HS Baptism by Jesus (Matt 3:11) and HS Baptism by the HS (1 Cor12:13)

[Slug1]

You mean where you addressed intentionally handling snakes? Paul was unharmed in Acts 28 because he was on a gospel mission and was accidentally bit? If while teaching on this thread you reached for a soft drink and accidentally drank poison would you be unharmed?

If God has a purpose in surviving, then yes. Based on scripture and that situation with Paul, I have no doubt a person would survive.

It's the abuse of scripture and the spirit of error leading people INTO testing the scriptures as purposely consuming poison, that we have a problem.

Why is it testing God to intentionally handle snakes or intentionally drink poison, expecting to be unharmed, but it is not testing God to intentionally lay hands on the sick, expecting them to be healed as Paul did in Acts 28:8-9?

While I answered a portion of this already... Christians are advised by scriptures to GO to their elders to be anointed in oil and hands laid on them. In obedience many are healed this way. I've stopped counting the healings that God has done over the years. If a person is LED by the Holy Spirit as Paul was LED by the Holy Spirit, then it's not about TESTING God in the ATTEMPTING of laying on of hands to see if it works. So if in such a situation even today, it's more about OBEDIENCE to what the Holy Spirit is prompting. Without the LEADING, failure is the most likely result, in the case with poison... death. As for healing, no healing happens.

[WITDNM]

If God has a purpose in surviving, then yes. Based on scripture and that situation with Paul, I have no doubt a person would survive.

It's the abuse of scripture and the spirit of error leading people INTO testing the scriptures as purposely consuming poison, that we have a problem.

While I answered a portion of this already... Christians are advised by scriptures to GO to their elders to be anointed in oil and hands laid on them. In obedience many are healed this way. I've stopped counting the healings that God has done over the years. If a person is LED by the Holy Spirit as Paul was LED by the Holy Spirit, then it's not about TESTING God in the ATTEMPTING of laying on of hands to see if it works. So if in such a situation even today, it's more about OBEDIENCE to what the Holy Spirit is prompting. Without the LEADING, failure is the most likely result, in the case with poison... death. As for healing, no healing happens.

Okay, the Spirit leads = healing, tongues, demons cast out, etc. The Spirit does not lead = failures. Mark 16:20 says the Lord confirmed the word through the accompanying signs. Hebrews 2:3-4 says basically the same thing. Mormons claim these same signs yet teach that God (Heavenly Father) is not eternal and in fact was once a man. That Jesus is not eternal but the spirit child of Heavenly Father and some Heavenly Mother. The Christian Scientists claim the signs and teach there is no such thing as sin and pain and death. Catholics also claim some of these signs. How do we sort this out?

[Slug1]

Okay, the Spirit leads = healing, tongues, demons cast out, etc. The Spirit does not lead = failures. Mark 16:20 says the Lord confirmed the word through the accompanying signs. Hebrews 2:3-4 says basically the same thing. Mormons claim these same signs yet teach that God (Heavenly Father) is not eternal and in fact was once a man. That Jesus is not eternal but the spirit child of Heavenly Father and some Heavenly Mother. The Christian Scientists claim the signs and teach there is no such thing as sin and pain and death. Catholics also claim some of these signs. How do we sort this out?

We don't... unless God is using you to sort that stuff out and He'll then empower you as a vessel to effectively sort it out.

Is your issue with God and Him using Christians in supernatural ways these days? Or is your issue with the comfort zones in which man wants to be so they create denominations that say what God can and can't do and sit comfortably in the pews where God isn't believed except in what man wants to believe according to their doctrinal tenants, rituals, and traditions?

One single baptism of the Holy Spirit in such a church would cure their lack of belief but as I've stated, if they are so hardened in their unbelief and God will thus, not be glorified when even a single person is baptized in the Holy Spirit and they begin to speak in tongues... seems that God will not do such a blessing... due to their unbelief.

[Boo]

I think the only issue I have so far is that it is against scripture to claim that I must speak in tongues to prove that the Holy Spirit has empowered me to serve God as He has chosen. Paul already clarified that "not all speak in tongues."

Way too many people claim that they do and imitate that gift to do things that it was never intended to do. Paul tried to correct that problem in Corinth and was unsuccessful. The problem still exists today.

[WITDNM]

We don't... unless God is using you to sort that stuff out and He'll then empower you as a vessel to effectively sort it out.

Is your issue with God and Him using Christians in supernatural ways these days? Or is your issue with the comfort zones in which man wants to be so they create denominations that say what God can and can't do and sit comfortably in the pews where God isn't believed except in what man wants to believe according to their doctrinal tenants, rituals, and traditions?

