A very serious major doctrinal change after the apostles

[Slug1]

Yes I do :-)

Just another point so you understand where Im coming from, I dont think the demons are regurgitated, so when the third of the angels sinned and followed Satan, they were cast to earth, then when they were cast out, they were cast out into the pit, not cast out to enter another and cast out to enter another and cast out again to enter another, with it still happening today. So it took years to cast out however many demons there were, even if it was 2000 at a time on occasion.

Ya lost me

[boangry]

What’s the endgame? This discussion about Satan, whether he is in Hell now or free to roam the earth, may have some academic interest but as a practical matter, how do these views really differ? I was initially drawn into the discussion but over the last couple of days I’ve laid back, continuing to follow the discussion and giving the matter some thought. Now I’m scratching my head and wondering what it’s all about? I happen to believe that Satan is in Hell, based on passages like Rev. 10:10, but I have never said, nor do I believe, that his being in Hell means that he is “completely powerless over the world” or that he is prevented from doing anything in the world. Those are strawmen objections. Plenty of scriptures have been presented that show that Satan continues to exercise tremendous influence and power in the world today. I believe those scriptures. The question is not whether Satan exercises influence and power in the world, but how does he do it? The former question, I think, can be definitively answered from Scripture. Concerning the latter question, I think we can draw some general conclusions from scripture and can rule out some things that Satan cannot do, but in all these things we must exercise caution to only speak where the Bible speaks and to not be dogmatic where dogmatism is not warranted from Scripture.

In any case, I’m at a loss to understand what the hullabaloo is all about? Is there some other doctrinal issue that is at stake here or does the discussion have as much practical application as the answer to the burning question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I hear what your saying, and I realise the discussion is not really spiritual food of any type, maybe it needs dropped. There are of course benefits if the discussion goes well as light on one biblical subject seems to illuminate another subject, even subjects like Satan which people aren't particularly fond of. Also as Abraham is a pattern or a template for a man of faith, we can learn lots from his life, likewise I believe Satan is a pattern or a template for rebellion and sin which leads to death and I think there is a lot of practical application there also from the simple to the complex, for He that committeth sin is of the devil; 1john 3:8

[boangry]

Ya lost me

oh sorry, here is the timing of the demons coming to earth And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

now we have one third of the angels(demons) on earth during Christs life, when they were cast out of people, I believe they were cast into the pit, not into the air to quickly enter the next person, so the demons are dwindling in number till all are cast into the abyss

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2Pe 2:4 At the time of Peters writing none were spared so by roughly 55ad all the demons are in the pit

[Slug1]

oh sorry, here is the timing of the demons coming to earth And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

now we have one third of the angels(demons) on earth during Christs life, when they were cast out of people, I believe they were cast into the pit, not into the air to quickly enter the next person, so the demons are dwindling in number till all are cast into the abyss

OK... if I understand this properly, you are saying that when Jesus said he saw satan and his followers (1/3 of the angels) cast out of heaven, this was during Jesus' three year ministry leading to His death/resurrection?

If I have this wrong no problem and you can re-explain. I can ask you this however to help this situation... how does this scripture balance with what you did say that a demon cast out is cast out into the pit:

Matthew 12:43 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”

Here we can clearly see that what you did say concerning NOT being cast out into the air is not a proper understanding. The demon WAS cast out and it was into the air and it did move about and return. Does this help you understand better?

If not... you still will have to balance these Matthew scriptures with the verse you posted. Which one is it so I can see what other scriptures can be divided with it.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2Pe 2:4 At the time of Peters writing none were spared so by roughly 55ad all the demons are in the pit

Hooah... once we can balance and justify those other scriptures, then we can understand the 2 Peter 2 scriptures.

[Slug1]

I happen to believe that Satan is in Hell, based on passages like Rev. 10:10,

I know you meant 20:10

Rev 20:¹⁰ The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where^[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

When in history did this take place then?

This is an event that takes place after the return of Christ to the earth. So... historically, this scriptural event (Rev 20:10) has not happened yet.

but I have never said, nor do I believe, that his being in Hell means that he is “completely powerless over the world” or that he is prevented from doing anything in the world.

