What really happened with Judas?

[Scooby_Snacks]

I was thinking, because it is on my mind today, that Judas might have had unforgiveness, and it lead him down the path to have Satan enter in, that he would betray Jesus.
I say that because I believe he wanted Jesus to be someone He was not, and even though he lived directly with the truth of who Jesus was, he still had his own mind about who He should have been.

What do you all think?

[jayne]

I say that because I believe he wanted Jesus to be someone He was not, and even though he lived directly with the truth of who Jesus was, he still had his own mind about who He should have been.

What do you all think?

I think you are right. He was definitely not on the same page as Jesus was. John 12 says that his compassion for the poor was a lie and specifically states that Judas was a thief who stole from the money bag that he was in charge of.

But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages."He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

I think that - to Judas - the Messiah was about political and earthly gain and he wanted a part of that.

Here's a good summary of what Judas was all about. Why did Judas betray Jesus?

[Scooby_Snacks]

That was a really good read Jayne, thank you.

There is one thing I have noticed. I have some difficulty in asking a question.

Why would I have this awful feeling when Judas runs and hangs himself? I think I watched Jesus Christ superstar too many times when I was young.
I guess it falls in with what I was feeling this morning, that one who does not believe in Christ, condemns himself, and one who will not forgive, will not be forgiven.
It hurts me to think about.

Did Jesus forgive him for doing what he did?

[jayne]

Why would I have this awful feeling when Judas runs and hangs himself?

You get this awful feeling because you are a Christian and an image-bearer of God. God, Himself, does not take delight in the destruction of the wicked. He says so twice in Ezekiel 18 and once in Ezekiel 33. It makes you feel terrible because you don't take delight in it either. For a true Christian - people dying and going to hell is a very discouraging thing to think about and it SHOULD bother us greatly.

Did Jesus forgive him for doing what he did?

I'm not trying to be evasive here, but I think the real question is did Judas repent and seek atonement. I believe that when Jesus died on the cross he died for all sin, including Judas'. He did that because He can. He can because He is God. And in His being God - Jesus is sovereign.

But Judas was not "programmed" by God to betray Christ - God doesn't make people sin. Judas chose to betray Him. There's that fine balance that only God could have orchestrated - His Sovereignty and the free will of mankind.

Judas regretted what he did. He tried to give back the silver. He realized that Jesus was about something way bigger than he understood. But Judas never expressed the Godly sorrow that leads to repentance. He was just upset that his actions sent a friend to be executed.

Did Jesus forgive Judas? Perhaps. He did preach a sermon on loving one's enemies. I believe Jesus loved Judas. In John 17, Jesus prayed to God that of the ones (12 disciples) that God gave Him (Jesus), He protected them all and only one was lost - the son of perdition (Judas).

I believe that this one statement from Jesus is evidence that while God may offer mercy and grace and forgiveness, that unless one is repentant and surrenders to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, that one not be saved.

[Reynolds357]

I was thinking, because it is on my mind today, that Judas might have had unforgiveness, and it lead him down the path to have Satan enter in, that he would betray Jesus.
I say that because I believe he wanted Jesus to be someone He was not, and even though he lived directly with the truth of who Jesus was, he still had his own mind about who He should have been.

What do you all think?

Its hard to say what he was thinking. My personal belief was that he was scared that his thieving would be found out and he would suffer extreme consequences from the other disciples. He had seen Jesus walk out of the hands of the mob seeking to kill Him before and He thought Jesus would simply do it again. No harm comes to Jesus and he has received the funds to balance the books and get out of trouble. 30 pieces of silver was not chicken feed. It was the cost of a slave. It was a significant amount of money.

[Scooby_Snacks]

You get this awful feeling because you are a Christian and an image-bearer of God. God, Himself, does not take delight in the destruction of the wicked. He says so twice in Ezekiel 18 and once in Ezekiel 33. It makes you feel terrible because you don't take delight in it either. For a true Christian - people dying and going to hell is a very discouraging thing to think about and it SHOULD bother us greatly.




I'm not trying to be evasive here, but I think the real question is did Judas repent and seek atonement. I believe that when Jesus died on the cross he died for all sin, including Judas'. He did that because He can. He can because He is God. And in His being God - Jesus is sovereign.

But Judas was not "programmed" by God to betray Christ - God doesn't make people sin. Judas chose to betray Him. There's that fine balance that only God could have orchestrated - His Sovereignty and the free will of mankind.