One single baptism of the Holy Spirit in such a church would cure their lack of belief but as I've stated, if they are so hardened in their unbelief and God will thus, not be glorified when even a single person is baptized in the Holy Spirit and they begin to speak in tongues... seems that God will not do such a blessing... due to their unbelief.

I have no issue with God. He can take one of my ribs and make a woman if He wants to. What I have issue with is men who claim to being used in a supernatural way but in fact, they don't love love the truth, they have been sent a strong delusion and believe and teach lies. They have been deceived by the lying signs and wonders of Satan.

We have to sort this out. We have plenty of scriptures that tell us to. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good I Thes 5:21. whatsoever things are true, etc. Phil 4:8. Those who believe and teach lies will be condemned.

The Mormans claim signs. The Mormans claim to have a Prophet. Do you listen to the Morman Prophet. The Catholics claim signs. They claim to have a saint who could fly, Joseph of Cupertino. They claim to have a Prophet. Do you listen to the Catholic Prophet?

[WITDNM]

I think the only issue I have so far is that it is against scripture to claim that I must speak in tongues to prove that the Holy Spirit has empowered me to serve God as He has chosen. Paul already clarified that "not all speak in tongues."

Way too many people claim that they do and imitate that gift to do things that it was never intended to do. Paul tried to correct that problem in Corinth and was unsuccessful. The problem still exists today.

Yes, the Corinthians had all kinds of gifts. They were being used in a supernatural way, but so what? The church at Corinth was a mess. They were carnal minded. They were proud of the fornicator among them. They were suing each other in court. They may have been involved in worldly wisdom and idolatry. They were improperly observing the Lord's Supper.

[Slug1]

I think the only issue I have so far is that it is against scripture to claim that I must speak in tongues to prove that the Holy Spirit has empowered me to serve God as He has chosen. Paul already clarified that "not all speak in tongues."

Way too many people claim that they do and imitate that gift to do things that it was never intended to do. Paul tried to correct that problem in Corinth and was unsuccessful. The problem still exists today.

That was only another "one" of my issues way back, so... Hooah!!

As the Holy Spirit was ministering to me during that period of being freed from doctrine... those in the Body of Christ who understand the context of the scriptures KNOW that such a belief and in worse cases, such "doctrine" that a person MUST first speak in tongues for them to "prove" they are "in " Christ and will be saved... IS FALSE.

Now... I held this against God, this issue was just another block between me and surrendering to God. When the Holy Spirit was ministering to me during that period of time, He called that problem simply what it was... DISTRACTION. Just as the mess with snake handlers is a DISTRACTION. I'm about to reply to WITDM's posts... just as ANY false sign/wonder or DISTORTION of the truth of God's Word is a DISTRACTION.

Distraction's that satan PUT'S before people to keep them away from the truth of God's Word. This distraction works in two ways:

1) Those bound and led by the false doctrine, beliefs, or actual false signs/wonders... will not truly be having the relationship that God wants to have. Some are so deep, they really aren't having any relationship with God. The Bible warns us of all this.

2) Those who are not believing false doctrine, do not believe in the false signs/wonders but spend their time holding their "ISSUE" with such topics... between themselves and God. They are not willing to be completely free in the Spirit and ALLOW the Holy Spirit to move them in even supernatural way ACCORDING to the will of God because OTHER people are DISTRACTING them with their ABUSE of, LACK OF LOVE of, FALSE BELIEFS of... etc.

Seems that this #2 is the situation with both you and WITDM.

Basically as the Holy Spirit walked me through all the scriptures, as He allowed me to look INTO my own heart and reveal to me the blocks that even I was responsible for... the blocks I was responsible for the removal of was to STOP allowing the faults, mistakes, problems, misunderstandings, etc of OTHER's out there in the world to be blocks between myself and God. I was the one to remove those blocks... the supernatural help by the Holy Spirit was to teach me correctly and to literally SHOW me, open my eyes to HOW these blocks were actually set there to DISTRACT me from God.

[Slug1]

I have no issue with God. He can take one of my ribs and make a woman if He wants to. What I have issue with is men who claim to being used in a supernatural way but in fact, they don't love love the truth, they have been sent a strong delusion and believe and teach lies. They have been deceived by the lying signs and wonders of Satan.

We have to sort this out. We have plenty of scriptures that tell us to. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good I Thes 5:21. whatsoever things are true, etc. Phil 4:8. Those who believe and teach lies will be condemned.