When you read Rev 20:10, they are tormented day and night forever and ever... so to say that this doesn't mean they are "powerless" or that he is not prevented from doing anything... doesn't make any sense.

Those are strawmen objections.

Not the strawman card

Plenty of scriptures have been presented that show that Satan continues to exercise tremendous influence and power in the world today. I believe those scriptures.

Hooah... thus the need to balance this with a belief that he's chained up.

The question is not whether Satan exercises influence and power in the world, but how does he do it?

He does this because Rev 20:10 hasn't happened yet?

He does this because plenty of scriptures tell us he freely roams around?

The former question, I think, can be definitively answered from Scripture. Concerning the latter question, I think we can draw some general conclusions from scripture and can rule out some things that Satan cannot do, but in all these things we must exercise caution to only speak where the Bible speaks and to not be dogmatic where dogmatism is not warranted from Scripture.

Hooah

In any case, I’m at a loss to understand what the hullabaloo is all about? Is there some other doctrinal issue that is at stake here or does the discussion have as much practical application as the answer to the burning question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

No salvation issue so nothing is lost in actually believing demons are still active today or not.

Just that any lack of belief is exactly what they want so they are free to do what they do... so there is "that" important consideration.

[Raybob]

no worries, can you answer this question... What was Satan created for?

I haven't found any scripture that tells us. If it were for us to know, I'm sure God would have said it somewhere in His word.

[boangry]

OK... if I understand this properly, you are saying that when Jesus said he saw satan and his followers (1/3 of the angels) cast out of heaven, this was during Jesus' three year ministry leading to His death/resurrection?

If I have this wrong no problem and you can re-explain. I can ask you this however to help this situation... how does this scripture balance with what you did say that a demon cast out is cast out into the pit:

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

I think the bold is telling us the timing, when Israel was with child.

Matthew 12:43 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. 44 Then he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order. 45 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”

Here we can clearly see that what you did say concerning NOT being cast out into the air is not a proper understanding. The demon WAS cast out and it was into the air and it did move about and return. Does this help you understand better?


If not... you still will have to balance these Matthew scriptures with the verse you posted. Which one is it so I can see what other scriptures can be divided with it.

I knew you were going to bring these verses up, ok so you will agree that the Lord is speaking to the Pharisee’s and He is speaking in parable.
Notice He is rebuking them for their unbelief, Israel will reject their messiah and He is describing the generation of Israel receiving judgment.

The man in the parable is Israel, the demon activity is concentrated towards Israel, when the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, this is describing all the demons being cast out and into the pit, they are passing through a dry arid(a place with no water) place finding no rest. This is the abyss, there is no water there, if they were cast out into the air, there is lots of water in our air or atmosphere.
This is Israel’s condition for nearly 2000yrs, empty, swept, and garnished, no demons to torment it until they are released.
The demon will return to its empty house(Israel) in the tribulation, and will return with seven other demons, this is signifying fullness, unbelieving Israel will suffer severe judgment in the tribulation.

Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Rev 9:7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Rev 9:8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Hooah... once we can balance and justify those other scriptures, then we can understand the 2 Peter 2 scriptures.

Anyway these verses seem to be in balance and make perfect sense with a literal view of the 2 Peter passage.

[Slug1]

unbelieving Israel will suffer severe judgment in the tribulation.

You conclude all your wrote with the quote above.

Are you saying that Israel will be worse off during the tribulation? More so than the rest of the world?

Anyway these verses seem to be in balance and make perfect sense with a literal view of the 2 Peter passage.

I don't agree.

v⁴ For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;

Based on only this single scripture all you say is balanced... which becomes unbalanced when other scriptures are divided. Here is why: If this scripture was balanced, then that would mean NO demons would have ever been cast out of people. The scripture, all by itself... means that demons would not be free to do what they do, they would simply be "in chains", "in darkness" and "waiting" for their judgement.

