Article: As a Little Child

[Redeemed by Grace]

And they were bringing children to Him so that He might lay hands on them; and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, "Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it at all." (Mark 10:13-15)

What did Jesus mean by this? What are the qualities and attributes children possess that God expects and requires in His people? There are a number of them, but three in particular seem to stand out more prominently.

I. Innocence.
…A child must learn things like hate, deceit, greed and covetousness. We are not born that way. So, how does a believer regain that original innocence?

I’ve been soft in my approach, hoping reasoning to our common position in Christ, but now need to call a more direct statement.

You are wrong here. All men are born sinners. No one has to be taught to be sinful. Every babe born, as mild and meek to us as they seem, are babes born in sin and natural to sin. They are selfish by nature.

Look above at the scriptures you quote SJ. Nowhere does Jesus declare that children are innocent. You are applying that understanding based not on the text, but on your life observations and desires.

One needs to be true to the text. We need to be as children... that is - we need to be dependent upon God. That we desire to learn, to be near, to be provided for, and be taught by God. This has nothing to do with a child being innocent. That would be self-righteousness.

I understand your desire to build a case that man has lost his innocence thus to be like a child, but that is not the way of salvation. The text is about child like dependance. Your post declares all men are born innocent [IE not guilty, sinless], as I've re-quoted above.

And again, you still miss my heart of instruction, but that's OK.

[kearth2001]

What does a child possess that experienced adults have abandoned?

Speaking from personal experience, I can recall too many times when I have given into temptations and excused away the guilty conscience that a child innocently experiences when they do something wrong. I accomplished this feat by applying the excuses my internal voice always readily provided to me, as to why it was okay to do this, or that, even though I knew from my conscience that I shouldn't have done, but at some point I was no longer bothered with having to excuse away the guilt after repeating the sin several times. Sound familiar...?

I even remember the first time I did this. I was tempted to utter a cuss word at the tender age of 10 or 11 (I lived a sheltered life) and I vividly recall the internal excuses I received. I had always thought I would be struck by lightning or something even worse if I uttered an expletive deletive, but my trusty internal voice provided me with the all the encouragement I needed to go ahead and do it, it assured me that I would not be struck by lightning! Sounds almost "Garden of Edenish", huh? Well, that was all the encouragement I needed, and I went ahead. After several more repetitions I was no longer bothered with thoughts of retribution or damnation for my sin.
I'll bet if you think back hard enough, you can recall the first time you had an experience like this with temptation, and your ultimately giving into the actual sin, whatever it was, huh?

An innocent child has not experienced this...yet, but at some point in all our lives we give into that first temptation and we apply that internal excuse so that we can avoid that pesky guilty conscience. At that point the statement that Jesus made no longer applies to us...

The good news is that you can return to that childlike state as a born again Christian. All you have to do is accept the Holy Spirit into your heart, stop listening to that old internal voice at times of temptation (repent), and follow your conscience instead as you once did as a child, which I have come to believe is the Holy Spirit's way of communicating His will to us where the avoidance of sin is concerned.

Hope this helps...

God Bless and keep you...
Mike

[kearth2001]

Howdy Sj,

Not to get lost though, is that a child, no matter how old, as with growing into an adult, is not born in innocence, but born in sin. The purpose of Jesus' focus on children is dependance. A child is dependent on their parents as we are dependent on Christ. A child, as hard as it is to say as a mother holds a sweet babe in her arms, is just as guilty of sin as an adult.

Again just to clarify that innocence is not what Jesus was saying that a child is.

Redeemed,
I couldn't disagree more with your thinking here.

Jesus included salvation for innocent children when he said, ""Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it at all." (Mark 10:13-15)"

The point here is that once we as adults willingly excuse away our sins, we no longer serve God alone as do innocent children, but we are then servants of sin and the Bible is clear when it says;

Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

Once we become servants of sin, we are required to repent and through a sincere rebirth in the Holy Spirit, we can return to our childlike nature, as Jesus was discussing, and once again serve God alone, and can once again follow the Holy Spirits guidance through our conscience, wherever it leads us. That is where trust and faith comes in...