The Mormans claim signs. The Mormans claim to have a Prophet. Do you listen to the Morman Prophet. The Catholics claim signs. They claim to have a saint who could fly, Joseph of Cupertino. They claim to have a Prophet. Do you listen to the Catholic Prophet?

Yes, the Corinthians had all kinds of gifts. They were being used in a supernatural way, but so what? The church at Corinth was a mess. They were carnal minded. They were proud of the fornicator among them. They were suing each other in court. They may have been involved in worldly wisdom and idolatry. They were improperly observing the Lord's Supper.

I just replied to Boo above this post and it addresses most of your two posts here.

The problem with the Corinthians continues today... no love and abusive use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit SPECIFICALLY the proper order of the exercising of the gift of tongues.

So, you gonna allow this problem that OTHER people have to be an issue and a distraction concerning the relationship YOU have with God?

Paul didn't... he spelled it out to the Corinthians that they had problems, he spelled out WHAT the problems were and commenced to WHOOP them into shape with corrective instruction.

Did this issue he had with them hinder his relationship with God in anyway? Did this stop his speaking in, praying in, singing in tongues?

Nope.

As for listening to prophets... sure. The Bible tells us to listen to prophets and satan KNOWS that the Body of Christ is instructed to listen to prophets so this is WHY he exploits this and produces SO many "false" prophets. Then he confuses the Body of Christ with doctrines that set's the Body of Christ up for failure and causes SUCH distraction that when a REAL prophet of God speaks... all the Body of Christ thinks about is all the FALSE stuff and they DON'T listen to what God is saying through His real prophets.

You see, while many in the Body of Christ say they KNOW God... DO THEY REALLY? If a false prophet speaks and a real prophet of God speaks... MOST of the Body of Christ will be confused, fearful, unbelieving of BOTH prophetic words... WHY?

I'll tell you why... because Christians who SAY they KNOW God, don't even KNOW how to listen to His voice. They don't know HOW to test the "spirits". They don't know HOW to seek for confirmation... WHY?

This is because many are too busy being distracted by what satan has setup as blocks and MANY in the Body of Christ are too busy having issues with these distractions.

You asked... how are we to sort this all out... I have more to that answer. It begins with SORTING ourselves out first. When any given person submits to the work that the Holy Spirit actually DOES in themselves and they work through all that is IN THEMSELVES that hinders themselves and they are at a point where the Holy Spirit can move them ANYWAY He needs, when they are responsive to any and ALL promptings that He gives them... they are "sorted" out themselves and THEN, the Holy Spirit can utilize them to SORT out others.

[WITDNM]

That was only another "one" of my issues way back, so... Hooah!!

As the Holy Spirit was ministering to me during that period of being freed from doctrine... those in the Body of Christ who understand the context of the scriptures KNOW that such a belief and in worse cases, such "doctrine" that a person MUST first speak in tongues for them to "prove" they are "in " Christ and will be saved... IS FALSE.

Now... I held this against God, this issue was just another block between me and surrendering to God. When the Holy Spirit was ministering to me during that period of time, He called that problem simply what it was... DISTRACTION. Just as the mess with snake handlers is a DISTRACTION. I'm about to reply to WITDM's posts... just as ANY false sign/wonder or DISTORTION of the truth of God's Word is a DISTRACTION.

Distraction's that satan PUT'S before people to keep them away from the truth of God's Word. This distraction works in two ways:

1) Those bound and led by the false doctrine, beliefs, or actual false signs/wonders... will not truly be having the relationship that God wants to have. Some are so deep, they really aren't having any relationship with God. The Bible warns us of all this.

2) Those who are not believing false doctrine, do not believe in the false signs/wonders but spend their time holding their "ISSUE" with such topics... between themselves and God. They are not willing to be completely free in the Spirit and ALLOW the Holy Spirit to move them in even supernatural way ACCORDING to the will of God because OTHER people are DISTRACTING them with their ABUSE of, LACK OF LOVE of, FALSE BELIEFS of... etc.

Seems that this #2 is the situation with both you and WITDM.

Basically as the Holy Spirit walked me through all the scriptures, as He allowed me to look INTO my own heart and reveal to me the blocks that even I was responsible for... the blocks I was responsible for the removal of was to STOP allowing the faults, mistakes, problems, misunderstandings, etc of OTHER's out there in the world to be blocks between myself and God. I was the one to remove those blocks... the supernatural help by the Holy Spirit was to teach me correctly and to literally SHOW me, open my eyes to HOW these blocks were actually set there to DISTRACT me from God.

