Amen to this beautiful truth

[Noonzie]

"Whatever your circumstances are, you need not be afraid to come to such a Savior as this. Be you never so wicked a creature, here is worthiness enough; be you never so poor, and mean, and ignorant a creature, there is no danger of being despised, for though he be so much greater than you, he is also immensely more humble than you. Any one of you that is a father or mother, will not despise one of your own children that comes to you in distress: much less danger is there of Christ's despising you, if you in your heart come to him."


Edwards, Jonathan. The Excellency of Christ

[PJW]

I thank God for having made a way to live on earth in such a manner as to be always obedient to Jesus.

[claybevan]

"Whatever your circumstances are, you need not be afraid to come to such a Savior as this. Be you never so wicked a creature, here is worthiness enough; be you never so poor, and mean, and ignorant a creature, there is no danger of being despised, for though he be so much greater than you, he is also immensely more humble than you. Any one of you that is a father or mother, will not despise one of your own children that comes to you in distress: much less danger is there of Christ's despising you, if you in your heart come to him."


Edwards, Jonathan. The Excellency of Christ

Amen and some more

That's one of the reasons I believe we as christians have a duty to be 'real' so that others might see that we are not perfect just forgiven. I once spoke to a guy about salvation and he replied, " but you're so good, I have done way too much to be forgiven"
Had I given him that impression? I hadn't thought so but that's how he saw it. Not saying we have to keep sinning to make others feel that they too can enter, of course not but I heard my son's girlfriend ( a newly born again christian } say, " it makes me mad when I hear so much criticism of homosexuals, let's get them in first and then help them to see the truth" it made me think, yes she has a point they won't even think they can be saved if we put so much
emphasis on some sins, they will think they are beyond Gods capabilities and as Jonathan Edwards said, it aint so

[PJW]

Amen and some more

That's one of the reasons I believe we as christians have a duty to be 'real' so that others might see that we are not perfect just forgiven. I once spoke to a guy about salvation and he replied, " but you're so good, I have done way too much to be forgiven"
Had I given him that impression? I hadn't thought so but that's how he saw it. Not saying we have to keep sinning to make others feel that they too can enter, of course not but I heard my son's girlfriend ( a newly born again christian } say, " it makes me mad when I hear so much criticism of homosexuals, let's get them in first and then help them to see the truth" it made me think, yes she has a point they won't even think they can be saved if we put so much
emphasis on some sins, they will think they are beyond Gods capabilities and as Jonathan Edwards said, it aint so

You can't be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time. Only those who have turned from sin will be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

[-SEEKING-]

You can't be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time. Only those who have turned from sin will be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

It's the PJW party. Oh yeah. Keep struttin dude.

[claybevan]

You can't be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time. Only those who have turned from sin will be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

That's me doomed then, to think I have been taken in by verses like this

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. (NIV)

and this...
He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins - Ephesians 1:7

All those empty churches, I guess someone will find a use for them.

[PJW]

That's me doomed then, to think I have been taken in by verses like this

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. (NIV)

and this...
He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins - Ephesians 1:7

All those empty churches, I guess someone will find a use for them.

In verse 23 Paul writes of the "law of sin". We know that he is writing of a "past" time because in Romans 8:2 Paul says, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN and death."
If Paul is free from the law if sin, why do folks keep insisting that Paul is a sinner?
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24) I think that Paul was Christ's.
A building does not make a church, as a church is the body of Christ. "We are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones." (Eph 5:30) There is no sin in Christ's body.

[claybevan]

You can't be "in Christ" and "in sin" at the same time. Only those who have turned from sin will be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.

Good evenin' PJW
Does this mean that now you are in Christ you no longer fall from grace?
My life is a constant ' fall and repent, I doubt wether there is one day that goes by where I don't fall short of His Glory but if I confess my sins he will forgive me.
Perhaps I have misunderstood what you mean?

[PJW]

Good evenin' PJW
Does this mean that now you are in Christ you no longer fall from grace?
My life is a constant ' fall and repent, I doubt wether there is one day that goes by where I don't fall short of His Glory but if I confess my sins he will forgive me.
Perhaps I have misunderstood what you mean?

Claybevan,
You understood me perfectly.
My old sinful "self" has been crucified with Christ. (Ro 6:6)
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
My new "self" is born of incorruptible seed, (1 Peter 1:23), and "a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit". (Matt 7:15-18)
True repentance is a one time event. (2 Cor 7:10)
What is the first commandment? Love God above everything else. A sinner manifests that they love something else more than they love God every time they sin.
What is the second commandment? Love your neighbor as you love yourself. If you do evil to one of God's other children, you're not just hurting that child of God, you are offending God Himself.
I beseech you to make your repentance real. Remember, "God heareth not sinners." (Jo 9:31) A truely repentant person is a non-sinner.

