a short history of the Watchtower

[Liquid Tension]

Wow S55!! That's a ton of info!


Just waiting for the spin cycle to begin now.

[Diggindeeper]

This scripture reference comes to my mind...

Romans 16:17-18
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (That would be the men you are exposing, Sojourner! And those who rule over the Watchtower publications to this day. That's why we preach 'avoid them.')

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. (That would be the 7.5 million people. 7 and a half million people.)

[Sojourner55]

This scripture reference comes to my mind...

Romans 16:17-18
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (That would be the men you are exposing, Sojourner! And those who rule over the Watchtower publications to this day. That's why we preach 'avoid them.')

18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. (That would be the 7.5 million people. 7 and a half million people.)

Amen, DD. These verses come to mind as well:

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. (2 Pet 2:1)

Watch yourselves, that you might not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.
Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
(2 John 1:8-9)

[Sojourner55]

Wow S55!! That's a ton of info!


Just waiting for the spin cycle to begin now.

Well, it represents 45 years of unsound speculation. So, I guess, technically, it should considered a ton of misinformation. And I'm sure the spin cycle will begin soon enough, though the machine has a defective motor, and won't be very effective--especially against prognostication that's all wet.

[guestman]

Actually Charles Russell did admit as much in private conversation. See (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1919, p. 357).

And the WT confirmed it without protest from Russell.

“The faithful and wise steward” would not be a company of individuals”(Watchtower,. 4/15 1903 p.3306)

“The Lord indicated he would use one member of his Church as the channel. . . ( Watchtower 3/11/1923, p. 68)

“The lord foretold an office that would be filled by man. The man the Lord chose to fill that office was his modest, humble, and faithful servant ,brother Russell” (Watchtower. 5/1/1922 p.74).

“The Society by overwhelming majority vote expressed its will in substance thus: Brother Russell filled the office of 'that Servant.” (Watchtower 4/1/1920, p.101)

“Fulfilled prophecy-or physical facts-and the circumstantial evidence are conclusive proof that Russell filled the office of that faithful and wise servant” (Watchtower 3/1/1922, p. 74)

“the Watch Tower unhesitatingly proclaims brother Russell as the faithful and wise servant.” (Watchtower 3/1/1917 p.6049)

When Russell died, the Watchtower claimed: “Thousands of the readers of Pastor Russell's writings believe that he filled the office of that faithful and wise servant, . . . His modesty and humility precluded him from openly claiming this title, but he admitted as much in private conversation.” (Watchtower, December 1, 1916, p. 357.)

In the October-November 1881 issue of the Watch Tower magazine, C.*T.*Russell stated: “We believe that every member of this body of Christ is engaged in the blessed work, either directly or indirectly, of giving meat in due season to the household of faith. ‘Who then is that faithful and wise servant whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household,’ to give them meat in due season? Is it not that ‘little flock’ of consecrated servants who are faithfully carrying out their consecration vows—the body of Christ—and is not the whole body individually and collectively, giving the meat in due [s]eason to the household of faith—the great company of believers? Blessed is that servant (the whole body of Christ) whom his Lord when he has come (Gr. elthon) shall find so doing. ‘Verily, I say unto you, that he shall make him ruler over all his goods.’”

Over a decade later, however, Charles Taze Russell’s wife publicly expressed the idea that Russell himself was the faithful and wise servant. The view that she voiced concerning the identity of the ‘faithful servant’ came to be generally held by the Bible Students for some 30 years. Brother Russell did not reject their view, but he personally avoided making such an application of the text, emphasizing his opposition to the idea of a clergy class commissioned to teach God’s Word in contrast to a lay class that was not thus commissioned. The understanding expressed by Charles Taze Russell in 1881 that the faithful and wise servant was in reality a collective servant, made up of all the members of the spirit-anointed body of Christ on earth, was reaffirmed in The Watch Tower of February 15, 1927.(Compare Isaiah 43:10)

[Sojourner55]

In the October-November 1881 issue of the Watch Tower magazine, C.*T.*Russell stated: “We believe that every member of this body of Christ is engaged in the blessed work, either directly or indirectly, of giving meat in due season to the household of faith. ‘Who then is that faithful and wise servant whom his Lord hath made ruler over his household,’ to give them meat in due season? Is it not that ‘little flock’ of consecrated servants who are faithfully carrying out their consecration vows—the body of Christ—and is not the whole body individually and collectively, giving the meat in due [s]eason to the household of faith—the great company of believers? Blessed is that servant (the whole body of Christ) whom his Lord when he has come (Gr. elthon) shall find so doing. ‘Verily, I say unto you, that he shall make him ruler over all his goods.’”