Slug, What you say is very similar to what the Mormons tell me. It is interesting that for #1 you end with, "The Bible warns us of all this". For #2, which you believe is the situation Boo and I are in, you don't.

Obviously, you believe you have something that Boo and I do not have. Do you have something that Boo and I need? Are you somehow more spiritual, or more mature, or closer to God, than Boo and I. As pointed out earlier, the Corinthians had what you believe you have but did that make them closer to God? Did that make them spiritually minded or mature?

God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness 2 Peter 1:3 and All scripture is able to make us complete and equipped for every good work 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

As Boo mentioned earlier if prophets are among us, their stuff needs to be written down, making more scripture just like the Mormons do.

[Slug1]

Slug, What you say is very similar to what the Mormons tell me. It is interesting that for #1 you end with, "The Bible warns us of all this". For #2, which you believe is the situation Boo and I are in, you don't.

Obviously, you believe you have something that Boo and I do not have. Do you have something that Boo and I need? Are you somehow more spiritual, or more mature, or closer to God, than Boo and I. As pointed out earlier, the Corinthians had what you believe you have but did that make them closer to God? Did that make them spiritually minded or mature?

God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness 2 Peter 1:3 and All scripture is able to make us complete and equipped for every good work 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

As Boo mentioned earlier if prophets are among us, their stuff needs to be written down, making more scripture just like the Mormons do.

No... I explained that a prophetic word has nothing to do with NEW scriptures.

Yes, the Mormon's have produced new scripture and/or changed present scriptures to fit their cult... what does that have to do with anyone in the Body of Christ and their PERSONAL relationship with Christ?

Distraction, that is all that is and for those who believe the Mormon faith... have a relationship with "what" they believe in. Those who believe the Christian faith... have a relationship with "WHO" they believe in. So, WHY does any Christian allow this Mormon or any of the other examples of falsehoods you raised, to distract them from their personal relationship with Christ?

So, this post of yours just shows me that you are not really reading through this thread because I addressed what prophecy is, and I made it CLEAR that is it NOT what you just stated in this post. So I ask... please read through the thread.

To assist you, here is a quote:

As you can understand, based on the scriptures and the situation of David's sin and Nathan bringing that word of edification TO HIM from God... when prophets do this today, this is supported by the scriptures. The prophet who came to me and spoke to me and brought me the message God had for me about my sin way back when... no scripture is being "rewritten, added to, changed, etc. Those who DENY the prophetic gift of the Holy Spirit SIMPLY SAY that any prophetic word given is altering scripture... it's not. Not the REAL DEAL, Holy Spirit led kind. There are MANY false prophets, we're warned about this in the Bible as well and when one speaks and it does ADD to or change scripture, or simply is against scripture... well, such a test against scripture shows such prophetic words are FALSE. Also, if a timeline is given and the timeline fails... that means the prophetic word fails the test and is deemed FALSE.

Momon's and many other false faith's rewrite scripture at the WORSE or at the least, ALTER scripture to fit their faith... this is showing the Body of Christ that such faith(s) are FALSE.

I do not agree with you concerning that I advocate (say similar things) Momonism... your words misconstrue what I posted. If you'd read all that is posted throughout this thread, you'd see how your comments misconstrue.

So...

Obviously, you believe you have something that Boo and I do not have.

Here is another example of misconstruing my words.

Do you have something that Boo and I need?

What does this question mean?

Are you somehow more spiritual, or more mature, or closer to God, than Boo and I.

NO and to assume that I am or that I'm saying I am... is misconstruing my words.

As pointed out earlier, the Corinthians had what you believe you have but did that make them closer to God?

I'm lost on this one... explain please.

Did that make them spiritually minded or mature?

Did what make them spiritually minded or mature?

As Boo mentioned earlier if prophets are among us, their stuff needs to be written down, making more scripture just like the Mormons do.

If you are sinning secretly and a prophet comes up to you and wrote down what your sin is and God is displeased and is grieved and only true repentance will free you of this sin... are you saying that this is "new" scripture?

The Bible says this is called... edification. NOT new scripture.

[WITDNM]

I agree, prophets did as Nathan did with David, but prophets also wrote scripture, 2 Peter 1:20-21

[Slug1]

I agree, prophets did as Nathan did with David, but prophets also wrote scripture, 2 Peter 1:20-21

Ok... but today, we operate in the Holy Spirit "gift" of Prophecy. The scriptures define this as a message for the EDIFICATION of the Body of Christ. The operation of this gift has nothing to do with any re-writing of scripture or changing of scripture. If any prophet even ATTEMPTED to re-write scripture (like the example we have today with John Smith and the Mormon "bible")... prime example of EXACTLY what the Bible warns us about in such scriptures as 2 Peter 1. There is NO more writing as in what is to be scriptures.