That cannot be in balanced with context of many other scriptures because we find that demons ARE in people which means they are not in chains, they are free to manipulate (cause medical problems, insanity, deafness, muteness etc), which means they are not in darkness but have been "TURNED = chained" to darkness due to their rebellion? Also check this scripture out:

Matthew 8:²⁸ When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes,^[a] there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. ²⁹ And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?” ³⁰ Now a good way off from them there was a herd of many swine feeding. ³¹ So the demons begged Him, saying, “If You cast us out, permit us to go away into the herd of swine.”

³² And He said to them, “Go.” So when they had come out, they went into the herd of swine. And suddenly the whole herd of swine ran violently down the steep place into the sea, and perished in the water.


Now... when 2 Peter 2:4 is ALL BY ITSELF, the Matthew 8 scriptures are UNbalanced. 2 Peter 2:4 says that the demons are in chains of darkness, and waiting judgment. The Matthew 8 scriptures show us that the demons are NOT chained as you say the 2 Peter 2:4 scriptures mean. You do mean that they are "HELD"... right?

Since we're on this 2 Peter 2:4, it is used in context of teaching about false prophets... do you agree?

When you read verse 1-3 prior to v4, we understand that Peter is explaining to us all that these false prophets, their FATE is already SET. They are ALREADY condemned to hell (v3)... THEN to drive this point HOME, Peter then shows this in relation to what is the FATE and condemnation for ALL those fallen angels. THEY ARE to be IN HELL and the point of this is said as Peter says it.

It doesn't mean that they are ALREADY in hell, because then that would also mean that all false prophets are ALREADY in hell as well. But they are NOT!! False prophets, just like demons are CONDEMNED and already chained to darkness but are FREE to do what they do UNTIL their judgement (see that final part of v4). In the meantime, they are ALL (false prophets and demons) completely chained to hell due to "their" darkness.

That is the context of the 2 Peter 2 scriptures... when you PULL v4 out of this proper context, it DOES mean what you've been saying and since this is not the PROPER context, we have this issue of NOT being in balance with other scriptures.

Does this help? I has hoping to wait till you saw how believing that demons are locked up in hell is not balanced with all these other scriptures before I talked about the context of the 2 Peter 2:4 verse.

[boangry]

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not
.
Yes I agree the focus is on false teachers, but the point being made is that we can be assured they will receive their just judgment and soon, and we can be reassured God will judge the false teachers that lead many to their doom, because we have three examples of where He has already judged.

One 2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Two 2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Three 2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

The context to me is they are already past judgements

Ill comment on the matt 8 account later (bit short on time)

[Slug1]

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not
.
Yes I agree the focus is on false teachers, but the point being made is that we can be assured they will receive their just judgment and soon, and we can be reassured God will judge the false teachers that lead many to their doom, because we have three examples of where He has already judged.

One 2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Two 2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Three 2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

The context to me is they are already past judgements

Ill comment on the matt 8 account later (bit short on time)

The bold underlined portion of v4 shows us that what you call "already judged"... hasn't happened yet in consummation. They are reserved, IOWs,... yet to happen.

This is the context of the verses, that for those who are false, are also reserved for judgement.

I wait for your understanding of the Matthew 8 scriptures.

I'm enjoying this thread now because I have to give a class on Deliverance/Spiritual warfare in the near future so this is no surprise that God has led this discussion and has allowed me to actually prep the class well in advance.

Like I've testified and you will not discuss... deliverance of demons continues today. Many are in need of being free of demonic oppressions and they cannot receive help from the very Body of Christ that has all the full authority in Christ to cast demons out.

So how does satan stop the Body of Christ from helping those who are demonized... make them believe that he don't have his forces oppressing people.

Anyway... Mt 8 is an interesting scripture!

[boangry]

It doesn't mean that they are ALREADY in hell, because then that would also mean that all false prophets are ALREADY in hell as well. But they are NOT!! False prophets, just like demons are CONDEMNED and already chained to darkness but are FREE to do what they do UNTIL their judgement (see that final part of v4). In the meantime, they are ALL (false prophets and demons) completely chained to hell due to "their" darkness.

That is the context of the 2 Peter 2 scriptures... when you PULL v4 out of this proper context, it DOES mean what you've been saying and since this is not the PROPER context, we have this issue of NOT being in balance with other scriptures.