Judas regretted what he did. He tried to give back the silver. He realized that Jesus was about something way bigger than he understood. But Judas never expressed the Godly sorrow that leads to repentance. He was just upset that his actions sent a friend to be executed.

Did Jesus forgive Judas? Perhaps. He did preach a sermon on loving one's enemies. I believe Jesus loved Judas. In John 17, Jesus prayed to God that of the ones (12 disciples) that God gave Him (Jesus), He protected them all and only one was lost - the son of perdition (Judas).

I believe that this one statement from Jesus is evidence that while God may offer mercy and grace and forgiveness, that unless one is repentant and surrenders to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, that one not be saved.

I know I have looked up what perdition meant at some point, but had to do it again.

(in Christian theology) A state of eternal punishment and damnation into which a sinful and unpenitent person passes after death.

I believe this means that Judas did not repent. The scripture in John 17 appears to confirm this.
It was not that Jesus did not offer to him salvation, love and pray for him.
He condemned himself, by his own unbelief.
I can remember the song Blood Money he was singing in Jesus Christ Superstar, one of the lines as he spoke with Annas and Caiaphas.

Just don't say I'm ... damned for all time.

There is still this small voice inside of him that hopes his sins will not condemn him.
This is the lie/deception of Satan that tells a person,
" You don't have to believe in God or what He states very clearly, you won't die in your sins".
(Im thinking about the Garden of Eden here)

It is no wonder, the importance of John 3

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

And this is the judgment:
the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
(John 3:16-21 ESV)

The truth is that there is no one person other than Christ who has never sinned.
No one is beyond the reach of His Grace, of His Mercy.

So the plea to the unbeliever is:
Come! Come to Him and be Saved as He calls to you! Do not delay! Do not wait until you clean up your act! He can handle the hard stuff!
He will do amazing things in your life. The joy of relationship with God, the Almighty will be yours.

[John 8:32]

I was thinking, because it is on my mind today, that Judas might have had unforgiveness, and it lead him down the path to have Satan enter in, that he would betray Jesus.
I say that because I believe he wanted Jesus to be someone He was not, and even though he lived directly with the truth of who Jesus was, he still had his own mind about who He should have been.

What do you all think?

I don't think he was that noble of thought...

Joh 12:6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

[Scooby_Snacks]

Hi John 8:32,

These are many places in the bible that bring light to Judas betrayal and his character. I was thinking that he had a choice at some point.

When I read the John 17 scripture, it seemed to imply that Judas was one of those given to Him.
I took that as he had the ability to be a believer, and be an apostle, but instead, when given the opportunity to believe, he did not.

I think a little of what Reynolds shared here is key. He did not want his sin exposed. If he came clean with his pilfering, he had FEAR of what would happen to him after that. So yes, it appears he was self serving, but I do believe he was given the opportunity to allow Jesus in to change him, and if he had, The Lord would have done just that. (1 John 1:5-10)

[Love Fountain]

I was thinking, because it is on my mind today, that Judas might have had unforgiveness, and it lead him down the path to have Satan enter in, that he would betray Jesus.
I say that because I believe he wanted Jesus to be someone He was not, and even though he lived directly with the truth of who Jesus was, he still had his own mind about who He should have been.

What do you all think?

Hi Scooby_Snacks,

Would you agree that Jesus knew inside and out those that he had chosen to be his twelve disciples and that Jesus was in charge of assigning duties and responsibilities?

In other words, do you think Jesus would've chose Judas to be the one to carry the bag? I'm going to speculate that you would agree that Jesus chose Judas to carry the bag, if I'm wrong please forgive me and tell me why you don't agree? If I'm correct, then please consider the following and let me know what you think?

Jesus knowing all things, would he have chosen a thief to carry the bag or would he have chosen the best person with money management to carry the bag?

What do you think and why?

Bless you,
Love Fountain

[Love Fountain]

In John 17, Jesus prayed to God that of the ones (12 disciples) that God gave Him (Jesus), He protected them all and only one was lost - the son of perdition (Judas).

Dear Jane

If Judas is the son of perdition in John 17 then wouldn't he also have to be the son of perdition in 2Thes 2:3?