Over a decade later, however, Charles Taze Russell’s wife publicly expressed the idea that Russell himself was the faithful and wise servant. The view that she voiced concerning the identity of the ‘faithful servant’ came to be generally held by the Bible Students for some 30 years. Brother Russell did not reject their view, but he personally avoided making such an application of the text, emphasizing his opposition to the idea of a clergy class commissioned to teach God’s Word in contrast to a lay class that was not thus commissioned. The understanding expressed by Charles Taze Russell in 1881 that the faithful and wise servant was in reality a collective servant, made up of all the members of the spirit-anointed body of Christ on earth, was reaffirmed in The Watch Tower of February 15, 1927.(Compare Isaiah 43:10)

Qui tacet consentire videtur: "he who is silent is understood to consent." It would have been proper for brother Russell to reject the idea, if he didn't want people to believe it, don't you think? His reluctance to do so, betrays an ambivalence about laying claim to the title.

The bottom line is, William Miller, Charles Russell, and Joseph Rutherford all helped lay the foundations for the modern Jehovah's Witnesses. And all three are guilty of misrepresenting the truth about Bible prophecy, and setting specific dates for fulfillment. Miller may have publicly expressed his views only after persistent requests by his peers, but proclaim them he did--resulting in "the Great Disappointment." Russell and Rutherford on the other hand, readily and willingly published their errant prognostications abroad, setting exact dates for prophetic fulfillment--while unequivocally ascribing Biblical credentials to them. Both subsequently extended the dates, and engaged in calculated prevarication when they passed uneventfully.

This places these men among the end times false teachers, foretold by NT writers. This hardly makes the architects of the watchtower the type of representatives that lend credibility to, or inspire confidence in your organization. This same group has historically condemned the Christian ministry, proclaimed that God will destroy them all, and declared that only those affiliated with the watchtower will ultimately be saved.

Despite the absurd claim that Jehovah's Witnesses date back to the time of Abel in the garden of Eden, they can be traced back no farther than the early beginnings of Adventism, and is no more than a splinter group that developed its own brand of heresy--falsely proclaiming itself the only true "prophet" and messenger of God. I'm sure you believe in what you profess, guestman, and you are welcome to present your case in special forums such as this one. Just be prepared for relentless opposition to, and refutation of your false teachings, because we have a divine mandate to "earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints." (Jude 1:3)


The irony of the watchtower is, despite its false prophecies, it is itself a part of the fulfillment of prophecy:

2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. (2 Pet 2:1-3)

5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; and avoid such men as these.
6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 And just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected as regards the faith.
9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, as also that of those two came to be. (2 Tim 3:5-9)

[guestman]

Qui tacet consentire videtur: "he who is silent is understood to consent." It would have been proper for brother Russell to reject the idea, if he didn't want people to believe it, don't you think? His reluctance to do so, betrays an ambivalence about laying claim to the title.

The bottom line is, William Miller, Charles Russell, and Joseph Rutherford all helped lay the foundations for the modern Jehovah's Witnesses. And all three are guilty of misrepresenting the truth about Bible prophecy, and setting specific dates for fulfillment. Miller may have publicly expressed his views only after persistent requests by his peers, but proclaim them he did--resulting in "the Great Disappointment." Russell and Rutherford on the other hand, readily and willingly published their errant prognostications abroad, setting exact dates for prophetic fulfillment--while unequivocally ascribing Biblical credentials to them. Both subsequently extended the dates, and engaged in calculated prevarication when they passed uneventfully.

This places these men among the end times false teachers, foretold by NT writers. This hardly makes the architects of the watchtower the type of representatives that lend credibility to, or inspire confidence in your organization. This same group has historically condemned the Christian ministry, proclaimed that God will destroy them all, and declared that only those affiliated with the watchtower will ultimately be saved.

Despite the absurd claim that Jehovah's Witnesses date back to the time of Abel in the garden of Eden, they can be traced back no farther than the early beginnings of Adventism, and is no more than a splinter group that developed its own brand of heresy--falsely proclaiming itself the only true "prophet" and messenger of God. I'm sure you believe in what you profess, guestman, and you are welcome to present your case in special forums such as this one. Just be prepared for relentless opposition to, and refutation of your false teachings, because we have a divine mandate to "earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints." (Jude 1:3)


The irony of the watchtower is, despite its false prophecies, it is itself a part of the fulfillment of prophecy:

2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. (2 Pet 2:1-3)

5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; and avoid such men as these.
6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 And just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected as regards the faith.
9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, as also that of those two came to be. (2 Tim 3:5-9)