Does this help? I has hoping to wait till you saw how believing that demons are locked up in hell is not balanced with all these other scriptures before I talked about the context of the 2 Peter 2:4 verse.

The bold underlined portion of v4 shows us that what you call "already judged"... hasn't happened yet in consummation. They are reserved, IOWs,... yet to happen.

This is the context of the verses, that for those who are false, are also reserved for judgement.

Ok, remember I said it seems like Im from another planet because I cant follow the thought, its happening again

Say I borrowed $5000 off you, and you are starting to wonder if Im going to pay you back, I say to you, Slug, dont worry mate I also borrowed money off another mate and Im going to pay him back soon... It doesnt make sense

Now because Im trust worthy you might be put at ease, but my reassurance isnt actually in the fact I have paid it back.
Now if I had another two mates that I have paid back, then I would say to you, Slug, mate Im going to pay you back like I always do, I paid back bill his 5000 and Tom back his 5000 dollars.

Again the context of 2 Peter is not the in the context that He will judge false teachers because He will judge the angels. It doesnt make sense.

The context is He will judge false teachers because He has judged the angels etc

Ok this is where Im starting to get lost, please read the whole verse;

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

the way I understand you is the angels that sinned are roaming around now, but in the future God will not spare them and cast them into chains of darkness, and this is not the judgement because they will still be reserved for judgement?

I know im missing something, you might have to re explain for me, thanks

Ok, the way I read the verse is they are cast down now and in bonds, and there(In the pit) they are to be reserved for Judgement, not running around reserved for judgement.

Just another point, Im already thinking we have a differing view on what the judgement is, I posted the verses where I think the demons are released on the great day of judgement, that is what they are reserved for!(sorry for rushed response, away out the door again now)

[Evangelist]

Certainly there are some of you who are not aware of the following:

Demonic possession ... refers to total possession of man's spirit (not his soul).
It is believed by many that since the Holy Spirit is in the spirits of born-again Christians, this case is not possible for them.

Demonic oppression ... refers to a demonic presence in man's soul (mind, will, emotions) and/or his body.
This case is very common indeed with all kinds of people, Christians and otherwise.

IMO, Smith Wigglesworth was God's greatest healing evangelist since NT times.
He often said that ALL sickness, disease, etc. was the result of Satan's involvement.
And he healed people of ALL conceivable sicknesses, diseases, etc. just by casting out one or more demons.
But, this certainly seems to be a very extreme statement indeed.
Probably he was including Satan's involvement in the Fall.

P.S. it is just like the Lord to choose to mightily use a man with a name like Wigglesworth!

[boangry]

Remember when I asked to explain this verse,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
You said

Great scripture considering this is a course of action and responsibility for church leadership to execute in protecting flocks FROM those who are in habitual sin and such sin is leaven in the congregation or to execute upon people preaching a false gospel within their congregation.

Paul executed this responsibility 3 times against three people preaching a false message and he booted them from the church. He also did this in relation to a situation concerning sexual immorality.

The reason for asking this question is in concern to the topic of our conversation. Which is Satan still roaming about devouring people or is he bound in the pit?
Ill cut a bit more to the chase; do you take this verse as literal or do you apply a metaphoric understanding to it?

When you boot someone out of your church is it handing them over to Satan who kills them? Yes there are people who think that after death the Christian they may be saved as one through the fire.
Or is it, as I believe sending them out into the world (yes I view the world as Satan’s world) that he may suffer the consequences of his rebellion, both physical and spiritual, and to be separated from a warm, loving association with the church. Under such distress, if there is a remnant of conscience remaining, the rogue Christian might well learn to destroy his fleshly urges, repent of his wrong doing and therefore the spirit may be saved?

Of course it goes without saying the Christian who we now deny fellowship with, knows that forgiveness will be given with genuine joy and love as soon as repentance occurs and he will be welcomed back into the fellowship.
I am making this easy for you; I take this verse as a metaphoric understanding do you agree?
If not I am all ears!

