How do you justify slavery being in the old and new testaments?

[exodus]

(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT), (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT), (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT), (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB), (Ephesians 6:5 NLT), (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT), (Luke 12:47-48 NLT).....I guess what question is why is this even in the bible and what's it mean?

[slightlypuzzled]

(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT), (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT), (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT), (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB), (Ephesians 6:5 NLT), (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT), (Luke 12:47-48 NLT).....I guess what question is why is this even in the bible and what's it mean?

Basically, from the biblical view, it is not the owning of slaves but how you treated them. As you see, the master had to treat the slaves with kindness and love, and the slave was to reciprocate serving him faithfully.
It was only with the rise of Democratic ideals, and with some struggling over them, that people came to see slavery as an 'evil' under such. Now, I think it is an evil when you mistreat and physically abuse anyone...but then, I mean it under the older definitions of such terms not the 'newer' more politically correct.
It should be noted that Paul did not discourage slaves from finding their freedom lawfully; and he even pld for the release of Onesimus in the epistle addressed to Philemon.

[jayne]

Depends on what you mean by slavery. Are you talking about what mentioned in the law or the vile practice that took place in our nation and still takes place across the world? Because those are two different concepts.

Go and read the book of Philemon where Paul, from prison, told his friend that he could not treat his slave like a slave anymore, but his brother.

A few things.
(1) An Old Testament teaching: Exodus 21:16 – “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.”

(2) A New Testament teaching: 1 Timothy 1:8-10 – “But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,…”

(3) A commentary on what Biblical slavery was about: CLICK HERE

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated. Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery (Exodus 7-11). So, yes, the Bible does condemn some forms of slavery. At the same time, the Bible does seem to allow for other forms. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

[crawfish]

This is definitely a tough question, and it's almost impossible to come up with a completely satisfying answer, especially given the history of slavery in the U.S.

Personally, I think the bible is more concerned with more fundamental behavior - specifically, the humanization of other people. It doesn't work to change a practice or how people act, but it does seem to insist that the slave owner regard the slave as a human being rather than simply property. Later in the New Testament it even goes as far as to proclaim that the slave (Philemon) is equal in status to the slave owner as a brother to Paul and as a Christian. While the bible never bothers to condemn slavery, obeying the message makes slavery nearly impossible.

Think about it - legalized slavery is almost extinct from the world today (it only exists in one small country). The fundamental problems behind slavery, though - dehumanization of others, racial and social superiority, hatred and disdain for those not like you - are still a huge problem in the world today and still manage to manifest themselves into behavior every bit as unjust and evil as slavery.

In other words, God simply condemning slavery is akin to picketing your local gas station about the high price of gas. Attacking the symptom rather than the cause.

[crawfish]

Is this really an honest assessment of what the bible is doing? Surely we could say the same thing about adultery, for instance, yet the bible goes to brutal lengths to make it clear that adultery is wrong, going so far as to recommend adulterers be cruelly killed in incredibly painful ways. In all honesty it seems like it's people who are mostly concerned with the humanization of other people, and so ignore the de-humanizing parts of the bible that very much treat slaves, women, and children as property while at the same time picking out the good parts.

Lurker

I admit it's a bit more complicated than this, although I do stand by what I said. I'm also not suggesting that this is a general rule for every situation, there are certainly other goals and reasons. For instance, the overriding goal of much of the Torah is building a unique, separated community whose culture differentiates it. It's not always pretty.

[Reynolds357]

(Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT), (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT), (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT), (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB), (Ephesians 6:5 NLT), (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT), (Luke 12:47-48 NLT).....I guess what question is why is this even in the bible and what's it mean?

I do not justify, nor do I need to Justify anything in The Bible.

[crawfish]

If the goal was to build a unique, separated community why not simply do so by prohibiting slavery? As it stands the OT guidelines for slaves aren't all that different from other ANE cultures, wouldn't this have been a golden opportunity to set them apart from other cultures by not endorsing an obviously immoral practice?




Lurker

I can't answer with authority, IL. However, I think that "setting apart" was a process and not something that was being accomplished immediately through the law.

It was a different world. I'm not justifying slavery, but the truth is that around Moses' time frame it was the "free poor" who were at the bottom of the social status and not slaves. Those who did not have means and did not have a master would end up being completely dependent on the charity of strangers to live - this at a time when governments did not take on the role of caring for the poor.