Was it necessary for Charles Taze Russell to deny that he alone was not the "faithful and discreet slave" ? No. For example, Jesus said concerning the wishy-washy Jews: "With whom shall I compare this generation? It is like young children sitting in the marketplaces who cry out to their playmates, saying, ‘We played the flute for you, but you did not dance; we wailed, but you did not beat yourselves in grief.’ Correspondingly, John came neither eating nor drinking, yet people say, ‘He has a demon’; the Son of man did come eating and drinking, still people say, ‘Look! A man gluttonous and given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ All the same, wisdom is proved righteous by its works.”(Matt 11:16-19; Luke 7:31-35)

Jesus never corrected the Jews wrong view of him nor of John the Baptist, but said that "wisdom is proved righteous by its works." He allowed the evidence to speak for itself, by its "works" to show that he was was not "a man gluttonous and given to drinking wine", but was a righteous man who originated from his heavenly Father, Jehovah and that showed himself as balanced with regard to food and drink.

People are always going to talk in this "system of things", making wrong suggestive comments without checking the facts. Too, because of hatred for Jehovah's Witnesses, some intentionally start a rumor that is unfounded.(John 15:18-20)

[Sojourner55]

Was it necessary for Charles Taze Russell to deny that he alone was not the "faithful and discreet slave" ? No. For example, Jesus said concerning the wishy-washy Jews: "With whom shall I compare this generation? It is like young children sitting in the marketplaces who cry out to their playmates, saying, ‘We played the flute for you, but you did not dance; we wailed, but you did not beat yourselves in grief.’ Correspondingly, John came neither eating nor drinking, yet people say, ‘He has a demon’; the Son of man did come eating and drinking, still people say, ‘Look! A man gluttonous and given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ All the same, wisdom is proved righteous by its works.”(Matt 11:16-19; Luke 7:31-35)

Jesus never corrected the Jews wrong view of him nor of John the Baptist, but said that "wisdom is proved righteous by its works." He allowed the evidence to speak for itself, by its "works" to show that he was was not "a man gluttonous and given to drinking wine", but was a righteous man who originated from his heavenly Father, Jehovah and that showed himself as balanced with regard to food and drink.

Spin it any way you want, guestman, but you're really grasping at straws in this attempt to defend your false prophet.

People are always going to talk in this "system of things", making wrong suggestive comments without checking the facts. Too, because of hatred for Jehovah's Witnesses, some intentionally start a rumor that is unfounded.(John 15:18-20)

I quoted Russell and Rutherford--that's about as factual as it gets. The history and self-incriminating words of your leaders do far more damage to the credibility and reputation of your organization than any perceived false allegations by outsiders ever could. You do speak a profound truth in one of things you said, however: the evidence does speak for itself.

[guestman]

I quoted Russell and Rutherford--that's about as factual as it gets. The history and self-incriminating words of your leaders do far more damage to the credibility and reputation of your organization than any perceived false allegations by outsiders ever could. You do speak a profound truth in one of things you said, however: the evidence does speak for itself.

The organization that Jehovah God established through his Son Jesus in the 1st century whereby apostasy set in after the death of the apostles (Matt 13:24-30), was prophetically spoken of as being reestablished in these "final part of the days."

Isaiah 2 says: "The thing that Isaiah the son of A´moz visioned concerning Judah and Jerusalem: And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore."(Isa 2:1-4)

Thus, the organization that God established would be reset "in the final part of the days", teaching how to be peace loving, having ' beaten their swords into plowshares', unlike the churches of Christendom.

Furthermore, the book of Isaiah gives a prophecy concerning the gradual purifying changes that God's organization would undergo during this time period: "Instead of the copper I shall bring in gold, and instead of the iron I shall bring in silver, and instead of the wood, copper, and instead of the stones, iron; and I will appoint peace as your overseers and righteousness as your task assigners."(Isa 60:17)

Accurate knowledge and understanding of the Bible would be gained during the "final part of the days" or "last days".(2 Tim 3:1) Psalms 97:11 says that "Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one, and rejoicing even for the ones upright in heart." Thence, the "truths" of the Bible would be unveiled during the time period we are living in.

In addition, Jesus also said that some who once followed him would leave him, describing them as an "evil servant" that would "begin to smite his fellowservants", eating and drinking with "confirmed drunkards".(Matt 24:48, 49) These would distort and twist words and expressions and truths to make it appear as if those who were loyally following Jesus were bad, crooked , deceivers.

