Amen to this beautiful truth

[Noonzie]

"Whatever your circumstances are, you need not be afraid to come to such a Savior as this. Be you never so wicked a creature, here is worthiness enough; be you never so poor, and mean, and ignorant a creature, there is no danger of being despised, for though he be so much greater than you, he is also immensely more humble than you. Any one of you that is a father or mother, will not despise one of your own children that comes to you in distress: much less danger is there of Christ's despising you, if you in your heart come to him."


Edwards, Jonathan. The Excellency of Christ

[PJW]

I thank God for having made a way to live on earth in such a manner as to be always obedient to Jesus.

[claybevan]

"Whatever your circumstances are, you need not be afraid to come to such a Savior as this. Be you never so wicked a creature, here is worthiness enough; be you never so poor, and mean, and ignorant a creature, there is no danger of being despised, for though he be so much greater than you, he is also immensely more humble than you. Any one of you that is a father or mother, will not despise one of your own children that comes to you in distress: much less danger is there of Christ's despising you, if you in your heart come to him."


Edwards, Jonathan. The Excellency of Christ

Amen and some more

That's one of the reasons I believe we as christians have a duty to be 'real' so that others might see that we are not perfect just forgiven. I once spoke to a guy about salvation and he replied, " but you're so good, I have done way too much to be forgiven"
Had I given him that impression? I hadn't thought so but that's how he saw it. Not saying we have to keep sinning to make others feel that they too can enter, of course not but I heard my son's girlfriend ( a newly born again christian } say, " it makes me mad when I hear so much criticism of homosexuals, let's get them in first and then help them to see the truth" it made me think, yes she has a point they won't even think they can be saved if we put so much
emphasis on some sins, they will think they are beyond Gods capabilities and as Jonathan Edwards said, it aint so

[PJW]

Amen and some more

That's one of the reasons I believe we as christians have a duty to be 'real' so that others might see that we are not perfect just forgiven. I once spoke to a guy about salvation and he replied, " but you're so good, I have done way too much to be forgiven"
Had I given him that impression? I hadn't thought so but that's how he saw it. Not saying we have to keep sinning to make others feel that they too can enter, of course not but I heard my son's girlfriend ( a newly born again christian } say, " it makes me mad when I hear so much criticism of homosexuals, let's get them in first and then help them to see the truth" it made me think, yes she has a point they won't even think they can be saved if we put so much
emphasis on some sins, they will think they are beyond Gods capabilities and as Jonathan Edwards said, it aint so

You can't be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time. Only those who have turned from sin will be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

[-SEEKING-]

You can't be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time. Only those who have turned from sin will be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

It's the PJW party. Oh yeah. Keep struttin dude.

[claybevan]

You can't be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time. Only those who have turned from sin will be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

That's me doomed then, to think I have been taken in by verses like this

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. (NIV)

and this...
He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins - Ephesians 1:7

All those empty churches, I guess someone will find a use for them.

[PJW]

That's me doomed then, to think I have been taken in by verses like this

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. (NIV)

and this...
He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins - Ephesians 1:7

All those empty churches, I guess someone will find a use for them.

In verse 23 Paul writes of the "law of sin". We know that he is writing of a "past" time because in Romans 8:2 Paul says, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN and death."
If Paul is free from the law if sin, why do folks keep insisting that Paul is a sinner?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24) I think that Paul was Christ's.
A building does not make a church, as a church is the body of Christ. "We are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones." (Eph 5:30) There is no sin in Christ's body.

[claybevan]

You can't be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time. Only those who have turned from sin will be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

Good evenin' PJW
Does this mean that now you are in Christ you no longer fall from grace?
My life is a constant ' fall and repent, I doubt wether there is one day that goes by where I don't fall short of His Glory but if I confess my sins he will forgive me.
Perhaps I have misunderstood what you mean?

[Noonzie]

You can't be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time. Only those who have turned from sin will be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

no one is considered worthy. grace isn't about what we do, but what Christ has done. as a Christian you still have a human nature born in sin. before the Holy Spirit lives at your conversion, you are a slave to sin and have no ability to not sin. When you are converted, you are now reconciled and justified through the work of Christ. God sees you as justified and treats you as so. We are being conformed into the image of Christ. You are not immediately without anymore sinful actions. Why does is say being conformed? Because your salvation isn't attached to you being a sinless being for the rest of your life. The work of God in your life is that you may now eagerly seek to be like Christ, where as before you could not. We must trust and rely on the righteousness of Christ.

[PJW]

Good evenin' PJW
Does this mean that now you are in Christ you no longer fall from grace?
My life is a constant ' fall and repent, I doubt wether there is one day that goes by where I don't fall short of His Glory but if I confess my sins he will forgive me.
Perhaps I have misunderstood what you mean?

Claybevan,
You understood me perfectly.
My old sinful "self" has been crucified with Christ. (Ro 6:6)
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
My new "self" is born of incorruptible seed, (1 Peter 1:23), and "a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit". (Matt 7:15-18)
True repentance is a one time event. (2 Cor 7:10)
What is the first commandment? Love God above everything else. A sinner manifests that they love something else more than they love God every time they sin.
What is the second commandment? Love your neighbor as you love yourself. If you do evil to one of God's other children, you're not just hurting that child of God, you are offending God Himself.
I beseech you to make your repentance real. Remember, "God heareth not sinners." (Jo 9:31) A truely repentant person is a non-sinner.