[Slug1]

Remember when I asked to explain this verse,
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
You said


The reason for asking this question is in concern to the topic of our conversation. Which is Satan still roaming about devouring people or is he bound in the pit?
Ill cut a bit more to the chase; do you take this verse as literal or do you apply a metaphoric understanding to it?

When you boot someone out of your church is it handing them over to Satan who kills them? Yes there are people who think that after death the Christian they may be saved as one through the fire.
Or is it, as I believe sending them out into the world (yes I view the world as Satan’s world) that he may suffer the consequences of his rebellion, both physical and spiritual, and to be separated from a warm, loving association with the church. Under such distress, if there is a remnant of conscience remaining, the rogue Christian might well learn to destroy his fleshly urges, repent of his wrong doing and therefore the spirit may be saved?

Of course it goes without saying the Christian who we now deny fellowship with, knows that forgiveness will be given with genuine joy and love as soon as repentance occurs and he will be welcomed back into the fellowship.
I am making this easy for you; I take this verse as a metaphoric understanding do you agree?
If not I am all ears!

Literal and the reason for that is because of the 1 Peter 5:7 scripture.

If it's not satan, then is it simply "circumstance" doing all you described as a result of this action of kicking a person, who has accepted Christ, out of the church due to unrepentant sin that is spreading to others in a congregation?

I actually agree with pretty much ALL you said except it is NOT a metaphorical "force" causing all that is done... there is NO fate, there is NO karma... it's satan and ALL his forces given the green light. You see, if a church leader is seeking God on SUCH a crucial form of disciplining of the church member to actually TURN them over to satan... then when God confirms to that PRAYING leader who is SEEKING His will... if it's to turn them over, satan HAS already been given the green light by God. If God has not already given the green light, when that church leader asked God what to do... it would NOT be to turn the person over to satan.

I have a devo about this topic that was once emailed to me and when I read it, I kinda laughed because what this author wrote (and I'll credit him at the end of the devo), I've written AS an answer to anyone in the past who asked what you just did, lemme go find it. Oh, I'll get to your other posts soon, I was on the road today for 10 hours and I'm not hitting to many posts tonight. Well, not many for me

Also... ask yourself... would Paul really order the surrendering over a person to satan if Paul understood that satan was metaphorical concerning looking for those to devour?

Turn this man over to what then?

No... satan roars and devours as the Bible teaches us.

-------------------------------------

Today's Prayer
Dear God, I am getting rid of my spiritual aches and pains. Please help me in this process as I seek to to submit fully to You, resist the devil, draw near to you, cleanse my hands, purify my heart, and repent of sin (James 4:7-9). I want to be humble before You, my God. My worth comes from You alone, not from what the world has to offer. All glory and honor to You, for You alone are worthy of praise. You alone can lift me up and give me abundant life and joy beyond comparison. Thank You, in Jesus' name. Amen.

---

Using Satan for God's Purposes
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 1, by Os Hillman
04-14-2012
"Hand this man over to satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord." - 1 Corinthians. 5:5
Paul encountered a believer who was involved in an incestuous relationship in the Corinthian church. This man was deluded by satan and was controlled by immorality. The man was unwilling to change his behavior, so Paul recommended to the church that tough actions be taken. He spiritually handed this man over to satan for the destruction of his flesh for the benefit of his soul. The idea is that the person will wallow in the pit of sin so long until it becomes detestable to him and he cries out for God's grace. We know this man was a Christian because only a Christian can be subjected to church discipline.
Have you ever known someone who was walking in disobedience and no matter how much you prayed he seemed oblivious to his sin? God has given one weapon to counter satan's schemes against those who fall prey to satan. That is, let satan have access to them fully so that their lives become so miserable they cry out to God for mercy. Probably few of us have ever had to pray this prayer. However, you should not be fearful of this prayer for any believer who is willingly walking in disobedience. This is love--tough love. There is a time and place for tough love. I have seen this principle work. God restores His children when His Body takes a stand against sin. It is not comfortable for those who take this action.
Do you know someone who needs tough love in his or her life right now? Ask God if it is time to pray the prayer that Paul prayed. "So that his spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord."

Today God Is First (TGIF) devotional message, Copyright by Os Hillman, Marketplace Leaders.