CAN A PERSON LOVE GOD WITHOUT OBEYING HIM ?

[HollyRock]

I am not talking about the occassional slip-ups that happens to all of us from time to time - but about people who habitually sin as a way of life and still claim to love God. " If you love me, you will keep my commandments " ~ Jesus ~

[Athanasius]

Jesus already answered your question...

[Ta-An]

I have said it so many times already here on the MB,,,, To me, OBEDIENCE is the highest form of Worship

[nimblewillsgrace]

I am not talking about the occassional slip-ups that happens to all of us from time to time - but about people who habitually sin as a way of life and still claim to love God. " If you love me, you will keep my commandments " ~ Jesus ~

His commandments according to first John are to Love him and our neighbors. So if we love Him we will love others. Too many have certain things that they believe a person has to do to show God their love. Go to church, pray, read their bibles. Jesus talked about visiting, feeding, clothing the least of these. I don't know anyone who don't love someone and I don't know anyone who loves like they should, including of course me. If a person says they love God and don't love others they are liars, according to the Bible.

[Mark F]

I am not talking about the occassional slip-ups that happens to all of us from time to time - but about people who habitually sin as a way of life and still claim to love God. " If you love me, you will keep my commandments " ~ Jesus ~

Isn't love a demonstration in action?

I love my wife, I don't always do the things that makes her happy with me, but when that happens, even if it is something that I wouldn't normally do (or don't do), I find that I want to learn to do the things that please her, because that what I ultimately to want to do.

Now if I were doing things always without regard or care if I hurt her badly very often will she think I love her even though I may say I do?

This is not difficult, the problem we have today is that people think liberty is a license to sin without consequence.

[Saved7]

Yes obedience to Him is love for him. When we're in love we are willing to do just about anything our beloved asks because we want to please them.

[PJW]

A man cannot disobey a God he loves.
Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." (Jo 14:15)

[keck553]

His commandments according to first John are to Love him and our neighbors. So if we love Him we will love others. Too many have certain things that they believe a person has to do to show God their love. Go to church, pray, read their bibles. Jesus talked about visiting, feeding, clothing the least of these. I don't know anyone who don't love someone and I don't know anyone who loves like they should, including of course me. If a person says they love God and don't love others they are liars, according to the Bible.

Just rememeber that "love God" and "love thy neighbor" is a compression of the Law. Therefore self effort in fulfilling these commandments is basically law-keeping.

[PJW]

Just rememeber that "love God" and "love thy neighbor" is a compression of the Law. Therefore self effort in fulfilling these commandments is basically law-keeping.

You should have included that the law is written in the hearts of men and that "the doers of the law, and not the hearers, shall be justified". (Rom 2:12-15)
If you still commit sin, you are under the law, "for by the law is the knowledge of sin". (Ro 3:20)

[Eyelog]

Just rememeber that "love God" and "love thy neighbor" is a compression of the Law. Therefore self effort in fulfilling these commandments is basically law-keeping.

Hi, Keck. I'm not sure what you mean by self-effort here, and what you are really saying overall. Would you mind explaining a bit more for my sake? Thanks.

[John 8:32]

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

[keck553]

You should have included that the law is written in the hearts of men and that "the doers of the law, and not the hearers, shall be justified". (Rom 2:12-15)
If you still commit sin, you are under the law, "for by the law is the knowledge of sin". (Ro 3:20)

The heart is just a metaphor for the mind. The mind does not operate without knowledge That is why Paul commands us to renew our minds. I haven't observed one person in all my life who has demonstrated God's laws are written on their hearts. Have you?

Unless you believe Christians are without sin. If you do, we have a problem. If you agree that Christians sin, then you've just put them all under the Law according to your application of Romans 3. Which is it?

[keck553]

Hi, Keck. I'm not sure what you mean by self-effort here, and what you are really saying overall. Would you mind explaining a bit more for my sake? Thanks.

"love God" and "love your neighbor" are Torah commandments, first summarized by a Pharisee named Hillel. But this is straying off the OP. Jesus speaks of commandments. He just didn't spring into existance around 30 AD and pop out a few commandments. He is the Lawgiver throughout all of Scripture. In the Garden. Wth Abraham. At Sinai. In His incarnation. We can't just operate with a small piece of Jesus. We need all of Him. Even the stuff we don't want to do.

[Eyelog]

"love God" and "love your neighbor" are Torah commandments, first summarized by a Pharisee named Hillel. But this is straying off the OP. Jesus speaks of commandments. He just didn't spring into existance around 30 AD and pop out a few commandments. He is the Lawgiver throughout all of Scripture. In the Garden. Wth Abraham. At Sinai. In His incarnation. We can't just operate with a small piece of Jesus. We need all of Him. Even the stuff we don't want to do.

Well said.

I was curious why you emphasized "self-effort" in the prior post. So I can see what you meant, please explain why you mentioned that there, and what you were implying. Thanks.

[keck553]

Well said.

I was curious why you emphasized "self-effort" in the prior post. So I can see what you meant, please explain why you mentioned that there, and what you were implying. Thanks.

Well, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment. Our outward obedience to God's Laws have been so marginalized by mainstream Christian doctrine (notibly charismatic doctrine) that I've actually been afraid to outwardly obey God for fear that I would be judged as a person doing a dead work by the very people who constantly say not to judge. It's a dichotemy actually; I've never really understood it. God says do, man says if you do as God says, it's insufficient. Insufficient for salvation? Perhaps! But insufficient to give glory and honor to the LORD? NO! Insufficient as a human expression of love, trust and faith that God means what He says? NO!

The very people who have bombarded others with accusations of me practicing legalism out of one side of their mouth tell them to obey two commandments given through Moses, but toss the rest out in the trash. God's Word doesn't belong in the 86 can, IMHO.

People say if I obey God's Law that I am under God's Law. Yet the same people cite God's Law as a measure of obedience with these two commandments. As if God is incapable of dispensing grace to someone faithfully trying to obey God. These (love God and love your neighbor) are from God., given to Moses. It's funny, people through two laws given to Moses out there, and in the same breath chastize someone for "following Moses."

In the end, we all have to make a crucial decision. Obey God as we know how, or obey men's doctrines. It's a blurred line, because I don't have a problem with doctrine within the bounds of say, the Westminster Chatechism. But all this hocus pocus stuff about instant sanctification, being sinless after being regenerated or "walking in the Spirit" without needing God's Word (even though it's part of our armor in Ephesians 6).....I have not witnessed much holiness from that.

When someone says "love God" and ignores the rest of God's commandments, I want to know two things from them - who defines "love" and how we are to love God. And when someone says "love your neighbor," I want to know the same from them who dispense with the rest of God's Laws - who defines that love, and how we are to love our neighbor. Not in vague non specific hypothetical terms, but solid applicable Biblical terms. It's all there. But for some reason people shy away from all those instructions for fear of being called "legalistic."