Ridding Israel of slavery required a total reworking of their society. It was not going to be completed overnight. I know I'm not knowledgeable enough to say if it could have been done better or not. All I know is that much that is right with modern society is an indirect product of the process that turned Israel from their pre-law culture into what they eventually became.

[Bandit]

Hello all,

Just letting everyone know that this folder is for non-believers to ask questions of believers. If you are a non-believer, please resist the temptation to jump into a thread you did not start. But you are allowed to start a new thread to get answers from believers for any unanswered questions you may have.

Bandit

[Saved7]

Depends on what you mean by slavery. Are you talking about what mentioned in the law or the vile practice that took place in our nation and still takes place across the world? Because those are two different concepts.

Go and read the book of Philemon where Paul, from prison, told his friend that he could not treat his slave like a slave anymore, but his brother.

A few things.
(1) An Old Testament teaching: Exodus 21:16 – “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.”

(2) A New Testament teaching: 1 Timothy 1:8-10 – “But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,…”

(3) A commentary on what Biblical slavery was about: CLICK HERE

Well done Jayne.
I would add that basically slavery in the Bible was more often than not a case of employee by contract. And if by contract, they were bound by that contract until said duty was fulfilled. Of course there were other forms of slavery like taking someone against their will, these were called "men stealers" and it was a crime, I believe punishable by death.

[awestruckchild]

The answer is that it can't be justified.
It is not just to imprison men.
It just isn't.
But, God also said, I gave you some laws that were not good for you.
For instance, laws concerning divorce.
He gave them BECAUSE of the hardness of mens hearts,NOT because He approved of it or intended for it to be so from the beginning.
The laws concerning slaves would fall under the same category - not good for you but given because of the hardness of your hearts.

[awestruckchild]

Wow...apply all of that in spirit...
WOW!!!

[Reynolds357]

The answer is that it can't be justified.
It is not just to imprison men.
It just isn't.
But, God also said, I gave you some laws that were not good for you.
For instance, laws concerning divorce.
He gave them BECAUSE of the hardness of mens hearts,NOT because He approved of it or intended for it to be so from the beginning.
The laws concerning slaves would fall under the same category - not good for you but given because of the hardness of your hearts.

You are writing your morality into scripture. God allowed slavery. I personally do not care for slavery, and I do not want it to exist anywhere in the world. Having said that, God said what He said. God made concessions because of the hardness of mens heart, but He NEVER wrote sin into The Law. To say he did is simply screwed up theology.

[awestruckchild]

You are writing your morality into scripture. God allowed slavery. I personally do not care for slavery, and I do not want it to exist anywhere in the world. Having said that, God said what He said. God made concessions because of the hardness of mens heart, but He NEVER wrote sin into The Law. To say he did is simply screwed up theology.

I never said He wrote sin into the law....not sure where you think you found that in my post...
God ALLOWS a lot of things. One of the examples I used was laws concerning divorce.
He gave them laws concerning divorce even though this was not how He intended it to be from the beginning. Does this mean He "wrote sin into the law?"
Why did He give them laws concerning divorce?
Because of the hardness of their hearts.
Just to reiterate, I did NOT say that God "wrote sin into the law." Not even exactly sure what the phrase means, truthfully....
And I do not believe I am writing my morality into scripture. Does God want men to be in bondage? And if God gives laws concerning men who ARE in bondage to other men, does it mean He approves of the practice? Or does it mean that the hardness of mens hearts necessitated the laws?
God's law says do not murder. Does this mean He "wrote sin into the law?" Or did the law come BECAUSE of sin?
Maybe you need a bubble bath. It helps me when I am grumpy...

[NHL Fever]

Ya slavery in the bible was really indentured servitude. Slaves were actually in a pretty good position relative the majority at that time in society. Very few people were wealthy enough to have slaves. If you were poor but not indentured, you would most likely have suffered more than those who were.

I think it's worth mentioning that extremely religious Christians were both the first and the most influencing in driving slavery out of the western world. Specifically Lincoln in America and Wilberforce in Britain who eventually managed to outlaw it throughout the entire empire.

[awestruckchild]

Just in case anyone became confused by my post#11, it was in response to a post that has now been deleted. Would have deleted it so as to avoid confusion, but am not able to.