly detrimental to us both.
If she isn't a sociopath then I'm even more lost as to how to handle her.
She's already hurt a lot of people and is cutting others out of her life (including her entire family) because none of us knows the right thing to do or say. I think we've just established that how we were trying to confront her in her lies was pushing her away and making things worse. She wont open up to any of us now; wont listen to us; and wont trust us.
Therefore, knowing the right way to handle her is imperative to not losing her completely!

Prayer is always my first response, but I do have to actually talk to her. And I don't want to screw this up anymore than it is.

[Indueseason]

We can't tell you how to talk to her, we don't know her like you do. What is it you want to say to her? That her behaviour is a problem to herself, to others, or both. Do you want to witness to her? Don't take all of this on your own shoulders, it's far too big for you.Ask God what He would have you say or do, ask God to protect her from herself. Let Him lead you.

blessings to you

[In Dust and Ashes]

No, no. I'm talking about little daily things. Like when we get together to play cards and she's telling a sob story about how the world is against her. Or When she shows up late for something and tells a pack of lies about why she's late when I already know why she's late. Or when I'm supposed to give her 75 dollars so she can purchase a present that we're collaborating on. Should I even trust her with that?

[Dani H]

Well you don't want to ask me for advice in how to talk to people because I usually choose the direct route and set my boundaries so there's no question. That way nobody can ever say they weren't told.

I also firmly believe in maintaining my own relationships with people and not taking on other people's offenses. I'm my own person and can make my own decisions (unless there's kids involved and/or my involvement is going to directly lead to others getting hurt, in which case it's a no-no and mama bear gets protective).

There you go.

You're either going to act in faith and trust God, or you let your fear of "losing this person" (what does that mean, anyway?? God don't lose people) continually undermine any faith-based relationship you may hope to have with this woman.

Bottom line: She is an adult. You are a believer, also an adult. You, because of your professed faith in Christ, have His standards to live by. Those standards include speaking the truth in love. Because faith always acts through love. And love, includes letting people know when they're being hurtful to others and to themselves and letting them know where they stand. So tell her you're not going to be used as a cover for her lying alibis and to keep you out of her self-destructive drama. Don't give her money; go shopping with her so you have control over how your money gets spent. Boundaries. Set them, stick with them. She's a pusher so she needs them, and they have to be firm.

If she cuts ties cause she don't like them, it'll be HER decision. You cannot make her decisions for her. You can only make your decisions and obey God in how to treat other people. If she leaves, she leaves. She's her own woman and has the right to. As do you. All relationships are ultimately based on choices. We can either choose to have successful relationships with other people by treating them right, or we can be abusive and alienating in which case we've no right to complain when people move on and choose relationships where they're going to be treated properly. Sometimes you gotta drop people on their tushies long enough and far enough and hard enough for them to wake up and realize "oh hey, maybe I'm the problem here and not everyone else." If she's bent on tearing down all of her relationships around herself, then be there for your friend, and keep the sister at arm's length until she can get over herself and act like a normal human being.