Now... am I still advocating Mormonism because I "say" the same thing they say concerning being warned about false prophets?

The tactic they use is the SAME tactic satan used when Jesus was in the desert. It's easily recognizable... our job is to DISCERN, TO TEST the spirits and to simply BALANCE anything that is said by ANY teacher and/or prophet... WITH the Word of God.

If what is spoken adds to = False

If what is spoken changes = False

If what is spoken is against = False

Now get this... there CAN be a prophetic word of edification spoken and due to a listener's MISunderstanding of scripture or their personal UNacceptance of scriptures... they will deem a prophetic word as FALSE.

Well, this is ANOTHER problem within the Body of Christ today as well.

Anyone who has a misunderstanding of scripture and believes some sign gifts are ended will AUTOMATICALLY deem ALL prophetic words of edification as False.

This is EXACTLY what satan wants... so the Body of Christ cannot be edified when a prophet of God speaks edification when they are given a message from God. Many doctrines, many rituals, many traditions found out there in the world that are also inspired by satan, are some of the "method(s)" he uses to set all this up.

And you want to know what the Holy Spirit can do to help the Body of Christ to overcome what satan wants?

Is after a person is IN Christ... also "receive" the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with the supernatural evidence of speaking in tongues and such a Christian has NO more fear of the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit upon the Body of Christ. Such a Christian has NO more confusion about the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit upon the Body of Christ. Such a Christian will speak boldly, praise boldly, speak boldly... wait, I posted that already... worship boldly EVEN on a city street in the middle of downtown because satan cannot make them question, cannot make them fear, cannot make then confused anymore.

See... it's about "receiving" and to receive, means desire must also be in the mix... thus the reason for Paul to inform us of this TRUTH. So... satan does ALL he can to REMOVE that DESIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thus the reason WHY satan has caused such confusion ABOUT the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the evidence of this truth is Christians denying the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues because he's deceived them into rather holding TO their church doctrine, their denominational rituals and traditions and HAVE NO desire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WITDNM]

You believe you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Boo and I do not speak in tongues. You have something we do not have.

Do Boo and I need to remove the "block" so we can be baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues? If we were baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke with tongues, so what. You just said it would not make us more spiritually minded or mature or closer to God.

You claim the prophets you know are true. The Mormons claim their prophets are true and all the other prophets are false. The Mormons claim the same signs and wonders.

I do not believe you advocate Mormonism.

[Slug1]

You believe you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Boo and I do not speak in tongues. You have something we do not have.

I do not have the gift of tongues and I have not spoken in tongues. I desired the gift's of Knowledge and Wisdom. I detailed this in a previous post.

Do Boo and I need to remove the "block" so we can be baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues?

Actually, since all Paul instructed is that a person is to "desire"... then I will advise, whatever is preventing you from this desire to "receive" the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, that is what needs to be removed. Seek God.

If we were baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke with tongues, so what.

This condition of the heart is not of God and your fruit of this, expressed by your words... is possibly what needs to be removed.

You just said it would not make us more spiritually minded or mature or closer to God.

I did not say that and you misconstrue what I posted and twist it.

You claim the prophets you know are true. The Mormons claim their prophets are true and all the other prophets are false. The Mormons claim the same signs and wonders.

You again misconstrue what I said. I said that anything any prophet says must be discerned, tested, and balanced with the Word of God.

Please stop twisting what I say into something I am not saying.

I do not believe you advocate Mormonism.

Hooah, at least we moved one step forward in understanding.

[Slug1]

If we were baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke with tongues, so what.

I'm led back to this and I'm prompted to point something out.

You say "So what"... whelp, I have to tell you this... these words "DENY" God. Here is why... anything the Lord does FOR the Body of Christ is about Him. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't about YOU...it's about HIM!!

So when God blesses any desiring heart and that heart is ABOUT Him and not about themselves, they won't say, "SO WHAT" when God answers their desire and they RECEIVE from on High!!

Instead when they receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence in speaking in tongues they REJOICE, they PRAISE God, and they GLORIFY God... LOUDLY and JOYFULLY! Those present, they ALSO do the same.

Such people don't have a heart that says... SO WHAT.

God is not gonna bless anyone this way, only for them to deny the glory that is His with a heart that says... so WHAT

Your choice to receive this... or not.

God bless you.