[claybevan]

Claybevan,
You understood me perfectly.
My old sinful "self" has been crucified with Christ. (Ro 6:6)
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
My new "self" is born of incorruptible seed, (1 Peter 1:23), and "a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit". (Matt 7:15-18)
True repentance is a one time event. (2 Cor 7:10)
What is the first commandment? Love God above everything else. A sinner manifests that they love something else more than they love God every time they sin.
What is the second commandment? Love your neighbor as you love yourself. If you do evil to one of God's other children, you're not just hurting that child of God, you are offending God Himself.
I beseech you to make your repentance real. Remember, "God heareth not sinners." (Jo 9:31) A truely repentant person is a non-sinner.

I'm a tryin PJW
but the reason why Paul saw himself as a sinner was because he wasn't Jesus. We are graciously hidden in Christ's perfect self but it doesn't mean that we do not sin still.
Just saying that we are without sin in my mind is a sin .
Where is the man or women that can stand up and say that they don't? we don't want to but we do!
If you walk so closely with the Lord PJW that you never have even a thought the isn't sinful then I stand in awe, I'm just not there yet.
I hanging on in though because He Is gracious
And it is in our weakness that HIS strength is made known.
I hope that I can call myself your sister in Christ.
mari

[PJW]

I'm a tryin PJW
but the reason why Paul saw himself as a sinner was because he wasn't Jesus. We are graciously hidden in Christ's perfect self but it doesn't mean that we do not sin still.
Just saying that we are without sin in my mind is a sin .
Where is the man or women that can stand up and say that they don't? we don't want to but we do!
If you walk so closely with the Lord PJW that you never have even a thought the isn't sinful then I stand in awe, I'm just not there yet.
I hanging on in though because He Is gracious
And it is in our weakness that HIS strength is made known.
I hope that I can call myself your sister in Christ.
mari

Jesus said, "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." Then He said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (Jo 8:32, 34)
Your response says that "nobody can be free of sin".
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin because he is born of God." "In this the children of God are manifest..." (1Jo 3:9-10)
If you were my sister in Christ, we would both be non-sinners. God, in me, has overcome any weakness I once had to temptation.

[-SEEKING-]

If you were my sister in Christ, we would both be non-sinners.

Wow. Loving your neighbor at it's finest.

[EarlyCall]

Jesus said, "And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." Then He said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (Jo 8:32, 34)
Your response says that "nobody can be free of sin".
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin because he is born of God." "In this the children of God are manifest..." (1Jo 3:9-10)
If you were my sister in Christ, we would both be non-sinners. God, in me, has overcome any weakness I once had to temptation.

How do you explain, in light of all you have said in this thread, when we are told that if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father who speaks in our defense. Is this referring to the lost or the saved in Christ?

[PJW]

How do you explain, in light of all you have said in this thread, when we are told that if we do sin, we have an advocate with the Father who speaks in our defense. Is this referring to the lost or the saved in Christ?

John is referring to the lost, as only the lost commit sin. Those who are born of God cannot commit sin. (1 Jo 3:9-10)

[Colight]

John is referring to the lost, as only the lost commit sin. Those who are born of God cannot commit sin. (1 Jo 3:9-10)

Perhaps it is not saying that..
After all it is addressing FALSE TEACHING..


What is sin in this passage? ἁμαρτία -hamartia - to miss the mark or that which is done wrong.

When we are born of God that is the correct way for righteousness.


7 Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous, ( what is doing the righteous? Belief on Christ is doing the righteous)

8 he who is doing the( missing the mark on being righteous ), of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth ( missing the mark on being righteous ); for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil; ( the Devil is always about human effort to produce some form of false righteousness aka works)

9 every one who hath been begotten of God, ( missing the mark on being righteous ) he doth not, because his ( GODS) seed in him doth remain ( therefore he is righteous ), and he is not able to (to miss the mark on righteousness), because of God he hath been begotten ( we have the same righteousness that God has ).

10 In this manifest are the children of God, and the children of the devil; every one who is not doing righteousness ( because we have been born into the righteousness of God we are able to do righteous), is not of God, and he who is not loving his brother,

If one is not born of God then they are not righteous..they have missed the mark, they have done it wrong.

To state this means Christians can not sin, is to really just read a translation rather than to dig into the verse and its doctrine.

Side note.. not sinning is a incorrect way for salvation or to keep salvation salvation is never gained or made perfect thru the flesh.

Galatians 3
3 so thoughtless are ye! having begun in the Spirit, now in the flesh do ye end?