Establishing the Law (Rom. 3)

[episkopos]

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Overcome what????

[chad]

Set free from the written code, but not the law of the spirit.

(Rom 7:6 NIV) But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

in the KJV Translation

(Rom 7:6 KJV) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

[Watchman]

Set free from the written code, but not the law of the spirit.

(Rom 7:6 NIV) But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

in the KJV Translation

(Rom 7:6 KJV) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What is the law of the Spirit of life?

W

[chad]

According to Paul, it is Gods Law...

(Rom 7:25 KJV) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

(Rom 7:25 NIV) Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

And

(Rom 8:1 KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



(Rom 8:1 NIV) Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
(2) because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.
(3) For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,
(4) in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

What is the law of the Spirit of life?

W

[BroRog]

Anybody can claim to be a Christian. But how many are walking in the Spirit of Christ? We know we are not believing in fables when there is an actual power we can walk in that overcomes all sin. THAT is Christianity. How can we establish a law we can't keep. So it seems there are very few who agree that the grace of God is sufficient to do all things.

Rather grace is seen as an exemption from having to be obedient to God. How backwards!!!

The doctrine that we can walk in a power that will overcome sin is an error based on a misinterpretation of various proof texts.

[BroRog]

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Overcome what????

Overcome the world, just as Jesus did, and by faith, just as John says in his first epistle. 1John 5:4-5

4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world --our faith. 5 Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

[-SEEKING-]

Rev_3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Overcome what????

You got me on the edge of my seat. What is it?

[awestruckchild]

You got me on the edge of my seat. What is it?

It is overcoming unbelief!!!
Harder sometimes than it sounds - it involves complete trust in all He has said even though the world does not WORK as He said. So there is a constant...temptation to or pull back to, the world and what IT says.

[Hawkins]

Law has been developed to qualify entities with free will to enter an eternity called His Kingdom in Heaven. God's Law stands even when other creations than humans exists. If multiple creations exist in multiple universes, His Law will still stand firm for everyone to get a ticket to this eternity called Heaven.

This standard will not change as it may not be just designed and implemented for only humans.

Ever since Adam's fall, humans are no longer inside God's realm, they need to gain a ticket to return back. They thus need to pass the Judgment of His Law in order to gain such a ticket.

However, humans chose to gradually walk away from God, they couldn't keep his Law. It is then they were given the covenants.

A covenant is composed of two main parts, the "law part" and "faith part". The "law part" is not exactly equivalent to God's Law. The "law part" is rather a reflection of God's Law which humans should be able to abide by. They can't abide by God's Law in full, but they are supposed to be able to abide by the part specified in a covenant.

Since this "law part" is not completely equivalent to God's Law, even when humans fully abide by this "law part", they may not be qualified to get the ticket to heaven as they can't abide be His Law in full yet. That comes to the second part of the covenant, the "faith part". That is, abiding by the "law part" is not good enough, you need faith.

To simply put, the "law part" plus "faith part" of a covenant will be equivalent to abiding God's Law in full. The "faith part" contributes this way because at a certain point of humanity Jesus Christ will make a sacrifice.

It is expected that the contribution of the "faith part" will increase while the "law part" will decrease, as humans keep degrading themselves. The longer they stay away from God, they less of the Law they can thus abide by. As a result, a covenant will have to be renewed to increase the "faith part".

The New Covenant is a permanent and thus eternal covenant because it is with the "faith part" increased to 100% and the "law part" removed. However, Christ's teaching was introduced as a replacement of the "law part". You thus need to obey Christ's teaching. Of course, there's fundamental difference between the "law part" such as Mosaic Law and the Christ teaching. The difference a "teaching" and a "law" is that, whenever the "law" is violated you will be sentenced. If it is a death sin/crime as defined by the "law", you'll be sentenced to death. Violating a teaching won't directly bring you such a death, with one exception though (insulting the Holy Spirit is always a death sin).

Each covenant covers a certain group of people, or rather a certain of people is under the protection of each covenant. Of course, the Second Covenant gives the best protection as every sin you committed can be considered forgivable. It gives protection in a sense that with a covenant in effect, you don't need to abide by God's Law 100%, as long as you are willing to deliver your faith.

Each covenant thus will be used in the Final Judgment to judge people under its protection. So you can't say "law changed", "law" doesn't change as each "law" will be used on the Judgment Day to judge people under the covenant. You will be judged by Law under each covenant except for the New Covenant. It is because the "law part" is removed from the New Covenant that you are no longer subject to the judgment by law. You will be judged by Jesus Christ and Him alone though. And you'll be rejected when He says that, "Depart from me, I don't know you".