[PJW]

no one is considered worthy. grace isn't about what we do, but what Christ has done. as a Christian you still have a human nature born in sin. before the Holy Spirit lives at your conversion, you are a slave to sin and have no ability to not sin. When you are converted, you are now reconciled and justified through the work of Christ. God sees you as justified and treats you as so. We are being conformed into the image of Christ. You are not immediately without anymore sinful actions. Why does is say being conformed? Because your salvation isn't attached to you being a sinless being for the rest of your life. The work of God in your life is that you may now eagerly seek to be like Christ, where as before you could not. We must trust and rely on the righteousness of Christ.

Noonzie,
You are right, to a point. Before Jesus' atoning sacrifice for us, nobody was worthy of the grace of God, but now that we can be re-born, of the seed of God, we are worthy. We are God's children and "He (Jesus) is not ashamed to call them brethren". (Heb 2:11) God will keep shedding that grace on us till we prove we are not worthy of it. Then you are on your own.
If we love God and Jesus and His children, why would we ever sin again? Sin is the manifestation of loving something else more than you love God.
I can't find "being conformed" in my bible. I see, "For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Ro 8:29) I also see, "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God. (Ro 12:2) My mind was transformed when I was born again. I am a new creature. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW." (2 Cor 5:17)
If you still bring forth evil fruit, you are from an corrupt tree. (Matt 7:18)

[awestruckchild]

no one is considered worthy. grace isn't about what we do, but what Christ has done. as a Christian you still have a human nature born in sin. before the Holy Spirit lives at your conversion, you are a slave to sin and have no ability to not sin. When you are converted, you are now reconciled and justified through the work of Christ. God sees you as justified and treats you as so. We are being conformed into the image of Christ. You are not immediately without anymore sinful actions. Why does is say being conformed? Because your salvation isn't attached to you being a sinless being for the rest of your life. The work of God in your life is that you may now eagerly seek to be like Christ, where as before you could not. We must trust and rely on the righteousness of Christ.

I don't like this and your previous post.
Something is out of whack here.
The homosexual must turn from his sin before he can come to Christ, but you who have come to Him are okay to still have "sinful actions?"
When we come to Christ, we are turning from the sin of unbelief. Period.
We don't really have any IDEA what "sin" is when we come to Him.
I think if we had any idea of just how deep and disgusting it runs inside of us at that point, we wouldn't DARE to come to Him.
There is a deep fissure here in these two posts.
Something is crooked...

[awestruckchild]

oops!
I quoted the wrong person.
I meant to quote PJW.
Sorry!
Post #2 is a paraphrase of: Thank you Lord that I am not a sinner like these other men.
The other post is that homosexuals cannot come to Christ in their sin just like any other man in a sin.
We don't stop sinning and then come to Him.
We come to Him because we ARE sinners who need His saving.
The sin we turn from when we turn toward Him is the sin of unbelief.
Then, we come into a bible forum and start threads like:
Is it a sin to get a tattoo?
Is smoking a sin?
Am I sinning when I watch Die Hard?
This just shows that we don't understand WHAT sin is when we come to Him.

[claybevan]

Claybevan,
You understood me perfectly.
My old sinful "self" has been crucified with Christ. (Ro 6:6)
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
My new "self" is born of incorruptible seed, (1 Peter 1:23), and "a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit". (Matt 7:15-18)
True repentance is a one time event. (2 Cor 7:10)
What is the first commandment? Love God above everything else. A sinner manifests that they love something else more than they love God every time they sin.
What is the second commandment? Love your neighbor as you love yourself. If you do evil to one of God's other children, you're not just hurting that child of God, you are offending God Himself.
I beseech you to make your repentance real. Remember, "God heareth not sinners." (Jo 9:31) A truely repentant person is a non-sinner.

I'm a tryin PJW
but the reason why Paul saw himself as a sinner was because he wasn't Jesus. We are graciously hidden in Christ's perfect self but it doesn't mean that we do not sin still.
Just saying that we are without sin in my mind is a sin .
Where is the man or women that can stand up and say that they don't? we don't want to but we do!
If you walk so closely with the Lord PJW that you never have even a thought the isn't sinful then I stand in awe, I'm just not there yet.
I hanging on in though because He Is gracious
And it is in our weakness that HIS strength is made known.
I hope that I can call myself your sister in Christ.
mari

[claybevan]

I don't like this and your previous post.
Something is out of whack here.
The homosexual must turn from his sin before he can come to Christ, but you who have come to Him are okay to still have "sinful actions?"
When we come to Christ, we are turning from the sin of unbelief. Period.
We don't really have any IDEA what "sin" is when we come to Him.
I think if we had any idea of just how deep and disgusting it runs inside of us at that point, we wouldn't DARE to come to Him.
There is a deep fissure here in these two posts.
Something is crooked...

Sorry awestruck, was it my post you didn't like?