As Jehovah's Witnesses, we expect this to be the "order of the day", for Paul wrote: "In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted."(2 Tim 3:12) Smear campaigns will continue until Jehovah God brings on the destruction of Babylon the Great (the worldwide empire of false religion) by means of the "wild beast" or all the political governments of the earth.(Rev 17:16, 17)

[Diggindeeper]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not all that pure and peaceful just because they refuse to have anything to do with things like the military.

For example, its common to use 'shunning' on members of your own household. For those who don't know about this, here's one link, which is one of many others that can be investigated.
http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html

[Sojourner55]

The organization that Jehovah God established through his Son Jesus in the 1st century whereby apostasy set in after the death of the apostles (Matt 13:24-30), was prophetically spoken of as being reestablished in these "final part of the days."

Isaiah 2 says: "The thing that Isaiah the son of A´moz visioned concerning Judah and Jerusalem: And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore."(Isa 2:1-4)

Thus, the organization that God established would be reset "in the final part of the days", teaching how to be peace loving, having ' beaten their swords into plowshares', unlike the churches of Christendom.

Furthermore, the book of Isaiah gives a prophecy concerning the gradual purifying changes that God's organization would undergo during this time period: "Instead of the copper I shall bring in gold, and instead of the iron I shall bring in silver, and instead of the wood, copper, and instead of the stones, iron; and I will appoint peace as your overseers and righteousness as your task assigners."(Isa 60:17)

Accurate knowledge and understanding of the Bible would be gained during the "final part of the days" or "last days".(2 Tim 3:1) Psalms 97:11 says that "Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one, and rejoicing even for the ones upright in heart." Thence, the "truths" of the Bible would be unveiled during the time period we are living in.

In addition, Jesus also said that some who once followed him would leave him, describing them as an "evil servant" that would "begin to smite his fellowservants", eating and drinking with "confirmed drunkards".(Matt 24:48, 49) These would distort and twist words and expressions and truths to make it appear as if those who were loyally following Jesus were bad, crooked , deceivers.

As Jehovah's Witnesses, we expect this to be the "order of the day", for Paul wrote: "In fact, all those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted."(2 Tim 3:12) Smear campaigns will continue until Jehovah God brings on the destruction of Babylon the Great (the worldwide empire of false religion) by means of the "wild beast" or all the political governments of the earth.(Rev 17:16, 17)

Stop dodging the issue, guestman. Once more time: I quoted the words of Russell and Rutherford in citing their false teachings. Do you really consider that spreading lies about them? All the writings of these men published by the WTBTS are available for viewing today, and a matter of record. And the falsehoods within those writings are a damning indictment against those who falsely called themselves spokesmen for God.

There is no "smear campaign" in this. I provided a list of the false prophecies--exactly as they were communicated. Not only did Russell and Rutherford preach a false, prophetic timeline, they signed God's name to it! You cannot gloss over this heresy. Either own up to the errant teachings or provide evidence that the submitted quotes are not the words of these two men. In the meantime, don't expect anyone to trust in the doctrine of an organization that still holds these men up as honored founders. And for that matte, the testimony of any of its false "witnesses."

[guestman]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not all that pure and peaceful just because they refuse to have anything to do with things like the military.

For example, its common to use 'shunning' on members of your own household. For those who don't know about this, here's one link, which is one of many others that can be investigated.
http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html

It is apparent that Jesus words at Matthew 18:15-18 has little to no meaning, whereby he said that "if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."

How did the Jews deal with a "man of the nations" ? Jesus’ disciples hearing the words at Matthew 18:15-18 knew that their countrymen would not socialize with Gentiles. For example, the Samaritan woman told Jesus: "How is it that you, despite being a Jew, ask me for a drink, when I am a Sa·mar´i·tan woman?” (For Jews have no dealings with Sa·mar´i·tans.) "(John 4:9)

And concerning the Jews and the Romans, John 18:28 says: "Then they led Jesus from Ca´ia·phas to the governor’s palace. It was now early in the day. But they themselves did not enter into the governor’s palace, that they might not get defiled but might eat the passover." And Peter said to Cornelius: "You well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to join himself to or approach a man of another race."(Acts 10:28)

And they definitely avoided tax collectors, men who were born Jewish but who turned into misusers of the people. Jews avoided association with people of the nations, and they despised Jews who worked as Roman tax collectors. Hence, Jesus was advising the disciples that if the congregation rejected a sinner, they were to cease associating with him.

[Diggindeeper]

No, that is absolutely wrong! Of course that's how the people were treating others. Yes, they were. But Christ Jesus NEVER, NEVER shunned them! Rather he was know as 'a friend of sinners'. You did not go on to finish any of those stories, with the manner that Jesus showed us by example. For example, to the tax collector, Nicodemus, he looked up in that tree where that short little man was sitting, and he said to him, "Nicodemus, come down out of that tree. I'm coming to your house for tea!" And that lowly tax collector climbed down out of that tree and took Jesus to his home and his heart.