[episkopos]

Overcome the world, just as Jesus did, and by faith, just as John says in his first epistle. 1John 5:4-5

4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world --our faith. 5 Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

This is not a ..state the right word contest. How have you overcome the world lately? Which us easier to overcome one man or the whole world?

So to understand the bible we have to go beyond explaining away verses and get to the seemingly impossible claims of the gospel. A believer is one who believes..not explain away the gospel to make it no less powerful than any other man made religion.

[episkopos]

It is overcoming unbelief!!!
Harder sometimes than it sounds - it involves complete trust in all He has said even though the world does not WORK as He said. So there is a constant...temptation to or pull back to, the world and what IT says.

The world is held in a cycle of sin and death. Crucifixion and resurrection in Christ overcomes both sin and death. It takes faith in God to acquire the power (grace) that overcomes.

[episkopos]

You got me on the edge of my seat. What is it?

Sin, the devil, and the world. We cannot proceed to conquer the world in our old sinful natures. We need first to die to the old nature that makes us sin. Then we need the whole armour of God which makes us fight in God's very presence. This is in holiness...without sin. Otherwise one is fighting in his own strength...sinning is the proof that we are in our own strength.

[episkopos]

Law has been developed to qualify entities with free will to enter an eternity called His Kingdom in Heaven. God's Law stands even when other creations than humans exists. If multiple creations exist in multiple universes, His Law will still stand firm for everyone to get a ticket to this eternity called Heaven.

This standard will not change as it may not be just designed and implemented for only humans.

Ever since Adam's fall, humans are no longer inside God's realm, they need to gain a ticket to return back. They thus need to pass the Judgment of His Law in order to gain such a ticket.

However, humans chose to gradually walk away from God, they couldn't keep his Law. It is then they were given the covenants.

A covenant is composed of two main parts, the "law part" and "faith part". The "law part" is not exactly equivalent to God's Law. The "law part" is rather a reflection of God's Law which humans should be able to abide by. They can't abide by God's Law in full, but they are supposed to be able to abide by the part specified in a covenant.

Since this "law part" is not completely equivalent to God's Law, even when humans fully abide by this "law part", they may not be qualified to get the ticket to heaven as they can't abide be His Law in full yet. That comes to the second part of the covenant, the "faith part". That is, abiding by the "law part" is not good enough, you need faith.

To simply put, the "law part" plus "faith part" of a covenant will be equivalent to abiding God's Law in full. The "faith part" contributes this way because at a certain point of humanity Jesus Christ will make a sacrifice.

It is expected that the contribution of the "faith part" will increase while the "law part" will decrease, as humans keep degrading themselves. The longer they stay away from God, they less of the Law they can thus abide by. As a result, a covenant will have to be renewed to increase the "faith part".

The New Covenant is a permanent and thus eternal covenant because it is with the "faith part" increased to 100% and the "law part" removed. However, Christ's teaching was introduced as a replacement of the "law part". You thus need to obey Christ's teaching. Of course, there's fundamental difference between the "law part" such as Mosaic Law and the Christ teaching. The difference a "teaching" and a "law" is that, whenever the "law" is violated you will be sentenced. If it is a death sin/crime as defined by the "law", you'll be sentenced to death. Violating a teaching won't directly bring you such a death, with one exception though (insulting the Holy Spirit is always a death sin).

Each covenant covers a certain group of people, or rather a certain of people is under the protection of each covenant. Of course, the Second Covenant gives the best protection as every sin you committed can be considered forgivable. It gives protection in a sense that with a covenant in effect, you don't need to abide by God's Law 100%, as long as you are willing to deliver your faith.

Each covenant thus will be used in the Final Judgment to judge people under its protection. So you can't say "law changed", "law" doesn't change as each "law" will be used on the Judgment Day to judge people under the covenant. You will be judged by Law under each covenant except for the New Covenant. It is because the "law part" is removed from the New Covenant that you are no longer subject to the judgment by law. You will be judged by Jesus Christ and Him alone though. And you'll be rejected when He says that, "Depart from me, I don't know you".

God has no favourites. We will all be judged by what we have done. We can escape judgment by abiding in Christ who fulfills the law IN us through an empowering grace to walk as Jesus walked. That is the simplicity and power of the gospel.

[episkopos]

The doctrine that we can walk in a power that will overcome sin is an error based on a misinterpretation of various proof texts.

Do you not see how you are stating an unbelief in the power of God?

The doctrine that says that we are left to our own strength to fulfill the law is from hell. The doctrine that states that we are saved in order to NOT be responsible for own actions is also from hell.

The simplicity of the gospel is according to the miraculous power that Jesus died and was resurrected to provide us with. Would we ignore so great a salvation?

[episkopos]

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

So we overcome sin and death through the Spirit in the abiding presence of the Lord.