Salvation is no longer a difficult insurmountable proposition; Jesus ushered in the second covenant where the Holy Spirit, through the auspices of our clear conscience, will guide us through the "valley of the shadow of death", if we will just follow Him. Will we stumble and fall occasionally? Of course, but what we will no longer do is hide behind our internal excuses where giving in to temptation is concerned and we will instead, follow our conscience and occasionally receive God's righteous chastisement when we slip up, just like innocent children do.

God Bless and keep...

Mike

[Redeemed by Grace]

Redeemed,
I couldn't disagree more with your thinking here.

Jesus included salvation for innocent children when he said, ""Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it at all." (Mark 10:13-15)"

The point here is that once we as adults willingly excuse away our sins, we no longer serve God alone as do innocent children, but we are then servants of sin and the Bible is clear when it says;

Matthew 6:24 "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

Once we become servants of sin, we are required to repent and through a sincere rebirth in the Holy Spirit, we can return to our childlike nature, as Jesus was discussing, and once again serve God alone, and can once again follow the Holy Spirits guidance through our conscience, wherever it leads us. That is where trust and faith comes in...

Salvation is no longer a difficult insurmountable proposition; Jesus ushered in the second covenant where the Holy Spirit, through the auspices of our clear conscience, will guide us through the "valley of the shadow of death", if we will just follow Him. Will we stumble and fall occasionally? Of course, but what we will no longer do is hide behind our internal excuses where giving in to temptation is concerned and we will instead, follow our conscience and occasionally receive God's righteous chastisement when we slip up, just like innocent children do.

God Bless and keep...

Mike

Hi Mike,

I know it's hard sometimes to separate what we feel or what we think scripture is stating from what it declares. The kingdom of God is "like". What is the 'like'? Innocence as Brother SJ55 is teaching? I'd state no, not at all, for all are born into sin, and sin is natural to all men. Thus as I have stated - that's reading that into the text. No child, no mater how young... is innocent of sin. We compare children to ourselves and say that they can't be held accountable for sin, for they haven't done much anything yet. However - only one babe was born innocent, that of Jesus Christ.

What I see Jesus showing here is child-like dependance. All children are dependent at birth. All children need to be taught. All children when young are taught right from wrong, not right to wrong. Jesus is stating that the kingdom of God is like children who need their parents, who need to learn, who are instructed, not that all children who die are within the kingdom of God... It could be so, but the text doesn't declare it as such -- so one can not teach that it is truth, only declare as a human hope. So I then differ with the characterization that Jesus declare that children are born innocent and thus are in the kingdom of God. For if that were true, than and you and SJ55 are saying is that all kids were born innocent, then become guilty of sin somewhere in life, then need to become innocent again, --saved as a babe - unsaved some time later that you haven't defined - and then maybe saved again if believe in Jesus..... and that just isn't scriptural.

Salvation of of the Lord and I trust in a holy and righteous God that He saves whoever He wills and if that includes young babes, then Praise God. But I for one can't teach universally that all children who die are saved, because babes are presumed to be innocent... because that is no where within the scriptures.

For His glory...

RbG

[Sojourner55]

Ah Redeemed,

If instead of "innocent," I had said that children were INNOCENT OF hate, greed, guile, selfishness, ulterior motives, etc., and that they had not yet learned these things, you probably would not have raised your objections.

That to me, exemplifies and accentuates the fact that the problem you have with the article relates to perception and semantics, rather than theological differences.

[Sojourner55]

Hello Mike,

Good insight. I believe little children--though born under the curse of sin, and in need of a Savior--truly exemplify in their pristine state, characteristics that the Lord both desires and requires in us as His adult children. And we can indeed regain those attributes as blood-washed, Spirit-filled saints in God's eternal kingdom.

[Redeemed by Grace]

Ah Redeemed,

If instead of "innocent," I had said that children were INNOCENT OF hate, greed, guile, selfishness, ulterior motives, etc., and that they had not yet learned these things, you probably would not have raised your objections.