He showed everyone how to treat others. This cruel-hearted 'shunning' nonsense is only done by Jehovah's Witnesses and the FLDS and other cults.

[guestman]

Stop dodging the issue, guestman. Once more time: I quoted the words of Russell and Rutherford in citing their false teachings. Do you really consider that spreading lies about them? All the writings of these men published by the WTBTS are available for viewing today, and a matter of record. And the falsehoods within those writings are a damning indictment against those who falsely called themselves spokesmen for God.

There is no "smear campaign" in this. I provided a list of the false prophecies--exactly as they were communicated. Not only did Russell and Rutherford preach a false, prophetic timeline, they signed God's name to it! You cannot gloss over this heresy. Either own up to the errant teachings or provide evidence that the submitted quotes are not the words of these two men. In the meantime, don't expect anyone to trust in the doctrine of an organization that still holds these men up as honored founders. And for that matte, the testimony of any of its false "witnesses."

Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses have made mistakes in understanding prophetic statements or made statements that later proved to errant. But it need be remembered that Jesus disciples, his most trusted associates, also made mistakes in their infancy. For example, even after being with Jesus almost 3 1/2 years, these "were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly" when they were approaching Jerusalem.(Luke 19:11)

Then, just before his ascension to heaven, Acts 1:6 says: "When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” These failed to grasp that the "kingdom's" becoming operational was still yet far into the future, despite Jesus illustration that he gave at Luke 19:12-27.

Did you not read whereby the apostle Paul said that "we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with. When I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to think as a babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the [traits] of a babe. For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face."(1 Cor 13:10-12)

And have you not read whereby Jehovah God said that accurate knowledge and organizational understanding would be refined, saying: "Instead of the copper I shall bring in gold, and instead of the iron I shall bring in silver, and instead of the wood, copper, and instead of the stones, iron; and I will appoint peace as your overseers and righteousness as your task assigners."(Isa 60:17)

And at Proverbs 4:18, it says: "But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established." However, what of the churches ? Have these made progression in understanding the Bible or have they continued to proclaim the same message ? Have the churches ' beaten their swords into plowshares and spears into pruning shears", learning "war no more" ?(Isa 2:4) Have these learned to be "no part of the world" (John 15:19), not mingling in with the political arena or greedy commercialism ?

Has the Book of Revelation been unveiled to them, grasping who "Babylon the great " is at Revelation 17:5 or who the "seven kings" are at Revelation 17:10 ? What about Genesis 3:15 and the "seed of the woman" ?

Or of Ezekiel 47, in which the "waters" from under the "House" or "sanctuary" start out at ankle deep (verse 3) but progress to a raging "torrent".(verse 5) ? This Scripture depicts that accurate knowledge of the Bible will be gradual till it is a "torrent" in these "last days", "getting lighter and lighter" for God's people. As with a babe, it's first steps are unstable and wobbly. It will fall down but gets up and over time, learns to become more balance till it ' becomes a man'.

At the end of these "last days" (2 Tim 3:1), an accurate understanding in both knowledge and organization of the Bible has reached a zenith for Jehovah's Witnesses.

[guestman]

No, that is absolutely wrong! Of course that's how the people were treating others. Yes, they were. But Christ Jesus NEVER, NEVER shunned them! Rather he was know as 'a friend of sinners'. You did not go on to finish any of those stories, with the manner that Jesus showed us by example. For example, to the tax collector, Nicodemus, he looked up in that tree where that short little man was sitting, and he said to him, "Nicodemus, come down out of that tree. I'm coming to your house for tea!" And that lowly tax collector climbed down out of that tree and took Jesus to his home and his heart.

He showed everyone how to treat others. This cruel-hearted 'shunning' nonsense is only done by Jehovah's Witnesses and the FLDS and other cults.

You fail to grasp that Jesus was referring to those within the Christian congregation at Matthew 18:17, saying: "If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation ("to the ecclesia" (assembly)", and not those of the "world", in which he took an active role in reaching out to them.(Luke 8:1; John 3:17)

If those within the Christian congregation failed in adhering closely to God's word, crossing moral boundaries laid down by Jehovah God and yet was unrepentant, these were then to be "just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."(Matt 18:18)

The apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthian congregation concerning a man who had committed fornication with the wife of his father (apparently his father had remarried).(1 Cor 5:1) Paul wrote: "In my letter I wrote you to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world. But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”(1 Cor 5:9-13)