In other words, there is "The Messiah", "The Devil", "The Son of Perdition" and all the way through the Bible "The" would be specific and a definite article to one specific individual and therefore would not be able to be any other than "The" specific individual. What do you think and why please?

Bless you,
Love Fountain

[jayne]

Dear Jane

If Judas is the son of perdition in John 17 then wouldn't he also have to be the son of perdition in 2Thes 2:3?

In other words, there is "The Messiah", "The Devil", "The Son of Perdition" and all the way through the Bible "The" would be specific and a definite article to one specific individual and therefore would not be able to be any other than "The" specific individual. What do you think and why please?

Bless you,
Love Fountain

Hi, LF -

To me, the title "son of perdition (or destruction)" is referencing two different people in two different passages. It's like in 1 John 2. John says that there were many antichrists in his own day and that "the" (definite article) Antichrist is the one who denies the Father and the Son.

Again, (just my two cents), the definite article "the" in John 17 and 2 Thess. 2:3 have to be considered with the context. The "the" doesn't necessarily imply a singular son of perdition in the Bible, but a singular one amongst the 12 disciples and a singular one who will be the man of lawlessness amongst the earth.

Because the "son of perdition (or destruction)" is not talking about the destruction of others, but the destruction of the individual called by that name, then the Bible could refer to more than one person in that way.

[Scooby_Snacks]

Hi Scooby_Snacks,

Would you agree that Jesus knew inside and out those that he had chosen to be his twelve disciples and that Jesus was in charge of assigning duties and responsibilities?

In other words, do you think Jesus would've chose Judas to be the one to carry the bag? I'm going to speculate that you would agree that Jesus chose Judas to carry the bag, if I'm wrong please forgive me and tell me why you don't agree? If I'm correct, then please consider the following and let me know what you think?

Jesus knowing all things, would he have chosen a thief to carry the bag or would he have chosen the best person with money management to carry the bag?

What do you think and why?

Bless you,
Love Fountain

Hi Love Fountain,

I believe in Gods Sovereignty, but also in free will. I do not believe we are puppets, but I also believe God knows who will follow Him, and who will not. Well at least thats where I stand at this time, and sometimes I think that my puny brain needs to stay focused more on what I am doing than when I get obsessed with particular doctrines.

I believe the way we see time is different than the way God does.
He may know who will choose Him and who will not, but we still walk out our lives in a strait line, whereas He is without the boundaries of time.
If God set in motion on purpose the act of Judas betrayal, by placing Judas in the position to do so, how much condemnation should Judas have received?
If Judas was created to be damned, then where is Gods mercy? The paradox's are before us, and its wonder is its mystery.

Did Jesus know Judas was the one from the beginning?
These were ordinary folks, or people with voacations we are not told of. Being a friend to tax collectors and sinners kindof sums up for me the manner the world saw some of His disciples. Not one of them without some issue, that their testimony would have impact.

Jesus was man and God. His experience was fully human, and He had the opportunity while being tempted to take matters into His own hands. So Gods will is what might matter the most here.
Was His will that Jesus feel the full impact of Judas betrayal, a friend, one who ate with Him and went to Temple with Him?
Even my close friend in whom I trusted,
who ate my bread, has lifted his heel against me.
(Psalm 41:9 ESV)

Perhaps that is why I asked, did Jesus forgive him?
Did he know what he was doing, or was he like those that sent Jesus to the cross, the crowd itself, not knowing what they were doing, being forgiven by Christ as He was dying?

Maybe his close and intimate knowledge of Jesus and the problems he faced with those who opposed him, made his betrayal of what he did know, a deeper crime?

My plea is that no one decide to attempt to find out this mystery themselves, by stretching their rebellion to the very end, instead of answering Him when He calls, when He is knocking on thier heart.

[Watchman]

I was thinking, because it is on my mind today, that Judas might have had unforgiveness, and it lead him down the path to have Satan enter in, that he would betray Jesus.
I say that because I believe he wanted Jesus to be someone He was not, and even though he lived directly with the truth of who Jesus was, he still had his own mind about who He should have been.

What do you all think?

We all have our conceptions of what God is, who He is, and about His heart. Judas' were wrong. Mine have been wrong in the past, and may yet have errors.

[Scooby_Snacks]

We all have our conceptions of what God is, who He is, and about His heart. Judas' were wrong. Mine have been wrong in the past, and may yet have errors.

I concur. Short and savory, thanks Watchman.