That to me, exemplifies and accentuates the fact that the problem you have with the article relates to perception and semantics, rather than theological differences.

Hi SJ,

I'd like to agree with you but I just can't, for evidence speaks that even young kids are selfish, that they want what others have, and even as the news reports today - kill to get what they want. Learning to sin is not something a person has to do. It's natural. I wish it were different. Oh how many here can testify that they came to know Jesus at an early age because they knew that they were sinners before a holy God. I'm sure some would testify that they were 6 years old, I know a few folks who declare it was 4 years old. And I'm sure some would declare even younger, only if they saw their sin as being evil before a holy God.

So I don't see this as a semantics issue unless you are saying something different here. For all men have sinned, and all deserve the wages of sin, and that a babe is not born a non-sinner, being INNOCENT OF, but that children as scripture declares have a dependency on their parents for stuff: for learning, for eating, for relationship, for living actually.

Matthew 19:13 Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, "Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 "Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all."

[EmethAlethia]

Faith is not the issue in any of these passages. When looking at the passages that refer to "what children have" that gets them into the kingdom of heaven, NEVER is it "faith", but rather, it is ALWAYS, "Humility".

Mat 18:2 And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, 3 and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Remember the rules of interpretation, the verses with the more "Specific" statements, and interpretations, should be used to interpret the less specific. So, if a passage seems to be almost identical to another one, the one with the more specific details should be used in the interpretation over those that are less specific.

This is why when people say things like Jesus died on the Sabbath, and ignore a detail like, that Sabbath was a “High” day, which is listed in one account, we end up with good Friday rather than good Wednesday, even though Jesus stated that the sign he would give would be that the Son of Man would be three days AND three nights in the earth, as a sign that He was the messiah. How the heck you get three full days, and three full nights out of Friday night, Saturday day, and Saturday night, when He was out of the tomb "before dawn", on the first day of the week, I’ll never know.

If you take the less specific passages, without the clarification, Jesus was a false prophet and deserved death, and was no man’s Messiah. Taking the most specific passage, Jesus died on good Wednesday, and rose on Easter Saturday, at dusk, the start of the first day of the week.

Why is this important, because it is the same issue. It isn't "childlike faith" that saves anyone, It is childlike humility, specifically, BEFORE GOD, and before all authorities, that makes the difference. Child like, “faith”, is something that is mentioned nowhere in the scriptures.

But that is a separate issue from whether or not all children go to heaven, and why they go. Yes, ALL humans must humble themselves before God, as that little child humbled himself before Christ. That is a completely different issue from do all children go to heaven.

Interestingly, the issue of children being "saved" or going to heaven, is more an issue of "accountability" than it is one of sinlessness or deserving heaven. David stated, as a prophet of God, that he would go to his unborn child, in heaven. Those that have an issue with this either believe that David was not a prophet, or that David's child was somehow unique from all of the other children that never reached the "age of accountability". If God is “just” the same standards apply universally.
Most of us are familiar with the passage where it says, “He is of age, ask him.”.
Joh 9:21 but how he now sees, we do not know; or who opened his eyes, we do not know. Ask him; he is of age, he will speak for himself." 22 His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews; for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone confessed Him to be Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue. 23 For this reason his parents said, "He is of age; ask him."

At this time, and prior to it, those under the age of accountability were not responsible for their own actions. Their parents were. Can I state that this is what determines why David’s child was going to be with David, “In heaven” when David died with impunity? No. I am stating that both principles are scriptural, both are clearly taught, and that whatever God does for one individual of a specific qualification, to be just, He does for others in that same state. God is 100% consistent or He cannot be “Just”. Unless God is unjust and inconsistent, I can see no other possible conclusion.
Does that mean that I am not open to other conclusions? Of course not. This is the only view that I see, RIGHT NOW, that takes into account all that the word of God has to say, and makes God consistent. If you have a different understanding, teach me.